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J U S T
Aiden Price
Blake Williams
Goddamnit Staffenberg, all you had to do was pack the other bomb in the bag
Isaiah Cooper
this
Also, make sure the guy is fucking dead before you head back
Hunter Garcia
The whole thing kind of fucks with my head, they came so close to pulling it off. It's almost as if fate had intervened and spared Hitler's life. Like it was all some kind of movie and this was the big climax to Act I, but Hitler was too important a character to kill off so early. It's almost like he had plot armor.
James Rogers
Stauffenberg Putsch would've changed nothing even if it succeded. He wanted to negotiate a white peace while a lite-version of Nazi Party remained in power. This was never going to work, the Allies were dead-set on complete victory.
His act did however serve a useful purpose in West Germany's postwar attempt to push through a clean Wehrmacht myth.
Thomas Jackson
>West Germany's postwar attempt to push through a clean Wehrmacht myth
That was mostly the USA, in order to salvage Germany as a bulwark against USSR.
Isaiah Reyes
You should read about Georg Elser. Crazy bastard missed blowing up Hitler's entire inner circle and stopping the war before it could begin by less than ten minutes.
Adrian Ramirez
They would have stopped the killing of Hungarian Jews (the last major population of Jews in Nazi-occupied Europe that had been previously been largely spared from the Holocaust). Staffenberg in particular was horrified by the Final Solution. And I'm gonna guess the July 20th plotters would've eventually seen sense and given up long before Germany got utterly steamrolled. So the war ends in late 1944 or early 1945 and spares millions of lives that were lost in the final six months of the war.
Robert Morgan
Even if the coup had blown up in their faces. It still would have likely caused the disintegration of the Third Reich as Germany would have quickly fallen into a power struggle without Hitler's holding it all together and civil war ensues.
You might see previously pacifist resistance movements like the White Rose turn violent and mass defections of regular German soldiers, disillusioned with Nazi rule, to the Allies. Perhaps in large enough numbers to set up a co-belligerent army just as was the case with Italy.
In which case, this completely alters the post-war political climate. The societal burden of German war guilt is lessened significantly by the fact large numbers of German citizens took up arms against the Third Reich and the Allies are compelled to be far more lenient in their treatment of the German nation as a whole.
Aiden Roberts
You have to understand that this is post-Tehran. By this time the Allies pretty much planned out the post-war spheres of interest. The only offer of peace they'd accept would be that of unconditional surrender.
Also the Nazi leadership would absolutely have to go. It is questionable if Stauffenberg's group would have strength to deal with them, the SS, and with a half of Wehrmacht still loyal to the Nazi ideology. I reckon a little civil war inside Germany would occur following Hitler's assasination, which would only ease up Allied efforts.
Another thing. When it came to surrendering the Wehrmacht was split in two sides, those on the west and those on the east. The troops fighting the Western allies would've probably layed down their weapons, but those fighting against Soviets would most likely keep fighting. The Western allies would hardly accept a separate peace from the Germans, especially since they were bound by treaty with Stalin. If they pulled something behind Soviet back the Stalin would see it as a break of agreement and hell would break loose.
So the Germany was kinda fucked either way. Maybe the Jewish Question would be eased up a bit, but that's about it.
Angel Foster
White Rose was insignificant especially after Gestapo's crackdown, they'd never mobilize enough people for violent actions.
I agree that some kind of civil war would ensue, but that would only help the Allies to occupy Germany more easily and thus impose their will on it.
Connor Brown
No, both were doing this. West Germany wasn't really anti-Nazi until 1960s and Eichmann's trial. They were pushing the Clean Wehrmacht myth very hard. More, many politicians tried to declare that Waffen SS were also just normal soldiers.
Josiah Ortiz
>a little civil war inside Germany would occur following Hitler's assasination, which would only ease up Allied efforts.
A civil war would've been utterly devastating to the German war effort. Their already bloated and overextended forces would've rapidly begun to lose any remaining cohesiveness. Their war industry would've ground to a halt. It would have basically had the same effect as the Bolshevik revolution did on Russia's attempts to prosecute WW1.
>White Rose was insignificant especially after Gestapo's crackdown, they'd never mobilize enough people for violent actions.
That was because no one believed they really stood a chance at succeeding. If the Gestapo are swamped with attempting to deal with a mutinous army and military grade weapons suddenly become more easily accessible, that can change.
>would only help the Allies to occupy Germany more easily and thus impose their will on it.
I disagree on the latter. A driving force behind the Allied occupation of Germany was the narrative that Germany was too evil/dangerous to be left to its own devices and that it needed to be controlled to avoid another war.
Having a large number of veterans who fought free their own country of the Nazis' tyranny makes that narrative harder to maintain and might give post-war German leaders more political leverage to assert demands for greater independence.
Jason Baker
>Joseph Goebbels, Reinhard Heydrich, Rudolf Hess, Robert Ley, Alfred Rosenberg, Julius Streicher, August Frank, Hermann Esser and Heinrich Himmler
>all in the same room at the same time
>next to a bomb big enough to kill at least eight people
Holy shit you weren't kidding.
Also this is my favorite line from the wiki article:
>A little later Hitler had a different spin, saying, 'Now I am completely at peace! My leaving the Bürgerbräu earlier than usual is proof to me that Providence wants me to reach my goal.'
I can see why he'd feel that way, pretty incredible stuff.
Ryder Johnson
Allied would still smash into Germany regardless of who's fighting who. Especially the Soviets who didn't care about the "good German" bullshit and just wanted to get revenge and expand their future influence.
Cameron Garcia
ikr
If you look at photos of the bomb damage, it easily would have killed or incapacitated at least a hundred people. The building was basically gutted. Most if not, all of the Nazi hierarchy would have been among the dead/wounded.
The war might still go on because Germany's military leadership would still be intact, but it would have ideologically lost steam far more quickly. Especially if Germany opted for a more cautious strategy rather than an all-out Blitzkrieg across Western Europe. Without the spectacular successes of 1940 or Hitler's ever growing ambitions, Germany never has the confidence to attempt a full-scale invasion of the Soviet Union.
Blake White
Does anyone know of close assassination attempts on Stalin? I'd imagine more people would hate him more than hitler
Luis Russell
>It's almost as if fate had intervened and spared Hitler's life
Only to suffer the misery of watching Berlin fall around him. Thanks Jesus!
Christianity: 1
Thuleism: 0
Chase Russell
You know, I wonder when the exact moment was during the war where Hitler first realized he probably wasn't divinely ordained.
Jordan Turner
>November 16, 1931. Ogaryov met Stalin on the Ilyinka str. near house 5/2 and tried to pull out his gun, but was stopped by a member of pre-KGB.
>In early 1930-s, there was a society of people who called themselves "Klubok". Among the members there were military people, Enukidze, Peterson. There are mentions that there was an assassination attempt in the Kremlin library in January of 1935 done by Orlova-Pavlova, but Stalin was not hurt. Most of the people found connected to this, were executed.
>May 1, 1937. An unconfirmed version of an assassination attempt based solely on the fact that that day, Voroshilov (the Defense Commissar) actually had a gun in his gun holster, which he never had neither before nor after the day.
>French intelligence has some documents that Leutenant Danilov entered the Kremlin on March 11, 1938 using false documents and dressed as a pre-KGB type officer. He wanted to kill Stalin, and when he was being questioned after, he said that he was a member of a secret organization that had a goal to get the revenge for Tukhachevskiy's execution.
>Operation "Bear" Far Eastern's KGB chief, G.S.Lyushkov, desserted to Japan in 1938. The plan was to kill Stalin while he was bathing in Matsesta (in hot springs). The attempt failed because the terrorist group was shot at while they were crossing the border, three out of six people died.
>Another attempt by Japanese secret service was to put a bomb into the Lenin's Mausoleum such that it would explode on May 1, 1938 during the parade. The failure of both of these attempts is attributed to the information provided by a Soviet agent named Leo who was working in Manchuria.
>November 6, 1942. Dmitriev, a deserter, started firing a weapon at the government vehicle leaving the Kremlin. After making several shots, he was disarmed, no one died.
>German intelligence wanted to kill Stalin, Roosevelt, and Churchill during the Tehran Conference in 1943, but their plans failed because of leaked information.
Andrew Roberts
Lincoln Jenkins
West Germany still claimed Prussia and Silesia until the 80's from what I remember, they were big into a sort of soft nationalism
Jason Gonzalez
I think any such claims were surrendered to allow the unification.
James Sanders
>Another attempt by Japanese secret service was to put a bomb into the Lenin's Mausoleum such that it would explode on May 1, 1938 during the parade.
never not being absolute mad men
Brayden Miller
they official claims were taken back by SPD under Willy Brandt in the 70s to allow for better foreign policy with the East and get some deals with the GDR
Mason King
Thanks user
Henry Jackson
I wasn't expecting this to turn in a decent thread