I was born 71 years ago. For 42 years, I've ruled as Spanish King, but for all these years...

wat. you realize that flanders and brabant remained catholic only because philip had these lands reconquered? the dutch revolt STARTED in flanders and brabant and spread north. it was the eternal walloon that remained catholic the whole time because the french lands of the low countries remained rural and dominated by a catholic nobility. it was the eternal walloon that collaborated with spanish officials to pacify the protestant rebels. fuck you, my man.

>french lands of the low countries
french speaking areas* i mean

not just flanders and brabant but also Overijssel, large parts of north and south holland remained catholic.

but also areas where iconoclastic outbreaks didn't occur and were majority catholic were forcibly calvinized by the dutch rebels.

But religión wasn't the primary issue at the beggining. It was the economic '''crisis''' or in other words the rise in the price of basic food, particularly cereals imported from the baltic, that suffered as a consequence of the war between Sweden and Denmark, whic started the fire.

This affected the lowest popular classes, peasants which were particularly spurred by sectarian calvinist propaganda to rebel against established 'old order' authority. Shitposting of the times. This then combined badly with the promulgation of the Trinitarian Edicts, the capture by English pirates of the salaries sent to pay for the Army of Flanders (which forced the Government in Brussels to levy taxes for it, which made the situation more incendiary), the complicated positiion of the nobility, in a a difficult equilibrium between the uproraring calvinist-agitated-shitposted peasant goys and the Royal Government in Brussels, and the terrible retarded management of the situation by Felipe II everytime by bait-clicking and sending in the Army of the Duke of Alba to start cucking people with a maze, at a time in which the flemish nobility had managed to take charge of the situtation and had proposed respect for freedom of cult under the Compromise of Breda, a political compromise that was well received by the Brussels Government of Margarita de Parma.

But then the Duke of Alba showed up, began cucking people left and right, hanging Egmont and Horn, levying new taxes, etc. Being "based" in /pol/ terminology.

Margarita pissed off, renounced as a result and things unravelled. Basically both sides ended up being hijacked by extremists that had been shilling for discord for a long time. "Based" calvinist fanatics with English backdoor shilling and support on one side, and the muh Pope, muh Inquisition, muh Imperial Authority on the other.

that's what i mean... let's face it, had the rebels suceeded, so-called Dutch """"""""""""""tolerance"""""""""""""" would have been anything but. Accommodating Catholics in the Dutch Republic was done out of exigencies, not out of humanitarian impulse. Granted, the regents of Holland were abnormally tolerant for those times, but if there were no Catholic threat you'd bet the Catholics would have been forcibly converted or persecuted outright as they were in England.

to clarify this post, I'm arguing against the user that said it wasn't a religious conflict. I argue that while on the surface it appeared that way, religious factors were always under the surface and another timeline may have seen factors that made persecution of catholics easily possibly. Indeed, there were plenty in the Dutch republic that wanted to persecute Catholics as it was

true, but these were historically poorer and rural regions, even moreso than artois, namur, liege and luxembourg (the first two being very productive wheat growers, iirc the bread basket of the lowlands as well as northern france) to the south if I'm not mistaken. The northern Catholic regions basically sat on their hands as the revolt unfolded and eventually got conquered by the Dutch relatively easily.

>It was the economic '''crisis''' or in other words the rise in the price of basic food, particularly cereals imported from the baltic, that suffered as a consequence of the war between Sweden and Denmark, whic started the fire.
true. but as you say yourself the calvinist ideology provided a powerful and potentially revolutionary counternarrative that was fuel for a revolt with a devoted following willing to carry it through to the end.

>his then combined badly...and the terrible retarded management of the situation by Felipe II everytime by bait-clicking and sending in the Army of the Duke of Alba to start cucking people with a maze
iirc philip sent troops not only to restore order but he had a more grandiose vision of stamping out protestantism and restoring the authority of the church. part of the administrative changes that the people in the low countries hated so much was the alignment of church boundaries with the provinces as a kind of centralization measure so that the inquisition could work more efficiently. I can be mixing things up though.

Anyway, I agree it probably didn't start religiously but as I say above the religious aspect cont.

cont.
kept it burning hotter and longer than it would have otherwise

also all the retarded shit that Parma did was usually on philip's direct orders. Parma himself was a pragmatist and was more than willing to compromise. iirc he himself never realized that egmont and horn would be executed.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimabara_Rebellion

...

>he

Alejandro Farnesio, Duke of Parma, wasn't even around there at the time.

The Governor was Margarita de Parma at the time. Yes she was willing to compromise with the nobility, but couldn't do shit but protest at the course of action when the Duke of Alba arrived and started being based.

>women rulers
Not even once

Good thread.

Stop right there, protestant scum, pay the Church an indulgence or serve your sentence, Your printed Bibles are now forfeit

Holy kek

You Protestants are all the same, all scripture and no tradition!

fuck off desu. the low countries had a succession of competent female rulers in the 16th century. Margarita did absolutely nothing wrong and it was the retard Philip II that forced her hand because of his abrasive ideological and absolutist program

maybe im thinking of parmas later actions vs the rebels, where he was pretty pragmatic i think