How did Islam last for so long?

Oppressive monotheistic religions tend to be very stable, take Christianity for example.

It wasn't "incredibly oppressive". It was roughly as oppressive as what you could get under Catholicism, depending on the particular region and time period it could be more or less so. They valued literacy and science more than the Catholic Church did at the time, and they also had a conquering spirit which allowed them to introduce their way of life to pagans all across Africa and Asia, which was a superior way of life over what those less-developed people practiced.

What treasures here do Mammon's sons behold!
Yet know that all that which glitters is not gold.
Francis Quarles, Emblems, Book II. Emblem V.

well i know that to be true since im an ex moslem myself
youths has no interest in learning the teaching some dumb old arab warlord
sure Islam was enlightening,in the 7th century,in Arabia and during Jahiliyah

>which was a superior way of life over what those less-developed people practiced.
Might makes right, huh?

The Jahiliyah is a muslim meme.

Which is why, as a German, I am looking rather relaxed at the whole "muslim takeover" or whatever /pol/ wants to make people believe. Second and especially third generation immigrants are usually really different from their parent generations. Exceptions exist, obviously, but this is my general personal experience with these folks.

probably,i dont know
the arabs were barbaric anyways so it doesn't make much differences

Many people willingly converted because it was better to pay a small tax to your local Islamic leader and learn how to farm or work metals than it was sacrificing every third child to some random bone-wearing chieftan's sexual rituals.

Hans, its not the religious bit thats most worrying, its the demographics of Europe. Only the short-termist faggots of T_D look at just the terrorism angle, which in reality is basically a non-issue compared to the wider societal and demographic changes.

People enjoy having structure and dogma in their lives telling them what to do. If someone tells you what to do, you don't have to think for yourself. People in the west do the same thing just instead of religion it's reality television and celebrity worship.

As bad as Islam is TODAY, those exact same laws and systems were outright utopian compared to what the region was like before it.

8:22
"Without doubt, the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the deaf, the dumb, who do not use their ‘Aql’ (reason)"

They were actually fairly progressive in certain ways when they were introduced. They were also relatively consistent, practical, applicable, and not based on fiat. I could see the appeal for some. There's a sort of stability that the all-encompassing system of Islam offered to disparate groups.

I'm writing a paper about this exact topic, would appreciate any input on my theoretical approach and initial hypothesis:

-Pre-Islamic Arabia was tribalistic, but centers of commerce and pluralistic idol- or totem-worship existed in settled locations. These were "haram" or shrines, and Mecca was the biggest with reportedly over 200 major and minor gods worshiped side-by-side, and with rules governing peaceful interactions within city borders.

-Islam was a revolutionary religion that sought to outlaw and eradicate pagan idol-worship, but its leader, the Prophet Mohammad, did not seek to destroy the political structure of the shrine that existed with those idols. The Ummah actually usurped the use of shrine-sanctuaries as centers of commerce and worship, in order to harness the beliefs of pagan Arabs quickly and effectively.

-This is why several key elements of both the Islam "origin story" and Islamic law today share characteristics with a political system that existed for centuries before its arrival.

--Mohammad chose not to destroy the Quraysh and sack Mecca, less because he was a merciful victor and more because Mecca was a shrine-city with a protected status under pagan Arab convention, and he didn't want to alienate the rest of the peninsula

--Mohammad chose to destroy the idols within the Kaaba but not the Kaaba itself, rightly understanding that pagan Arabs had fluid beliefs about individual gods but very concrete conviction that there should be a place of worship and that existing places of worship were sacred.

--The early decision to reorient the direction of prayer away from Jerusalem, its original direction, to Mecca was less a product of tensions with Jewish or Christian allies, and more a decision to translate worship in a way intelligible to non-Abrahamic tribesmen that would form the bulk of Islam's early converts.

--Likewise, the hajj is a direct emulation of the yearly or semi-yearly excursions many nomadic tribes took to pre-Islamic Mecca.

> tfw china would be muslim right now if it wasnt for the european cockblocking them in south east asia

China probably wouldn't have been Moslem. China had Jesuits in its highest courts for decades and decades, and still never converted.

Because death to infidels, any anti islamism was murdered.

So it basically parallels Catholicism.
They fucking copied us.

islam is different
> first they establish trade connections
> then they become a sizable minority
> then they take over
> within a couple of decades the whole population is muslim
l

True religion of God.

>us
>posts an image of a false idol in his post

China is different anyone who comes into China becomes China. Plus, most everyone has caught on to the Moslem's insidious nature. The Balkans mostly avoided Islamization, as did Italy and Russia, despite having high Moslem populations. Anyone who lives with them basically hates them.
Western Europe may fall victim to this ploy, though, because they're ignorant

>Kizuna AI
>False Idol
She's a Virtual Idol

The Kaaba was made originally by prophet Adam and later rebuilt by Ibrahim and Ismael. The Kaaba was important.

when has this ever happened

SEA

It happened to the bulk of the territories taken in the initial Islamic expansion. Then most everyone caught on, and it stopped working.
It later happened in places like Albania, Turkey, and Bosnia.

>Complain that there is death penalty for adultery
>Reply that you need four perfect Muslim witnesses and no one has been executed except by confession
>Complain that you need four witnesses for rape
>Then complain about death penalty for rapists
>Instead fill prisons with rapists so they can be with other rapists and most of the time start raping as soon as they are released
Kafirs

It's mostly an excuse, because no one wants to be part of a hideous, horror vacuui culture that stinks like a thrift store

you forgot
>within a couple decades
which disqualifies all of those

4chanic hyperbole

When will the Dome of the Rock and the rest of Temple Mount be excavated?

Are you an Indonesian?

> the country with the biggest population of muslims is home to the largest buddhist temple

After the Great Crusade

We became muslim by marriage, people were animist and irreligious back then so the conversion was easy, and we got converted through marriager most of the time, the locals don't really mind. And if if the king is converted to Islam, the people followed him. Indonesian kings usually converted to Islam for trade and political power, pretty much the same reason why some Europeans converted to christianity

close

Malaysian then

> didnt mind
> Ibn Battuta travelled on to Samudra Pasai Sultanate in present-day Aceh, Northern Sumatra, where he notes in his travel log that the ruler of Samudra Pasai was a pious Muslim named Sultan Al-Malik Al-Zahir Jamal-ad-Din, who performed his religious duties with utmost zeal and often waged campaigns against animists in the region.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Battuta#Southeast_Asia

Muslims have been in china for a VERY LONG time.

One of China's most famous people in their history is the explorer Zheng He, was a Hui Muslim. Hui are a Muslim ethnic group in China. They look like pic related.

Its honestly pretty interesting reading about islamic history and seeing all the places they have been. I dont buy into the bullshit that they wait in the shadows for a chance to take over countries.

They converted a lot of people through trade and social policies. Islam tends to provide for the poor and its decentralization can be very attractive. Theirs a reason so much of the world is muslim without having any Arab in their blood.

Even though im Ex-Muslim, I respect Muslims a lot more than catholics. Compare the way spanish catholics "converted" mesoamerica to how Indonesia became muslim. The spanish raped and slaughtered the natives, completely uprooted their cultures, and destroyed nearly all their pagan artifacts. While Indonesia converted in order to become more trusted trading partners with the Islamic empires. The religion then naturally grew in Indonesia while they still maintained their history. If you go to indonesia it's filled with Buddhist statues and old monasteries. Also Iran took hundreds of years to become muslim, and Zorastrianism still exists in some pockets. Modern day Iranians still have their own unique genetic history.

Also look no further then the fact that their exists plenty of religious minorities in the Middle east, which has been dominated by muslims for thousands of years. These religion are all native to the land. While they used to have to pay jizya, they were still allowed to maintain their practice. Now again look at Europe. They follow a middle eastern religion and decimated nearly all traces (people and structures) of their native pagan religions.

So although im not religious, I sure as hell respect muslims a lot more then authentic christians.

wtf I love muhammad now

The spoiled arabs who stayed on Haram cities and slacked off, could't beat the Revonquista guys on Spain. Degeneration at its finest. You should be ashamed.

I was talking about the marriage, the locals didn't mind they they got converted through marriage

All religions copy one another user, but Islam perhaps more than others. Jesus is mentioned in the Qur'an as a prophet.

>Islam's law are incredibly oppressive and yet it survived for 1400 years.

Most places the arabs conquered saw a tax deduction, since the infidel tax was lower than the old roman taxes.
Arabs also gave free schooling to people who convert, so they can be better muslims.

Today islam is shit, since it didn't change much, but back in the day it was pretty good compared to the rest of the old world.

Because christianity developed from judaism, and islam developed from christianity

You have a very poor understanding on religious conversion and religious repression.
>They converted a lot of people through social policies
By social policies you mean when they didn't slaughter all the non believers they imposed the Jizya tax on them, forcing them to convert out of necessity. A tax that fueled their war machine and enabled them to conquer more land and oppress even more people.
>Catholics slaughter people and Muslims are good boys
That's a very narrow mindset and you're handpicking situations that suit your narrative. Both religions massacred non believers and extinguished their cultural heritage, tell me what happened to all the polytheistic beliefs in Berber Africa, Arabia, Syria. There are about as many Zoroastrians as there are neo-pagans so your point doesn't really makes sense.
>Indonesia converted in order to become more trusted trading partners with the Islamic empires.
Hungary, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Poland, Bohemia , Finland, Lithuania, all the Baltic states, Wallachia, Bulgaria, Moldavia, Kiev, Moscovy, Novgorod and many other principalities and kingdoms were pagans peacefully converted by the Christians, many did so to be more trusting trade partners. They still maintained their history and cultural heritage.

If you believe Europe is all the same you've clearly not seen much of it. If you believe that the whole reason why pagan worshiping grounds were abandoned was religion, you're very narrow minded. The population density in most of Europe is larger than in the middle east, and the urban population was higher than the rural population everywhere except maybe Russia. You didn't find secluded settlements of Perun worshipers because forests were cleared in order for cities to grow. Europe was also the main front for two world wars where global powers far more oppressive than the Christians and Muslims combined fucked over the countryside and the major cities, erasing tens of millions of lives from the face of the earth.

Islam is still growing. It will never stop because it's the true religion.

You people act like every other religion hasn't done it's fair share of oppression. Hell even the atheists have chipped in with it. The Bible/Hindu beliefs etc. all have just as much heinous stuff. It wasn't Muslims who enacted the Holocaust, or the Rape of Nanking, or were responsible for the Belgian Congo. If you say that those weren't caused by Christianity/Buddhism/Whatever, then stop saying every crap thing that has ever happened in a Muslim country was. The fact is all empires whether they be Roman or Ottoman or Mongol or Abbassid conquer and subjugate people, and they all use religion as one of their many methods of justification. The reason most Muslim countries are crap is because all the countries in their areas are crap regardless of religion. Christian Africa is shitty just like Muslim Africa.

Better question: Why are muslims so smelly?

>religions with vaguely similar starting conditions develop vaguely similar
Shocker.

Which Muslims? Arabs have had and still have better hygiene than most europeans.

The ones that live near me.

Islam preaches that cleanliness is a pillar of faith

Doesn't answer my question Ahmed.

Crime for apostasy is death, go figure

The question mark, the question mark, where is it whitey?

Oppression is actually good as long as you oppress the right things.

Um sweetie

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Crusades

Those were basically mainly against the schismatics.
Anything Balt related doesn't count, since they weren't sapient before Christianization.

Right here.

>Honest question. Islam's law are incredibly oppressive and yet it survived for 1400 years.
So is christians if you follow them.

Protip: No one follows them

The answer's right here: In other words: The smelliness of those people isn't caused by Islam. Maybe they're not muslims and you're too superficial to figure it out.

>We came down on them like a flood! We went out among their cities! We tore down the idol-temples, We shat on the Buddha's head! - al-Kashgari, Mahmud

WE WUZ PEACEFUL GUYS

Wtf, so many fallacies, what's wrong with Veeky Forums nowadays?

Crime for Apostasy is also death in Catholicism, it's just not enforced nowadays.

> Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius

Ayy.

Well, it should.

Different diet mainly. In the case of the oldest ones, they often don't shower every day. But the youngs mostly do so it's diet.

think of it like a virus, those viruses most potent and capable of spreading are most likely to show up in the subsequent generations (which we see the result of in the present around us - the pruning of the viruses that failed to spread only leaves those that collinized and spread)

islam is basically a mind virus, that infects it's host and violently compels the unfortunate host to spread and duplicate itself throughout the enivornment. it is violent, does not comprismise, expicitly tries to preventthe spread of other religions, up to and including killing the hosts of other viruses (other religious people)

it's a real world meme that went viral through violence, intolerance, and murder.

if we view religions like individual genes, then islam is simply that gene which was the fittest, that could adapt and spread throughout it's envirment the quickest, an destroy it's comeptitio

What virus actively works on killing the hosts of other viruses?

> tfw china would be muslim right now if it wasnt for the european cockblocking them in south east asia
What alternative reality are you from? Islam has already spread to China since 9th century, but both Chinese governments and Chinese society(regardless different dynasties) have never converted to Islam, ever. The major Chinese Muslims population still remain in western China.

Balkans mostly did it though I still wonder by Bosnia and Albania(and Kosovo) have such high muslim populations. It kinda makes sense in Albania since you can find a bunch of Albanian generals but Bosnia makes no sense considering Serbia had to have been taken over first.

SAVE THE GREAT LIBRARY

If I'm not wrong, there are more hui than uyghurs in China, they're Han who converted to Islam and mostly located in western and central China

I heard Bosnian themselves were not very christian and kinda heretic, so they easily accept another religion

>So based on our stands, Islam is very oppressive
>based on our stands

And therein your arguement collapses.

Yeah, but Hui are still ethnic minority(only around 11 millions people) which cannot represent whole Chinese society and government, and sometime they'll still call themselves Hui even if they're no longer muslims nowadays. Either way, they have nothing to do with European colonists in SE Asia, and Islam is never the official ideology and religion of Chinese state.

>comparing zorastrianism to neo-paganism

>le islam is particularly draconic maymay
Muslim empires were as "oppressive" as any other empire that existed for that time.

>The Jahiliyah is a muslim meme.
If you consider the fact that islam has fixed pre-islamic arabia which had tons of tribal fighting and infighting, degeneration of society, paganism (the bad type)

>By social policies you mean when they didn't slaughter all the non believers they imposed the Jizya tax on them, forcing them to convert out of necessity. A tax that fueled their war machine and enabled them to conquer more land and oppress even more people.
Way to show your bias and lack of understanding, retard.

Because Islam isn't more oppressive than any other religion. Punishment of apostates to death, Wearing the veil, Forbidding people to eat Pork, and even Sharia Law isn't something unique to Islam. The other religions have simply been repressed and castrated by Western Liberalism. Islam's values have only recently became morally incorrect because the West switched their religion from Christianity to Liberalism and Capitalism.

There are actually estimated to be more atheists in the Middle East than in the West (excluding the countries which hold vast atheist majorities), but they stay quiet because, you know, threat of death?

> what are the Northern Crusades
Also, Lithuania converted after being threatened with another crusade.

They then played tug of war between the Pope and Patriarch of Constantinople for years before converting (to delay the crusade).

>islam has fixed pre-islamic arabia which had tons of tribal fighting and infighting
...As opposed to the current situation?

True

Probably because it wasn't particularly oppressive.

Are fundamentalists larpers?

The Wahhabis are.