Would China have been able to industrialize under liberal capitalism, or are command economies the way for large...

what do you think China's future is?
I've always thought that as China's middle class continues to expand, and the wealth gap becomes less significant, that they would eventually move to a more democratic system. Probably not as much as the US but with fairer less authoritarian aspects to allow Culture to flourish as it does in times of great prosperity.

That's literally a western (((expert))) meme spouted by elites that can't possibly fathom another country becoming developed without emulating and worshiping the West.

The CPC will never allow democratization. They may throw in some meme elections for government officials but they will never move from a one-party state.

They will allow democracy if the situation becomes such that their chances of survival are better under democracy than otherwise. Which is unlikely, but not impossible.

Doesn't the government of China own all the banks and corporations?

Most of China are still rural peasants with dirt poor living conditions. People talk about how industrialized and modern China is, but that's only one segment of the population. You compare their national infrastructure to a real first world nation and it becomes apparent how big of a gap there is.

stop obsessing over jews you low IQ faggot

Pretty much all western countries industrialized with the help of significant government investment and/or intervention.

The problem with democratizing China is that it opens the door to pressure to allow hostile Tibet and Xinjiang to vote themselves to independence. It would be Balkanization all over again, but this time in a region with a shitzillion people who have historically killed each other off in the tens of millions when central control breaks down.

If China had had liberal capitalism rather than communism, it might have been able to get economic aid from the US to be a powerful ally against the Soviet Union and communism in the Far East, rather than Japan. That would have been a huge boon.

China couldn't have progressed without the cultural revolution.

You can't be western capitalists when you're still wanking off to Confucius

Taiwan managed just fine with your bog standard military dictatorship, without the need for closing all the schools, driving the youth crazy and persecuting the educated class while smashing historical shit.

>Most of China are still rural peasants with dirt poor living conditions
This is literally untrue though. 60% of Chinese live in cities, and poverty is at like 6% of the nation.

I'm posting this from a small Chinese city, I just went through many towns and villages, it's not the west but it's not Africa tier or even India tier.

Much smaller with a much different cultural background, their cultural revolution was Japanisation then unJapanisation leaving them without any.

>China couldn't have progressed without the cultural revolution.
Wrong.

>You can't be western capitalists when you're still wanking off to Confucius
Still wrong.

You sure showed me!

China nowadays need reviving Confucianism more than ever, especially when facing the rampant degeneracy, promiscuity and carnalism from west.

Less Mao, less Marx, more Con, more Lao, more Mo, more Sun along with all other great Chinese philosophers.

Don't tell anyone but Maoism was already a huge revision of Marx. Marx wrote from an urbanite Jewish perspective. As such he despised the land and the peasantry. This was to be expected because the Talmud doesn't allow Jews to own land outside Israel. Marxism was as Jewish as Darwinism was British, the innate ideas of each people passing themselves as ideology. Now Marxism was a terrible fit for Russia, let alone China. They were huge peasant countries, that has none of the urbanite inclinations of the European Jewry. As such Chinese Marxism placed a huge emphasis on the peasantry, and was Marxist in name only. It's just a matter of time before they dumb the facade of Marxism for good.

Based Xi is bringing confucianism back

post pics, is it true that the Chinese countryside is comfy? Do people just sit around all day? inb4 you are living in Taipei

>rampant degeneracy, promiscuity and carnalism from west.
Ha, grow up Polly, you're living in a wonderland.
They're not "degenerate" like the west, the women don't really sleep around, some do, most don't, they don't have any of this gender bullshit like in the west, they have a heavy focus on family, food and working.

Confucian values are the fucked up thing, obey everyone above, never question, what good is that for progress, it's what held China back for centuries.

Mao and Maoism is dead in China, Mao is just a figure to be invoked when you want your idea to get more legitimacy.

I don't take enough pictures. The countryside is kinda comfy, there are graves everywhere, huge hills everywhere, geographically fascinating, this is southern China I'm talking about, they put their graves in every hill. But then they have built ugly commie blocks everywhere, often alongside much older traditional housing, like in this image.

My phone is old and shit.

The rural people aren't doing much as they've already harvested, but they all have smart phones, so in China, everyone has a smart phone and they all watch dramas on their version of netflix, or play mobile gaming, even old people play mobile games.

Everyone is friendly, most of the food is nice, but a liquidated frog smoothie was too much for me.

If you dont mind me asking, is there a huge difference between the South and the North in China? Does it compare to, for example, the differences between South and North in the USA (for example, since they are roughly similar in geographical size)?

I haven't been north yet, but from what people say yes and no. The north eats noodles, not rice, they drink much more heavily (which must be heavy as everyone in china drinks heavy), including women, and they are more prone to aggression and starting fights, but these are stereotypes and theyre not much different really i guess. The real difference is the far west.

Northerner food is very salty rather than spicy, and they do drink considerably more. The further north you go, the more they drink. People in Heilongjiang drink the most.

Northerners eat Rice plenty, but it doesn't grow it's own rice. The climate isn't right for it. However, this also creates a positive stereotype that Southerners are harder working than Northerners, because growing wheat is much less skills intensive than growing rice, and therefore growing rice cultivates a better work ethic.

t. Northerner

>therefore growing rice cultivates a better work ethic.
I heard southern Chinese are notoriously good at business and people in SEA hate them for basically being the Jews of the Orient

he is right though

t. beijing native

I'm going to go to your Beijing tank museum and climb all over the Soviet armour you have.

Also where is the best place to see the Great Wall without many tourists and not reconstructed?

They are. Especially the Cantonese.

Sadly I've only been to Badaling, and that's the most reconstructed and touristy section of it. The "not reconstructed" parts of the great wall aren't actually that safe for navigation due to the poor maintenance, or alternatively are closed off to tourists altogether because of it.

South Korea, Japan and Taiwan are good examples of what market economies (with a dash of authoritarianism) can achieve.

Granted, China is massively bigger and the difficulties of managing that under a communist party would be greater but I firmly believe they could have had this modern China by 1980-1990 if they just let Deng be in charge after the civil war ended.

It could have been that way in a few decades had the students protesters not pulled the trigger on their demonstrations early and got the west to push China away.

I'll go to the other one i guess

How is your English so good, Chinese have bad grammar even when they're well acquainted with English.

>You can't be western capitalists when you're still wanking off to Confucius
>What is the entire rest of East Asia?

>rest of East Asia was colonized by Japan
>Meiji reformation tried to wipe out all Oriental influence and replace it with Western thought instead.
Point still stands. Though imo it's not that Confucian tradition is antithetical to modernization it's just would've gone away as consumerism and materialism replaced kind of like what's happening in America today.

Spent all of my teens bouncing between the US and China, learned english from native speakers before the age of 10.

whoops, meant for

Laissez faire != State capitalism != command economy

>were people with capitalist tendancies. Deng Xiaoping was one of them

Nice meme
In reality all historical records show that Deng simply enabled the already existing black market to become a grey market. He himself enacted few "capitalist" reforms. What he did was delegate authority to the prvinces, hence the winner and loser provinces today.

No. They own less than 20% of GDP.

Why the fuck do people think Taiwan 1950 and China 1950 were in similar positions? RoC literally took all the wealth and educated people from PRC.

What the fuck, no. Spain is a democratic country and regions voting for independence is illegal. Same in basically every other country. Only anglos allow regions to vote for independence and it's probably because they know the "No" will win anyways.

You have no idea how the Average Chinese (read: non-westerncucked Taiwanese or HK Chinks) view government.

They have this weird taste of being in favor of powerful, centralized, governments overseeing local government units that possess some degree of autonomy.

Liberal democracy seems, for them, as mob-rule. At best, the Chinese middle class might ask for is freedom of speech.

You can't have a democracy with 1.3 billion people. You just can't.

They live in parallel societies where they are the middle class and elite while the Malays are their nigger slaves. Success breeds jealousy.

>RoC literally took all the wealth and educated people from PRC.
Because the Communists created a society that persecuted wealth and education instead of employing it as a resource for the country. Then did it again in the Cultural Revolution.

"Democratic"

Look at all the scrubs in this thread calling oligarchy democratic. Ancient Athenians laugh at you.

Because in China, it's the local government that is perceived as the menace that needs to be reined in by Beijing. You even see local government officials attempting to stop people from travelling to Beijing to make their grievances known. Historically, China's worst times have been when central government control broke down.

This is completely alien to Americans who view Washington as a menace that needs to be opposed by local government. Historically, America has been suspicious of being ruled from afar.

Have you ever even read an article about Malaysia? The Malays are nowhere near being the slaves of the Chinese.

It's the democracy that exists, like it or not. If the chinese get more "democratic" secessionism becoming stronger is the last of their concerns.

It'll be like Singapore or Japan a nominal democracy with one party calling the shots

No, it's simply not democratic.

So long as children are taught that Ancient Athens was the birthplace of democracy, and we continue to possess the works of men like Aristotle, that's a fact.

To call modern, western governments "democratic" is an act of dishonesty or ignorance. Play semantics all day long, but it is nothing more than an attempt to "we wuz" the Athenian glory, and take a dump on foreign nations that you feel aren't up to snuff.

If you want to applaud western governments, then just say you like systems that are broadly oligarchic. It's not difficult.

Oh fuck off.

Theyre catching up on infrastructure REAL FUCKING FAST. Theyve spent the entire recession pumping gigantic amounts of government money and their overproduction into huge mega infrastructure projects. They now have huge systems of ultramodern highways bridges and highspeed railway and its only going to get better over the years. Dont talk about things you dont know

Senpai... Confucius worship became heavily in the elite classes as early as 1895 with japans defeat of china and definitively during the May 5 movment in the early 1920s. By then most jad recognized that confucius was not contributing but even holding back China from internal weakness and defending against predatory imperialism

Under heavy scrutiny*

they control sectors of the economy in state-owned-enterprises.
>As of 2011, 35% of business activity and 43% of profits in the People's Republic of China resulted from companies in which the state owned a majority interest.

I made this argument in a political science essay once, I received a B-. Fucking bald twat.

Back to /pol/. Your characterization of marx is fucking laughable. He was never raised jewish. His father had converted to christianity to enter the prussian state bureaucracy and he never looked back. Marx was raised christian and NEVER READ THE FUCKING TALMUD. Did you get thst drivel from /pol/?

And besides all this he wrote an influential and decidedly antisemitic work (on the jewish question) and you have the gall to say he was jewish or had some innate unprovable jewish thinking in his mind? Its childish. And to say that russia, too, was a peasant society and not industrializig extremely fast by the early 1900s is also laugghable. The russian revolution was launched in industrial cities of petrograd and moscow not bumfucl farmville

Iirc only 25% of Athenian males could vote in the period of broadest sufferage. They had tons of resident aliens and slaves.

>Mao and Maoism is dead in China, Mao is just a figure to be invoked when you want your idea to get more legitimacy.

You forgot one thing. Any guy serious about Maoism gets cracked down on pretty fast and hard.

India..?

Hes not wrong though. Democracy today is more about tranparency, fair elections, responsive government to problems of the general population, the rule of law and protection of civil liberties than it does actual people power as it was in Athens. To me its a really dishonest appropriation of the word and a deflection from the fact we are ruled bu an oligarchy aka representative democracy where people in fact are kept in check by funneling them theough political machines

>implying India isn't just democratic in name only
Indias just a corrupt bureaucracy

Politicians dont even pretend to 'represent' the people in practice. They almost always lie to them and pursue their interest within a framework of rules laid down for them. Theu take funding never from the people but through organized economoc interest in order to biu off voters through dramatic electoral spectacle or flasy production values.

Meant for you.
Tldr democracy while arguably having a new meaning in rhe modern era is a now word that is so twisted from its original meaning that it can onlt be interpreted as propaganda to say that our modern political system fits it.

Don`t forget their Christian population is gorwing.

The vast majority of Chinese are still a blend of atheist and following ancient Chinese folk superstition though. It's a blip on the radar.

I'd say it's more that the biggest fear of the Chinese is not tyranny, but chaos. Every time China falls into chaos tens of millions end up dying in civil wars, famines, or just random bullshit. A strong central government is seen as the best protection against chaos and regional rebellions.

Keep in mind rebellions in China have happened over dumb shit like the price of bamboo poles, a failed student who thought he was the brother of Jesus, and a religious cult starting anti-government protests. Kinda puts into perspective why China is so intolerant of religions being politically involved.

Lastly, liberal democracy fell out of favor with Chinese intelligentsia following the May Fourth movement in 1919. Britain handing Shandong to Japan caused the educated classes to view the West and the liberal democracy it embodied with suspicion. This was further cemented after Japan invaded in 1931, and the liberal democracies in the League of Nations sat on their hands. However, China was able to obtain support from both Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia.