Economically speaking, was Fascist Italy more stable than Nazi Germany?
Could fascist Italy have lasted into the fifties if it had avoided war (or at least been on the winning side)?
Economically speaking, was Fascist Italy more stable than Nazi Germany?
Andrew Stewart
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Hunter Nguyen
Dictatorship was stable in Portugal and Spain which remained neutral in WWII.
So prolly, but expect growth and diplomacy to be weakened due to autarkical (or at least very protectionistic) pretensions.
All these agricultural campaigns were terrible. Not as bad as soviet agricultural collectivism, but still pretty bad. Why do strongmen-type politicians feel the need to tell farmers how to do their jobs?
Noah Scott
>Economically speaking, was Fascist Italy more stable than Nazi Germany?
NO.
>Could fascist Italy have lasted into the fifties if it had avoided war (or at least been on the winning side)?
IF IT HAD NOT JOINED THE WAR, WAR WOULD HAVE COME TO IT ANYWAY, AND WOULD HAVE CEASED TO EXIST EARLIER; IF "THE AXIS" HAD WON THE WAR, ITALY WOULD HAVE CEASED TO BE FASCIST BY THE NINETEEN HUNDRED SIXTIES, HAVING BECOME NATIONAL SOCIALIST.
Jonathan Morales
>Economically speaking, was Fascist Italy more stable than Nazi Germany?
Yes and no. Yes in the sense that it wasn't relying purely upon its war machine to improve the economy, but no in the sense that Fascist Italy's economy wasn't anything to really write home about, especially in the south of the country.
>Could fascist Italy have lasted into the fifties if it had avoided war (or at least been on the winning side)?
Probably, look at how long Fascist Spain lasted. That's not to say it would have been good, but given how long Fascist Spain was allowed to exist there's not much reason to assume that Fascist Italy wouldn't have been similar in a world where they didn't join the Axis.
Aiden Moore
>[ITALY] wasn't relying purely upon its war machine to improve the economy...
NEITHER WAS THE THIRD REICH.
Cooper Scott
You have ten seconds to provide definitive economic evidence that the Third Reich didn't recover from the depression almost entirely by employing the unemployed in military programs or in programs that were directly beneficial to said military.
Nicholas Hughes
YOU HAVE NINE SECONDS TO LEARN REGARDING THE SUBJECT THAT YOU ARE ATTEMPTING TO DISCUSS, AND OF WHICH YOU ARE FLAGRANTLY IGNORANT.
Joshua Rivera
You can have keynesian policies without putting everything into your military.
He could've employed people to build roads, dams, etc. Building stuff is more productive than bombing stuff, generally speaking.
Nathan Long
Amazing rebuttal, you have eight seconds to provide any level of evidence or else your argument is void.
Yes you can, and he could've, but even his building projects were done to directly benefit the military in some way.
Adrian Barnes
THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU, MORON.
Hunter Howard
LISTEN TO MY CAPS
Leo Powell
>He could've employed people to build roads, dams, etc. Building stuff is more productive than bombing stuff, generally speaking.
"could've" is not the same as actually fucking he "did" or he "would've". theres no evidence anyway for the latter stuff
Brandon Thompson
Learn how to turn off your Caps lock, retard.
Robert Hall
>You have ten seconds to provide
>Doesn't provide
Amazing, well done, by deflecting the argument back at me, which the consensus supports, without providing any evidence to support your own argument, surely you have won.
How about the fact that Nazi Germany explicitly conscripted individuals to lower the unemployment rate?
How about the fact that Nazi Germany directed workers to weapons and arms manufactures as a means of revealing unemployment?
How about the fact that Nazi Germany built the Reichsautobahn fucking explicitly as a means to reduce unemployment while providing the German military a means of rapid transit across the country?
Dylan King
YOU CLAIMED THAT THE THIRD REICH BASED ITS ECONOMIC IMPROVEMENT ON MILITARY DEVELOPMENT, WITHOUT PROVIDING PROOF, AND AGAINST WHAT IS KNOWN TO HAVE BEEN IN ACTUALITY; ID EST: RETURNING THE LABOURFORCE INWARD, IMPLEMENTING IT ON NATIONAL PROJECTS, WITH THE PURPOSE OF ACHIEVING AUTARKY THROUGH SELFSUFFICIENCY.
MILITARY DEVELOPMENT DOES NOT MAGICALLY LEAD TO ECONOMIC IMPROVEMENT; NATIONAL IMPROVEMENT OCCURS WHEN WORK IS DIRECTED TOWARD IMPROVING THE NATION, WHICH MAY INCLUDE DEVELOPING THE MILITARY, BUT IT IS NOT REDUCIBLE TO IT.
THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU BECAUSE YOU WERE THE FIRST TO MAKE A CLAIM WHICH CONTRADICTS WHAT IS KNOWN.
Luke Anderson
>about to read thread
>see capstard
>now about to leave the thread
Luke Green
No I fucking don't, the scholarly consensus is that Hitler was attempting to improve the overall economy of the German nation through the progression of its arms. A claim that I've provided the most basic fucking arguments for which you have, in this post, not even begun to attempt to refute.
Fuck
You
Trip
Faggot
Angel Miller
>... the scholarly consensus is that Hitler was attempting to improve the overall economy of the German nation through the progression of its arms.
DO YOU MEAN THE CONSENSUS BETWEEN THESE "SCHOLARS"?
Andrew Jackson
>REALITY IS JEWISH!
Benjamin Gutierrez
?
Lucas Thompson
!
Camden Perez
What are these photos? Why are you so desperate for attention? Turn off caps lock and get rid of that trip.
Jayden Carter
Never post again
Jose Turner
Perhaps you should read The Wages of Destruction before jabbering on once again about something you clearly know nothing about
Thomas Garcia
What's your endgame?
Wyatt Anderson
Le Jews :(
James Peterson
ALWAYS, WHEN YOU ZIONIST IMBECILES GET DEFEATED IN A DISCUSSION, YOU RESORT TO YOUR LAST TACTIC OF PETTY INSULTS TO CREATE THE ILLUSION THAT ONE IS THE ALIEN HERE, IN AN ATTEMPT TO DISCREDIT ONE IN THE SPECTATORS' PERSPECTIVE.
YOU ARE PATHETIC.
Nathan Howard
EVIDENCE IS A JEWISH INVENTION TO ENABLE THEM TO ALWAYS BE RIGHT
"EVIDENCE" DOESN'T MEAN SHIT IN THE REAL WORLD
Aiden Davis
This is what you consider an argument
Jackson Davis
THIS IS WHAT YOU CONSIDER AN ARGUMENT:
>... the scholarly consensus is...
Nolan Fisher
THIS IS PERFECTLY FINE ARGUMENT
IF YOU WANT TO CHALLENGE ACADEMIC CONSENSUS YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM. WORD OF AUTIST HAS 0 WORTH ON ITSELF.
Lincoln Phillips
>He's actually defending a regime that needed to resort to peacetime rationing.
oldmagazinearticles.com
Jack Gomez
?!
Kayden Ward
IF ACADEMIC CONSENSUS IS THE ULTIMATE STANDARD FOR KNOWLEDGE, WHY THINK AT ALL WHEN "SCHOLARS" CAN TELL US WHAT TO BELIEVE?
Oliver Foster
WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO WRITE YOUR SENTENCES IN ALL CAPS LIKE THIS YOU CLOSET ZIONIST
Jeremiah Flores
THE SCHOLARS ARE LYING
Evan Walker
BECAUSE IT IS THE BEST WE HAVE AT HAND.
SHALL WE INSTEAD TAKE WORDS OF RANDOM INTERNET AUTIST AS THE ULTIMATE STANDARD FOR KNOWLEDGE?
Anthony Lewis
Great, another treat about fascism ruined for hitler's fanboys.
Jose Barnes
No, it was a fucking house of cards. A stiff breeze would've killed its economy.
Grayson Gomez
>replying to a tripfag
>giving a tripfag attention
William Fisher
Is fascism is conflated with ethnic nationalism due to Nazism or does is actually involve ethnic nationalism and hatred of foreigners?
Easton Green
It's literally one tripfag who comes into every thread regarding Nazism or Fascism and shits it up with his all caps garbage
Colton Hughes
THE FACT THAT THE OPINIONS OF FESTERING OLD ZIONISTS ARE "THE BEST THAT YOU HAVE" DOES NOT ENTAIL THAT IT IS THE TRUTH, NOR THAT ACTUALLY CONSCIOUS PERSONS SHOULD BELIEVE THEM.
Christian White
Italy's economic situation was more stable than Nazi Germany's, but because of vastly different approaches to economic policies.
Italy capitalized on corporatism, having private companies industrialize the nation under state direction, so much of this state planning went towards the arms industries, especially naval shipyards to create an Italian fleet that could go toe-to-toe with the British Navy. They also diversified into the automotive and tech industries such as Ferrari (in the later years) and the Marconi Company, as well as capitalizing on social welfare, which was commended as one of the most progressive welfare systems in europe. This allowed Italy to recover relatively quickly from the Great Depression, where the economy made a recovery by 1934-35.
Nazi Germany's on the other hand was immensely unstable, but allowed for extremely quick growth at the cost of immense debt. Germany took out numerous loans from the Central Bank in order to fund rearmament and public projects such as the Autobahn and the 1936 Olympic stadiums, but Germany had no way to ever pay back these loans on their own, so it was planned from the start to conquer vast areas of Europe and use the spoils of war to plug back into the German economy, staving off the debt the funded the economic miracle.
tl;dr: the Italians thought more long-term and worked within their economic capacity for 20 years, Germany's economic however required military conquest in order to feed itself.
as for a good source on economics during Mussolini's reign, I recommend this:
William Wright
THEY ARE HURTING YOUR FEELINGS
INSTEAD OF FACING FACTS YOU CALL THEM LIES
YOU RETREET INTO YOUR INNER PARADISE
BUT COMING OUT TO THE LIGHT WILL BE YOUR DEMISE
YOU MAY TREAT REALITY LIKE WHORE
BUT OVER THE TIME YOUR FACE IS BECOMING AN EYESORE
Daniel Williams
Is your caps lock key broken? Do you do it for attention? Why do you think accusing scholars of being Zionists is a valid argument? Why do you trust the Ministry of Public Enlightenment more than renowned scholars from all over the world?
Henry Brown
Fascism require nationalism of whatever kind: civic, ethnic, religious, and so on.
Samuel Gomez
desuarchive.org
It's even worse. He's trying to autistically revive the sort of writing done in the Roman Empire by typing all in caps.
David Kelly
Jesus fucking Christ, this guy is worse than I thought.
William Campbell
Also, fascism is about unity with the state and the nation, so whatever thing is against to national unity is persecuted by fascism.
Easton Hughes
Economically speaking, Nazi Germany was already at the absolute top of stability. They wanted to not be dependent of importations to keep things running during the war and they had an entire part of the economy dedicated to making substitution product.
Noah Bailey
>Economically speaking, Nazi Germany was already at the absolute top of stability.
They had denbts that would put Greeks to shame. Stability and autarky are different things.
>They wanted to not be dependent of importations to keep things running during the war and they had an entire part of the economy dedicated to making substitution product.
They made solid research into the area, but it wasn't enough to alievate shortage of rare materials, fats and oil.
Luke Jones
what
Jason Cox
In non-autist speak
>I don't need to provide evidence, because I can call anyone who disagrees with me a Jew. Jews are bad.
Levi Campbell
>a Nazi ruins discussion of fascism
History repeats yet again.
Samuel Jenkins
It can be any kind of nationalism, but Hitler is responsible for people thinking "fascism=kill minorities".
Joshua Rivera
Every time someone brings up Nazi Germany's economy that is the only book that is ever mentioned. I'm starting to believe that it might just be the only book with that opinion.
Josiah Kelly
No, it's just the most extensively detailed and direct, and it's a watershed work in historical research. You can go read Ian Kershaw's two volume biography on Hitler, for example, if you want to read a different book that talks about this in much, much less detail.
Asher James
Germany's military history office produced a couple of volumes on the subject with a level of detail that rivals Tooze's.
libgen.io
libgen.io
The volume for the wartime economy and manpower resources from 1942-1945 isn't available on libgen unfortunately.
Angel Hernandez
>germany loses land to poland
>poles still move to germany en masse