Who would win, Romans or Persians, if it wasn't for those rashidun caliphates?

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

Who would win, Romans or Persians, if it wasn't for those rashidun caliphates?

All urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Turkish_people

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

depend on which one collapses and rebuilds itself first

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

Byzantines. Persians were devastated more after the Byzantines destroyed their invading army. They should've launched an invasion into Mesopotamia and conquered the rest of Persia.

cum2soon
cum2soon

Romans because they had the black warrior on their side

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

Neither. Why do you think they kept fighting? Who would win between the USA and USSR? Pointless war and countless deaths would not make any meagre gains worth it. Why do you think anatolia and persia are now Muslim.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

Greeks and (F)ersians are equally sissy races

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

Byzantines
Then why was the "victorious" Heraclius unable to militarily dislodge Shahrabaraz's army from Syria or Egypt and directly avoided another battle because he decided to engage him more then a year after hostilities had already ceased in diplomatic talks?

hairygrape
hairygrape

persians
winning anything, ever

pick one.

Emberfire
Emberfire

Byzantium. Sassanids got BTFO hard on their last war, far far more devastating than what they did to the Byzantines
Probably long term hold over the region would have been unlikely, either the Sassanids would have been made a vassal state of sorts or destroyed/ some steppenigger would have invaded

Flameblow
Flameblow

This is now a feels thread.
The victorious conclusion of the war cemented Heraclius' position as one of history's most successful generals. He was hailed as "the new Scipio" for his six years of unbroken victories and for leading the Roman army where no Roman army had ever gone before.[64][144] The triumphal raising of the True Cross in the Hagia Sophia was a crowning moment in his achievements. Had Heraclius died then, he would have been recorded in history, in the words of the historian Norman Davies, as "the greatest Roman general since Julius Caesar".[64] Instead, he lived through the Arab invasions, losing battle after battle against their onslaught and tarnishing his reputation for victory. John Norwich succinctly described Heraclius as having "lived too long".[149]

DeathDog
DeathDog

btfo hard
Heraclius avoids fighting another war with a Persian general holding Egypt, Syria, still parts of Roman Levant and has to spend a year bribing and paying him off to leave because he doesn't want to fight him because the Byzantine forces were equaled in numbers by the Persians
Goturks got raped in all three wars despite the Persians fighting a two-front war the entire time with them and the Byzantines at the same time
Sad, Memet!

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

Heraclius avoids fighting another war with a Persian general holding Egypt, Syria, still parts of Roman Levant and has to spend a year bribing and paying him off to leave because he doesn't want to fight him because the Byzantine forces were equaled in numbers by the Persians

That's a funny way of saying "exploited gaping internal divisions and failure of central command in Persia before marching straight to Nineveh and then setting Khosrau's house on fire.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

No, retard. The war was already over during all of this. The Sassanid Shah, Khosrau II Parviz's son, Kavadh II, who took the throne after his father's forced abdication and imprisonment, signed a peace treaty returning everything back to its pre-war levels and borders between the Sassanids and Byzantines. Shahrabaraz was STILL occupying Egypt, Syria, and several other Byzantine territories militarily for a fucking year and had army with equivalent strength to Heraclius veteran leftovers. Heraclius then spends that entire time avoiding him because Shahrabaraz is the only Persian general besides Shahin who matched him and the only one whose inflicted a defeat him in the past. The war ended in 629 AD, Shahbaraz didn't decide to leave until Heraclius payed him off in 630 AD.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

Arab Invasion
bad
lmaoing at your life wh*Te dog
Khalid ibn al-BULL>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Heraclius

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

Not him but the last war ended in 628 AD where the peace treaty was signed between the Persians and Romans in spring 628 AD after the Battle of Nineveh in December 627 AD. According to Cambridge's history of Egypt, Shahrabaraz's troops didn't leave Egypt till June or July 629/30, handing it back over to Heraclius/Romans.

To be fair, like said, this Persian guy was the only one who matched Heraclius in actual battle, so its probably why the Byzantines preferred diplomacy over another potential battle/follow up war.

The Persian evacuation of Egypt was peaceful, following the July 629 agreement at Arabissos between Heraclius and Shahrabaraz. The Persians departed swiftly, perhaps within two months of the 629 agreement.
The size of the Persian occupation force defies expectation or estimation but the best Persian troops had probably left Egypt by July 629 AD to accompany Shahrabaraz to the Cilician Gates and the vicinity of Alexendretta.
So to make the skinny of it: this is already after Khosrau II was overthrown, killed, and most importantly a year after the peace treaty between Khosrau II's successor and Heraclius.

Flameblow
Flameblow

If only Khosrau II didn't want to kill Shahbaraz (might have been Byzantine propaganda), which led to Shahbaraz going rogue. Shahbaraz was a brilliant general.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

Reminder that based Bedouin Arabs destroyed 2 cancerous empires known as Rome and Fersia
fucking sedentary cucks

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

for a turk, you have a really weird obsession with araps.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

nah i just loathe Fersians and Greeks

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

Eastern Roman Empire should've invaded Hejaz and vassalized/converted the tribes there.

cum2soon
cum2soon

Two large spanning nations train and use desert people to fight proxy wars for decades, turning them from untrained tribal savages to a sophisticated war making machine sprinkled with religious fervor to cause mass chaos and destruction
hmm really makes you think

massdebater
massdebater

ERE
Conquering any tribe
I think you forgot how our Queen Mavia destroyed Romans in Syrian deserts

Methshot
Methshot

wh*Tes are so funny. No way y'all that garbage at roasting to where y'all immediately just gotta say roach :DDDD

Emberburn
Emberburn

heraclius is overrated desu, if he were anywhere near as great as caesar like people said he shouldve been able to stomp a bunch of sandnigger bandits in yarmouk, but he didnt and lost syria, egypt and the entire north africa in the process

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

if that was an unprotectable overextended ego masturbation mess in the golden age then i somehow don't think the byzantines could have held onto it in any impactful long term sense either

TechHater
TechHater

Are you that turk from /int/ whi was butthurt about his sultan being aryan?

whereismyname
whereismyname

ottomans were J2
deal with it you amerimutt subhuman.
Also Amerimutts are the only people that i loathe even more than Fersians or Greeks or wh*Tes

Lunatick
Lunatick

Why couldn't the greatest Roman general since Julius Caesar defeat the Arabs?

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

roach in denial

hairygrape
hairygrape

Amerimutt subhuman
fuck off before i kick your mutt skull in, mutt.

WebTool
WebTool

wew lad
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Turkish_people

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

haplogroups=race
Amerimutts everybody
every nation in Eurasia has haplogroups like that. you dumbass amerimutt.
When will i get to behead an Amerimutt already

Booteefool
Booteefool

greatest Roman general since Julius Caesar
That's not Belisarius nor Aurelian

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

Obviously the Greeks
The Persians were collapsing and under the assault of the Turkic nomadsd allied with the Greeks while the Greeks were reconquering their lands(Heraclius)

farquit
farquit

roach calling others mutts

iluvmen
iluvmen

Amerimutt calling anyone mutt

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

His army was small and he himself was too old to command troops so he left his battles to incompetent generals. Also the Arabs were strong and united and weren't exhausted from 20 years of constant warfare like Byzantium

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

He was also autistic and had a fear of water. Imagine Caesar never invading Rome because the Rubicon was scary

Booteefool
Booteefool

It isn't known if he wanted Shahbaraz dead or not. That could entirely be made up propaganda and damage control by the Byzantines, what we do know for certain was he wanted and intended to have Shahbaraz removed from being the main commander of Persian forces and arrested. But I do agree if this folly of Khosrau II's didn't happen with his ego, its very likely the war would've ended in a stalemate.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

You are one dumb T*rk considering J2 isn't anything in itself when concerning autosomal DNA being more important, retard.

Soft_member
Soft_member

I know that but the amerimutt itt does not.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

its very likely the war would've ended in a stalemate.

Lol no, Heraclius defeated everything Khosrau threw at him and he defeated Shahbaraz twice.

WebTool
WebTool

Because Khalid ibn al-Walid was the greatest general since Hannibal

RumChicken
RumChicken

this

eGremlin
eGremlin

He knows it too.

lol no
Wrong
He defeated Shahbaraz twice
Shahrabaraz humiliated Heraclius at least three times, the first at Antioch. Then again in Damascus when Heraclius linked his army with his brother Theodore's and the Byzantine general Niceteas, and lost again heavily. Then Shahrabaraz defeated the reinforcement sent earlier by Heraclius in Syria and captured a huge number of Byzantine soldiers.

Shahin even routed Heraclius again in Albania. Heraclius later had a reversal of fortune and wiped out half of the combined army of Shahin and another Persian general but was again defeated or at least repulsed after he beat back Shahrabaraz advance only to be stalled again in another battle around Lake Van according to other sources. After that you have the Battle of Sarus/Bridge where Shahrabaraz again stalemated Heraclius and even wiped out his entire frontal force and vanguard, and forced him to return to his previous position without getting to advance.

So no, more often then not Heraclius tended to have huge issues facing Shahrabaraz who he fought at least half a dozen times directly during the 602-628 war. Which again explains why he didn't want to military invade Byzantine territories being held by Shahrabaraz after the war's treaty.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

Heraclius defeated everything Khosrau threw at him

Except for, you know, the decade of Sassanian campaigns that saw the Levant, Egypt, and Anatolia fall into Persian hands. Heraclius was ready to abandon Constantinople and relocate the government to Carthage.

The most effective tactic Heraclius used was sowing discord among the Persian ranks, having the highest Persian generals turn against Khosrau, including Shahbaraz and Kardarigan. The most battle-hardened veterans were under Shahbaraz's commandHad this not happened, Heraclius may very well have been unsuccessful.

Lunatick
Lunatick

Uh
He defeated Heraclius at least three to five times.
Shahbaraz:
Antioch
Damascus
Dara/Syria
Anatolia (near Iraq/Syria borders)
Sarus river
Shahin:
Caucasian Albania
Mite be reason to figure why the other user said that given how much problems the top Sassanid general kept giving Heraclius and his top commanders during the war why he didn't want to fight Shahbaraz even when he was holding Roman Egypt, Syria, and Levant still a full year after the peace treaty had already ended the conflict.

massdebater
massdebater

Romans had Huns
Persians had Islamists

Both were being fucked at around the same time and were on the verge of collapse.

If the Persians didn't have the Islamists, they'e be in superior position. But that doesn't say much as they were both declining/stagnating in power even without those two forces. One of the main reason both the Huns and the Islamists dealt heavy damage to their respective empires were due to their stagnation.

Snarelure
Snarelure

The Huns were defeated by the Western Romans and a few years after that lost their empire completely as in-fighting destroyed the fragile confederation Atilla and his brother forged. And the main reason why the Huns attacked the Eastern Romans and later Western Romans was because the Persians defeated them in two major battles in the Caucasus and Eurasia which deflected them westwards.

Dunno what you mean by "Islamists" though.

Flameblow
Flameblow

TW Attila player goes on his
The hunnic empire was completely lost, but they still remained as mercenary forces. I believe belisarius brought some along in North Africa to defeat the Vandals.

WebTool
WebTool

persians
human

We should bomb them to the stone age with Israel, they are the apex sandniggers

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

TW Attila player
I don't get this meme.
The hunnic empire was completely lost
That was my point. They were directed westwards toward the Eastern and Western Romans because the Persians/Sassanids were in their first golden age and defeated two attempts by the Huns to invade their lands. The only "Huns" that gave the Persians trouble for an extended period of time was the White Huns, whose long-lasting legacy was basically weakening Central Asia to migrating Turkic tribes.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

Time to burn some faggot persian ass

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

lmao saved

Booteefool
Booteefool

saving crap like that

good one.

Persia is litearlly mick jagger, who tf is that dude in the suit anyways? Garbage.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

responding to (You)r own posts
This is kind of sad.

Inmate
Inmate

t. assblasted persian cuckold

WebTool
WebTool

The last time that an iranian dynasty collapsed romans had to face an even more dangerous one, tho

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

What. He was from fucking Carthage and crossed the black sea several times to attack Azerbaijan.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

After Attila became famous, half the people of the steppe suddenly became huns in the sources.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

I realized what the guy was saying now.
I thought he was referring to them as mercs and not a separate power which weakened both empires.

He thinks the war was in the 450's (with Attila) which is a good 150 years after the start of the Byz-Sassanian war.

My bad/

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

Rome hands down

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

5 minutes later
lol

eGremlin
eGremlin

Heraclius finally returned to his capital in 638, over a bridge of boats designed to allay his hydrophobia
Warren Treadgold, "A history of Byzantine State and Society".

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