Why is it that the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest is so talked about amongst Roman historians...

Why is it that the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest is so talked about amongst Roman historians, but not the campaign Germanicus did after in response?

Because Germanicus's campaign was just another Roman punitive campaign where the Legions marched into Barbarian lands, fucked shit up, and left with a stern reminder to keep the fuck away.

Teutoberg forest was the largest single total defeat until the crisis of the third century, and halted Roman expansion to the Rhine. Augustus could read a map and figure out that the Rhine and the Danube would make a great natural border and shorten the frontier that needed to be defended.

Because it is very rare for 3 legions to be lost in a single campaign. To put it into context, the loss of 3 legions and associated auxiliaries represented a total wipeout of 10% of the entire Roman army. It's the equivalent of 200,000 American soldiers being sent into the Iraqi desert and only 400 coming back to tell the rest of the world what had happened.

>ugustus could read a map and figure out that the Rhine and the Danube would make a great natural border and shorten the frontier that needed to be defended.

This is a frequently commonly held myth. Romans did not have accurate maps, particularly of the Barbaricum beyond the frontiers. They mostly relied on itineraries, lists of destinations on the road networks with distances between them. Actual maps were incredibly distorted and were of no real use for military planning.

Writers like Luttwak who wrote the "Grand Strategy of the Roman Empire" had their arguments completely demolished over the past 50 years. Romans really did not have the capability, or even the conceptual knowledge to know exactly where their frontiers should be on a macro scale.

>Germanic prince raised as a Roman, who is now a a fairly high rank in the Roman army leading his own auxilia, uses all of his tactical knowledge, fair bit of luck and advantageous time of year+ terrain to completely fuck up 3 legions led by a chucklefuck who wanted to pull off another Gaul, but forgot he wasn't Caesar

>AYOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOL UP!

>10 years later Caesar's step grandson crosses the Rhine, and brings the fucking hammer down so hard, Tiberius shits himself and calls him back

>b-b-bu-but we wuz?

I'm pretty sure both Cannae and Carrahe were far worse then Tetuoberg.

>waaah waaaah why do ebil germanics destroy our beautiful peaceful and powerful empire so?
-we wuz caesars 300 yesrs later

The frontier was already at the Rhine, the problem is theres a patch of land between the Danube and the Rhine that was like a "barbarian alley", very difficult to defend and that's where barbarian hordes were want to push through.

The goal of the Germanic campaign was to move the frontier to the Elbe, which would have shortened it by hundreds of miles and proven far more defensible. Alas, the incident at Teutoborg permanently crippled that dream.

when you are german you take every victory, and they are few, to brag about it

and?
Different time and far less strategic consequences. Casualties is not the only thing that matters.

>the campaign Germanicus
Did it really matter? Did it had lasting consequences? Or was it just a save face show by doing anoter punitive expedition?

>This is a frequently commonly held myth. Romans did not have accurate maps, particularly of the Barbaricum beyond the frontiers. They mostly relied on itineraries, lists of destinations on the road networks with distances between them. Actual maps were incredibly distorted and were of no real use for military planning.
Not having accurate maps is incidental to having enemies who don't know how to build a bridge capable of funneling a large number of warriors over a large river like the Rhine.

In fact the bridge that Julius Caesar constructed and then tore right back down after he was done terrorizing Germanics threatening Gaul was the single largest structure constructed North of the alps at that point in history.

Romans may not have appreciated it on the macro scale, but they knew darn well that a river is a vastly more defensible than open ground

Because the Teutoburg Forest battle was a decisive strategic victory that stopped the Roman expansion into Germania.
The Germanicus expedition was just another punitive expedition.

>when you are german you take every victory, and they are few, to brag about it
Unlike the many great Victories the Gauls scored over the Romans.

I'm amazed there aren't daily "what if Hitler was Anaconda?" except with "what if Caesar was the commander at Teutoburg Forest?" threads as it is, really.

Actually, scratch that, that a pretty good food for thought. Caesar was in several very shitty situations with the enemy having pretty much ever possible advantage and still pulled it off.

How was Varus a chucklefuck? The choices he made weren't the best but they at least seem sensible and you can see the logic behind it.

I don't think changing general could have done much against treachery

Why didn't the Romans just burned the forests down???

for some reason Caesar had a penchant for sniffing out a trap

>less strategic consequences
>Carrhae

oh really?

yeah

Well it was not the Sassanids who brought down the Roman Empire.

Carrhae was the bigger defeat from a military point of view, but Teutoburg was worse from a strategic point of view.

Empire brought down itself

>"germanics" defeat the western roman empire which at that point was the periphery and less relevant part of the empire and already collapsing
>WE WUZ DESTROYERS OF ROME! WE DID IT ALL OURSELVES!

Empire degenerated by adopting weak jewcuck religion, then the heroic Germanic hordes did the rest. Epic justice.

it's funny since in essence Rome did to itself precisely the same thing Germany is doing right now

>implying Byzantine is Rome
>implying Byzantine matters

Actually modern Germany abandoned Christian faith, while ancient Rome adopted it.
Thats a difference

>Eastern Roman empire is not the Roman Empire
>it's not important despite the Roman emperors moving there all the real power and making it the de facto center of the empire

they both let a bunch of savages in without a fight

how can I tell you're from /pol/ and don't know much about history?

Byzantine was a degenerate cuck nation doing nothing at all besides slowly rotting away. They had a different language, a different religion and a different political system than classic Rome, thats why they are seen as a completely different entity.

Germans like to brag about repeatedly destroying Western Civilization, it's a mental defect they all share

Because defeat is something romans dwelled much more upon than victory.
Why do you know about Brennus but not the yearly genocides inflicted upon gauls for three fucking centuries afterwards?
Why do you know about Pyrrhus but not about the conquest of Epirus?
Why do you know about Hannibal's campaign in Italy but not about Carthage's defeats everywhere else?
Why do you know about Mithridates' carnage of civilians and auxiliaries but not the three ridiculous beatings he took from Rome?
Etc.

Roman historiography is basically a glorification of enemies, because victory is expected, but defeat is outrageous.

I never said it was only the Germanic invaders, even disregarding the Huns there were myriad internal reasons. But the Parthians/Sassanids played no significant role in bringing down either part of the Empire, Western or Eastern.

>a total wipeout of 10% of the entire Roman army. It's the equivalent of 200,000 American soldiers being sent into the Iraqi desert and only 400 coming back

dont you mean 180.000 goin back

>hey you shouldn't trust this arminius guy because his loyalties aren't very secure
>NAH FUCK IT LETS MARCH RIGHT INTO THE HEART OF GERMANIA NOTHING WILL GO WRONG

varus was a blithering retard that coasted off his family wealth, I would kill myself if i knew it meant another thousand years of torture and suffering for varus in the depths of hell.

the greek empire was nothing more than a rump state that survived because smart people managed to take the throne and extend it's lifeline despite the fact that it rotted away by the hour on the inside.

at that time, calling them all 'German" is not really correct, tons of different tribes lived in there, that would become Angles, Saxons, Franks and all the rest of the gang.

...

He meant 200k is 10% of all US armed forces, 400 is just an arbitrarily number to put into scale how few survivors there were.

But it doesn't look like that Varus had any major reason to suspect that Arminius at the time was a traitor who was plotting to backstab him. I mean Arminius was a Germanic by birth by auxiliaries were commonly used throughout the empire.

Germany now known for worldwide furry porn connoisseurs, they never change and are truly a barbaric and disgusting people.

Auxiliary is a grunt who learned how to take orders from a Roman.
Arminius was a fucking prince or Cherusci raised in Rome, taught how to lead an army like a Roman. He was a huge fucking liability being allowed to operate in Germania.

...

How exactly did Greek Empire matter?
They didn't achieve anything worthy of notice