Are Americans the Romans of our time?

Are the Americans ever going to fall apart like the Romans did though?

Hard to tell. But some political conflicts may occur until there is political reform

Quick question: Why don't burgers want universal healthcare?

You mean they're about to plunge into a series of brutal civil wars which will end with an establishment of a monarchy?

Too many fat people don't want to do shit by themselves would be getting free operations and then get fat again and redo it over and over until they keel over and die

It's the same reasons they have such loose gun laws despite the overwhelming majority wanting background checks and more - the establishment (mostly GOP) has perfected the methods of how to make people vote against their interests using media.

You're both fucking morons.

In no way whatsoever.

Lol no

Mind to explain this view?

No. US is a bastion of freedom and democracy, a beacon of light for oppressed peoples worldwide. Ancient Rome does not match that description.

I personally don't want to pay for every fat fuck chain smoker's hospital bills. We're simply too unhealthy for it.

USA is Carthage really. It's a sea power, seeks allies rather than subjects, expands cultural and economic influence, is a plutocracy. Most of the political elite are descendants of the early colonists. It's metropoly used to be a great power, but was in time overshadowed by the colony.

Not to mention how its rulers are also Mammon-worshipping Semites.

thanks for the hearty laugh

So, is Pizzagate actually about child sacrifices to Baal?

Without a doubt. No country or people ever stay on top forever.

Nope

Rome was an empire and you cannot juat call yourself a Roman or desperately want to immigrate there to follow the "Roman dream".

The British empire would be closer to Rome.

>>no political class that is both intelligent and cultured
Are you stupid, foreign, or both?

hurrr muh social justice abrahamic religion

hurr muh strong penalties for public corruption

hurr muh "good schools"

yeah no

>conquer shit loads of land
>subjugate and puppeteer everything else
>get flooded by retarded foreigners causing destabilization
>inflate currency
>impose arbitrary taxes and regulations to stave off collapse
>politicians repeatedly trying to consolidate power to fewer people

People also get deported now, pretty Roman.

>implying conquerland or puppeteering

Rome relied on annexations and puppets while the US relies on partners and allies.
Also, the US is not flooded by foreigners on the level that Rome was or modern day Europe is.

America didn't suddenly start existing 70 years ago with all 50 states and all its territories.
>not flooded with foreigners
>60% white

>hispanics
>not white

what matters is if someone is american or not
you don't need a certain ethnicity to be considered american

unlike rome

>mestizos and mulattos
>white

>Rome
>not black
You don't need a certain ethnicity to be considered Roman.

Spoken like a bonafide retard, hopefully you're a foreigner since that'd be thenonly excuse for your retardation.

What the fuck does any of your post have to do with the existence of a political class in the United States?

Background checks are already necessary for firearm purchase in America, m8.

Yeah the media establishment is so fond of Republicans

Many similarities.

Too big and too unhealthy at that. I'm sure you're familiar with America's obesity rates.

but if that means that universal healthcare is impractical at the national/federal level, why don't individual states enact their own healthcare programs? would this cause every fat fuck and person with a pre-existing condition to flood into that state?

Well, soon most of the inhabitans will speaking a romance language, so yes.
>You don't need a certain ethnicity to be considered Roman.
Ironically, he is correct, shitposting aside.
As long as you followed roman culture, you were cool.
Germanic downfall came from not culturo-religiously integrating snowniggers.

>be world power and a republic
>individual with prior fame rises up to become head of state on a populist platform
>constantly butting heads with optimates in Senate (and Congress as a whole)

and this is our Augustus

The one with the long dick is kinda hot

>Mexicans are America's Germans
for those reasons

>Soviet Union/Russia is America's Persia
large empire/centralized state whose dynasties and rulers may change, but is constantly a rival

the difference is that the US has much clearer divisions of power than Rome.

I'd unleash my Arminius on those Teutoberg Forests, if you get what I'm saying.

this is true, but considering the relations between those branches of government in recent years and the intense partisan polarization...has it ever been this bad/divided?

what I'm saying is, if Congress is seen as a detriment to the political process, a President with enough chess prowess and public support can spin a dictatorship-of-executive-orders as necessary to a paralyzed democracy

Any answer that isn't, "We do, we just can't get it," strays from the truth. Everybody wants universal healthcare. It's just a matter of getting it passed, which is impossible, since even the "left" party has moderates that are indiscernible from members of the "right" party.

Americans have communism
Rome had Christianism

But we haven't not-genocided jews.

Yes, it's been this bad and much worse. Andrew Jackson threatened to kill members of congress multiple times. Andrew Johnson had such a miserable relationship with congress that they spent their time searching for any reason to impeach him and nearly convicted. From the very beginning we've had factions in government that despised each other. Read up on the shit slinging between federalists and Democratic-Republicans. Hamilton and Jefferson served in the same cabinet and despised each other openly. Then there was that time that we had an actual civil war. Point is, we always have and always will be a divided nation full of competing ideas, but us becoming a dictatorship is impossible imo. A President can get away with overstepping their bounds a bit but they can't become an actual dictator.

Fuck off, America hasn't held hegemony for one hundred years and they're already becoming less powerful, pretty embarrassing.

>Any answer that isn't, "We do, we just can't get it," strays from the truth. Everybody wants universal healthcare.
Correct
>It's just a matter of getting it passed, which is impossible, since even the "left" party has moderates that are indiscernible from members of the "right" party.
Wrong. Everybody wants it, but many of us are skeptical about if it's economically and politically wise to try.

Rome never had global hegemony

wow thanks, congrats for making this far I guess

If so then who is their...

>Greece
>Egypt
>Parthia (Persia)
>Israel
>Carthage
>Gallia
>Britain

i dont know about 'falling apart' but we're most certainly going to lose our hegemonic status within the next 40 years.

Greece = England
Persia = China
Carthage = Soviet Union

>if an analogy isn't perfect then it's worthless!

i'd say persia(or more accurately the achaemenid empire) is the soviet union. both we're mostly land-based powers who controlled vast amounts of territory containing different peoples , and of course both we're eventually destroyed by an enemy they had been locked in conflict with for some time. carthage was a thalassocracy and mercantile society both of which are at odds with the USSR.

Rome never took Persia down so it could be either Russia or China

>many of us are skeptical about if it's economically and politically wise to try.
That's a sensible caution. But I'd like to ask, from where does this hesitation come?

From the idea's novelty? But universal healthcare has existed as a concept for a century and a half. From its lack of trial? But four or five dozen other countries practice universal healthcare. From its cost? But why can the largest economy in the world not pay the price while others, from England to Thailand, can? From its lack of perceived value? But what is the value of a life saved? From our country's size? But Russia has universal healthcare — though it's flawed, but who better than us to improve upon Russia's failings? From our country's population? But almost all of Europe has universal healthcare, with a combined population far greater than ours. From what, then? From what?

We have no reason to be cautious about universal healthcare. Universal healthcare has been proven effective in plenty of examples. Our people are dying and our nation is getting the reputation of a sick man. So I ask: from where does this caution come, if not from those who benefit from your hesitation? Can you say with certainty that you have not been influenced by arguments that base themselves not in reason, but in self-interest of a few individuals?

i was referring to greece
i.e. Greece vs. Achaemenids
USA vs. USSR
i

We do have background checks but people either
a.) acquire ghost guns through the Philippines and the black market
b.) give guns to people that didn't go through background checks
c.) fail to safely lock up their weapons

Most unhealthy people in America are fat fucks who want the public to pay for treatment instead of them not eating everything.

This.
I'd be fine with Universal Healthcare for problems not caused by the now-unhealthy individual's actions, things that could happen to anyone, responsible or not. But for obese fuckers, chainsmokers, drunks, streetracers, Etc., when something they do ends up getting them put into a hospital, even if it kills them, I think they don't deserve a dime out of the Tax-payer's pocket.
A little girl playing in her front yard and hit by a drunk? She should get something.
That same drunk after he crashed into a tree? Fuck off and die.
Am I wrong? Do you disagree?

America is like an inauthentic Chinese knockoff of Rome, complete with cheap carbon copied buildings.

They don't understand that all healthcare is rationed, and they don't understand they're choosing a rationing system that means they will not get healthcare.

If there were universal healthcare, legislators and magnates would make certain it worked, because they'd have to use it too. They have no reason to care about a functioning healthcare system right now.

Just wait, burgers will respond to this post by saying healthcare should be rationed, and go to the people first.

But America isn't Chinese, its American.

>they're choosing a rationing system that means they will not get healthcare.
But I do receive healthcare?

>If there were universal healthcare, legislators and magnates would make certain it worked, because they'd have to use it too. They have no reason to care about a functioning healthcare system right now.
Wealthy people get to skip the lines and get the best doctors pretty much everywhere. Even in full commie countries.
It's mostly the fact thay this country is full of niggers and other assorted flavors of scum that have no notion of being a responsible individual. There's just too much trash weighing us down, honestly.

>America is like an inauthentic Chinese knockoff of Rome
This. They even named their congress building "Capitol" (and the hill it resides upon Capitol Hill), after the original Capitoline Hill in Rome. It's like when they name a bootleg product something similar to the original to avoid copyright infringement.

romans where very intelligent people we dont live in the time period near that not even the soviets they were smarter as well just the time of retardation and the fall of our country

>But I do receive healthcare?

I don't know. Right now, an American might be rich enough to get it, might not.

With universal healthcare, you'd receive healthcare if you needed it.

>Wealthy people get to skip the lines and get the best doctors pretty much everywhere. Even in full commie countries.

Yes, they get to skip ahead of people who would benefit more from treatment.

I'm really sad the Federalists (And the later nationalists like Teddy Roosevelt and Lincoln) never got to complete their Civic Religion dream. The upper crust of society would be wearing a mixture between togas and business suits while we pray to Washington Deus Conotocaurious and offer incense to Lincoln.

>never got to complete their Civic Religion dream

You should visit America, they did. (R) or (D) is an important identity for those who follow them.

>Washington Deus Conotocaurious

No, they did not. For fuck's sake, the enormous statue of the goddess of our country had a plaque declaring the triumph of big business over virtue slapped on it by people who spat on the men who founded the country.

Another sensible objection. All of us get sick, and there's no preventing that. But it does feel wrong to pay for others' mistakes, especially if they could have been prevented merely by common sense.

Yet still I press, who among us does not make mistakes? The luckiest of us will make few life-threatening mistakes. But even now I am at my computer, neither fat nor fit, accumulating the gradual effects of prolonged sitting. My blood pressure is rising, my back is stiff, perhaps I'm developing carpal tunnel. Is this a mistake? As an adult, I am fully aware of the negative side effects that come with prolonged sitting. Does it change if I tell you I've been using computers since I was a child, before I was fully aware of their health effects? Am I still fully responsible?

What if it was another situation — I was a little careless bicycling home from work and ended up in a ditch. My fault, of course, but my fault alone? I had failed to get adequate sleep the night previous due to the baby's crying, and I was irritated from work due to an annoying co-worker. In any case, my mind wandered for a moment, and I pierced by calf on an upturned root. Am I to pay the medical bills alone? Does it change if there are no witnesses and I claim it was a hit and run? Does it change if it's not me, but you?

No accidents occur inside a vacuum. We all make mistakes, have lapses in judgment, and affect each other in ways that increase the risk of accidents. And on top of all this, we overestimate the extent to which we are immune to human error. A healthcare system that tries to assign fault in scenarios of life, death, and extreme cost is a healthcare system that does not work to the benefit of anyone. Decreasing the cost of universal healthcare by excluding those at fault just increases the cost of universal healthcare in other ways — in lawyers that argue fault and courts that decide. And when the freak accident happens to you, do you want to be denied coverage?

It might be hard to see if you are American, but America has one of the strongest Civic Religions on Earth. Maybe the strongest ever.

God I wish it was true, sadly it's not.

because it won't work. The reason we have the best healthcare is because it's market based.

>For fuck's sake, the enormous statue of the goddess of our country had a plaque declaring the triumph of big business over virtue slapped on it by people who spat on the men who founded the country.
?

You'd rather be arrested for posting here?

Niggers.
but seriously we have 20 trillion in debt, we have too many lazy worthless unhealthy people in this country that can't do basic thing like feed themselves.

This is bullshit. I am a classical liberal that has grown up in rural Georgia. I believe gun ownership to be an absolutely essential freedom to a populace. Even if an organized army of civilians would never win against the US military, armed uprisings are still a scary enough threat that a dictator would have a very difficult time starting a coup in today's america.

Rome shares a lot of similarities with the US, but Rome didn't come close to the hegemony that the US has militarily. The US is a unique beast when it comes to nation-states. The rise of the oligarchs to undermine the republic is pretty similar in theory, but how it is carried out is very different.

A lot of us do want universal healthcare, but to implement it would completely undermine the current system so it would be incredibly hard to enact on a national scale.

WE have background checks. The gop is saving us from ourselves. WE should have listened to them about Obamacare.

Id be the one doing the gassing.

The question on most American's minds, at least here in the Midwest, is not at all one of coverage or culpability or responsibility. It's the question of how do you deal with the people who abuse the system?

Why should my income go towards helping a junky whose just going to go out and keep using? Why should my income go towards helping a smoker who has no intention to quit because "lol I don't have to pay for treatment"? Why should my income be given to the 20+ million illegal immigrants? Thug niggers who hospitalize each other over turf wars?

The soft coastal liberals may think us cruel for not wanting to pay more than our fair share, but then when you're struggling to survive and are constantly abused by the government at all levels and the media, why would we not lash out? When we are the ones who have to foot the bill after the rich yet again shirk their responsibilities and the shrieking coastal leftists make us pick up the slack, why would you expect us to not be upset and declare that we don't want to pay up?

Obamacare was a complete trainwreck and it has soured the entire concept of universal healthcare in the Midwest. And why should we not feel soured about it? We had to pay far more money for far less than what we had before. The entire debate has, for years, been centered around fucking over the American taxpayer to fund insurance companies. Obamacare, Ryancare, Romneycare, when Slick Willy was in charge it was called Hillarycare, it's all the same.

In a perfect world obviously no one would be denied coverage, but then this world isn't perfect and if it were we could just operate off of a free market system because it's simpler. So until we get to live in a perfect world, how are you suggesting we weed out the people who abuse the system?

>muh people are too stupid to know whats good for them meme

Bullshit, you idiots wonder why you lose with your elitism. People vote gop because they are the party of low taxes and small government. Not all poor people want to be attached to the titty of government.

He's referring to the Statue of Liberty having "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to work for pennies in a sweatshop" put on the pedestal by Jewish anarchists.

Not to mention Trump and Friends are the only ones who aren't arguing for slapping a different name on the same "-care" garbage. As pointed out it's all the same, Hillarycare, Obamacare, Ryancare, Romneycare, etc. Rand Paul is the only one whose actually spoken out about this garbage.

Also,
>foreign slaves (immigrants) are are taking all the work from honest Romans who are now forced on the dole (SSDI, etc.)
>wealthy optimates oppose agrarian reform (immigration and trade reform) proposed by the populares to remedy this problem
>accuse populares reformers of violating ancient political traditions, being anti-Roman, etc.
>unabashedly assassinate reformer and tribune Tiberius Gracchus, ushering in a century of Roman political violence until Augustus solidifies power (n.b. character assassination has proven more effective and less controversial considering establishment control of the media, look how hard they've gone after Trump and other "populares" figures in this manner.)
>optimates pass modified versions of the populares' proposed reforms in attempts to allay the people's anger (Hillary: I'm against TPP, GOPe candidates: I want to restrict immigration too)
>political rivals beginning viciously attacking each other in the courts as soon as a person is out of office (Roman law prohibited lawsuits against holders of public office)
>cross-dressing scandal (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bona_Dea#Clodius_and_the_Bona_Dea_scandal)

Rand Paul should be president.

>British empire
Stop calling it that

Universal healthcare can work, I just don't think it can work within the context of the US. We have an absolute juggernaut in terms of lobbying power in the form of the insurance companies and big pharma. The system we have is really fucked up and Obamacare just made it worse for the middle class. It really helps out lower class people and that isn't entirely comprised of inner city niggers. My family is very poor and my mom was able to get coverage for the first time in many years. I make ~70k though and it absolutely fucked me. Really, they need to break up regional monopolies (let insurance agencies compete across state lines) and add provisions to keep hospitals from overcharging insurance companies. You don't need a fucking cat scan every time you go to the hospital. Also, you spend a metric shitload of money in the last couple of months of your life trying to keep your disease addled ass alive. I'd rather the insurance company just cut my family a check for 50,000$ and let me die peacefully in my bed. There are a lot of potential solutions, but it's extremely difficult to implement them because lobbiests on both sides will throw billions at congress to keep it the way it is.

>classical liberal
Stopped reading right there.

And by 'best healthcare', you mean 'every American can expect to pay less than anyone in the world, for more effective healthcare than anywhere in the world, for any condition they develop during their life'?

I'm left on social issues and centrist on economic ones. I don't have a better term for it. If I had said centrist, you would've just posted the "radical centrist" meme. I was just qualifying that I'm left leaning on a lot of social issues, but gun control is not a view that every liberal shares.

>they are the party of low taxes and small government

unironically this. anyone can be an american.