Do Freemasons have an end game or are they just a club of older dudes who do community service...

> Most countries don't even have centralised Masonry
No. Every country has it. Masonry was spreading in 18-19 centuries as virus. All countries were either European, or European colonies (and got masonic loges from metropolies) or were rarest exceptions with independent goverments, who had to join this network for diplomatic relations.
I ment only real absolute monarchs, ofc.

>Freemasons
look at you, you're a little baby, you ain't even illuminati

>or are they just a club of older dudes who do community service?

This one.

>Why were they so involved with the founding of the United States?

"They" weren't, if you mean the organization. Nor were all members in favor of revolution. Most founders were members because, at the time, almost any upper class liberal would be a member.

>ur an idiot if you believe everything the government says
>ur an idiot for not believing everything I say
I just want to find the truth about groups like the freemasons and the elite in general instead of 2spooky4u memes. Why is that a crime?

Maybe they are sacrificing virgins in their basements, I don't know, but to begin with you look at the connections they can't hide, big deals they are making, family. What is more relevant are business cliques and connections.

Also importantly you take a broad perspective instead of falling for confirmation bias. You don't say "I am sure they are sacrificing virgins and triangle symbols mean they are all in cahoots, I'm going to find 500 examples of triangular symbols and pretend the sheer volume of this proof proves they are sacrificing virgins". Conspiracy theories are flimsy shit. It's annoying for someone capable of logic, that's all.

...

Freemasons is a fucking broad term. You should just ask "what does a specific lodge do and what do they want." They varied and they still vary from country to country. As you can imagine they supported different stuff and were involved in different matters. In my country Freemasons were ultranationalists.

We are living something close to their end game. If anything, they are upset that the world order is slowly shifting gear.

Republicanism, secularism, rationalism, democracy (to an extent, masons wouldn't like 5star-types), liberalism, and enlightnement values in general - these were the stuff they used to stand for and why they had to be underground to survive under the old order. Then revolutions and reforms displaced the old aristocrats, liberal professions took on prestige, and the borgeois and their aproved intelligentsia took over more and more of the reins. They have became less secretive since then and tried to justify their continued existence through charity work and shaking off corruption accusations (as you can imagine, having a secret club where powerful people meet is a pretty good environment for insider trading and shady white colar practices such as that).

I'd maybe try to join, if I was up for the mystic, traditional aspects of it. But I'm not.

Its literally just a social club with rituals and symbols. Go to your local lodge and ask them.

As I answered - masons are true elitists of states. Part of them have public posts (political, economical, military), part are in shadow.
They have some old rhituals (from 18-19 centuries), but its not so important. They doesnt constitute world governemnt because of conflict of interests.
There 3 branches of masonry - British (main), French (remanants survived after French revolution), USAmerican (main basement of independence).

The truth of the matter is that Freemasonry is dying hard and fast because Baby Boomers largely skipped joining like their fathers so there is a massive generational gap in membership. Because of this lodges are closing all around the world as the shrinking amount of dues is unable to keep up with the costs.

In the US lodges are frantically searching for ways to appeal to younger people in a last ditch attempt to get a new generation in but frankly they aren't biting. I expect the Masons to reduce themselves to about 1/3 of their current size in the next 50 years.

I'm fuckin down, I'll take all the connections I can get. How do I join?
Canadian btw

Google lodges near you and ask to join. I've been a member for 5 years and meeting people from all over the world who have connections to businesses, cops, government positions, and doctors has benefited me more than a few times. If you're looking for something mystical and spooky you'll probably be disappointed, but if you want connections and can bear to be a little patient then it's worth it.

Honestly I was so saddened by how dead things are and how lacking in spiritual matters it was that I started a philosophy club with another younger mason and we've been gathering members and growing for a bit. I'm hoping I can recapture the spirit of the old organization but goddamn those old dudes are bitter and disenfranchised.

Wow, nice,
I am not that dude, but I got really interested as well. Not because of the connections or the "spiritual" part, but because I like meeting new people and it's kinda hard to find a good community to be part of nowadays. That's why we are messaging anonymous dudes on an imageboard.

Are there any fee's or hidden scam-like things like with the mormons and scientologists ?

Read that, a candidate has to believe in god,
what if I believe in more than one "god" because let's I practice a non-proper religion ?

This. Also, will they let me in if I'm Catholic or is that haram?

>Catholic
Looked up their website and it said only those are allowed to join who believe in a supreme being. So Catholic is ok. They don't really give a crap about religions anyways, it seems like.

>Every country has it.
Yes, but my point was "centralised." Ie. each state/province is independent, with their own sovereign grand lodge.

>There 3 branches of masonry
No. You're just naming countries.

No so much dying, as our GLs seem to think, but returning to proper size. The baby boomers should never have joined, as they artificially inflated the peak membership stats. And they were shitty members anyway, just focusing on charity and having a night out.

Catholics are fine to join, but the Vatican might have issue with you doing it.

>The Vatican just wants people to think that.
That's why Freemasons funded and supported revolutions in every Catholic nation against the Church, right?

Freemasonry is just more Jewish Kabbala/Communism.

The end game is a socialist state with their /our guy at the top of the pyramid.

The rituals are mind games designed to lead men into thinking they are learning something very important. A sprinkle of morality here and concentrated deception here. Until you are fully deluded.

No, they don't have a chip on their shoulder about Catholic Church. The Catholic church is just one stepping stone they need to reach the top of pyramid.

No, rebels did. To use your words, Catholics formed Catholic revolutions against Catholic nations and their church.
Their affiliations aren't necessarily the fault of what they're associated with.

>The end game is a socialist state
Well no. It promotes nationalism and meritocracy. Socialism goes against those.
>The rituals are mind games
No, they're lessons, made to encourage people to go learn for themselves.

They promote it outwardly, means they are against it secretly. Read about lesser and greater magic.

It is how secret societies work anyways. The lessons are good moral ones used to keep the members occupied and to feel useful, all while they are sending their money to the globalist at the top.

>They promote it outwardly, means they are against it secretly.
The fuck kind of logic is that?
>Here guys, here are reasons why X is good. And here are reasons why those reasons are good reasons for it.
>Hah, sucker, we're actually against X for some reason, even though we've proved it was good.
> all while they are sending their money to the globalist at the top.
Good thing that doesn't apply to Masonry, then.

>(remanants survived after French revolution)
What are you talking about, they WERE the Revolution.

>Nope. The Vatican just wants people to think that.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affaire_Des_Fiches
Fucking Vatican planned this all along to ensure there wouldn't be any Christian left in the higher echelons of the French army.

>What are you talking about, they WERE the Revolution.
No, the rebels took over lodges, and lodges had to flee from them. That's why we have so many French Grand Lodges now. The GOdF are the rebels, and the GLNF are the loyalists.

>>enemies to the catholic church
>Nope. The Vatican just wants people to think that.
Orthodox Church also excommunicates freemason for their treachery and general assholery. Explain this Freemason apologist.
French revolution
Reformation
Russian Revolution
etc
The freemason ARE rightfully fought against

>Orthodox Church also excommunicates freemason for their treachery and general assholery.
Yea, they're ignorant of it too. Hardly surprising. Both churches don't understand that Masonry isn't a rival.
>French revolution
Was the fault of the weather and the Americans.
>Reformation
Was the fault of the Papacy. If you're trying to blame Masons, you're a bit early.
>Russian Revolution
Was the fault of the Doma and other Russian nobility, combined with absent Tzars.

Stop pretending these events have such simple answers as "da illuminatti"

I'm not saying they're so simple, but to ignore the bastardry of you mason turbo fags is absolutely ridiculous. You can blame the fucking thunder in the sky or the stars were aligned a certain way, but you mason fucks have a lot of crimes to answer for

>dey is ignant
lmao

>but you mason fucks have a lot of crimes to answer for
Such as? Because you're blaming one group (which is itself vehemently against their actions) for the actions of some members, who were themselves in many groups.
>lmao
Okay. Justify their concerns.

I'm not blaming one group, I'm saying the mason had a lot to do with the revolutions. Such as propaganda

Above is my justification

>I'm not blaming one group,
>I'm saying the mason
Wow, you didn't even give yourself a chance.
>Above is my justification
Except it's wrong. Freemasonry is forbidden to involve itself in politics. Unless you're referring to the GOdF, you have no leg to stand on.

What's the GOdF endgame?
What do you think about them and their involvement?

>Catholics formed Catholic revolutions against Catholic nations and their church.
Our revolution was led by Freemasons. All of the top dudes were Freemason.

The triangle in our flag was freemason antics.

They're dirty jews, so i'd say anything lousy would be in their court.
They actively influence French and Belgian politics.

>Our revolution was led by Freemasons.
I bet they were Catholics, too. Shame that the Catholics would lead a revolution against fellow Catholics.

>Do Freemasons have an end game or are they just a club of older dudes who do community service? Why were they so involved with the founding of the United States?
It's the Rotary Association with esoteric rituals.

For centuries, Men With Plans have joined these fraternal societies. Upwardly mobile young men, agitators, domestic terrorists, community-minded folks.

The demographics are different in each country. There's a lot of the political-business class in Japan, police and judiciary in Sweden, and in Australia tattooed blue collar and service industry people are entering as the middle class die of old age.

This is what I hear from people I know on the inside, who are yuppies who now know old men who fund medical research.

>I've been a member for 5 years and meeting people from all over the world who have connections to businesses, cops, government positions, and doctors has benefited me more than a few times. If you're looking for something mystical and spooky you'll probably be disappointed, but if you want connections and can bear to be a little patient then it's worth it.
>Honestly I was so saddened by how dead things are and how lacking in spiritual matters it was that I started a philosophy club with another younger mason and we've been gathering members and growing for a bit. I'm hoping I can recapture the spirit of the old organization but goddamn those old dudes are bitter and disenfranchised.

This sounds familiar!

Then why is it then that you you have so many Free Masons in positions of high political power being so tolerant or even amiable to Catholics like Frederik the Great or Andrew Jackson?

>French revolution
Terrible economic mismanagement, horrific weather and wealthy people who were refused to be cut out of politics just because they didnt have the right name and pedigree.

>Reformation
So you are blaming Free Masons for something that happened roughly 300 years before they even formed?

Are you that tirgger happy when it comes to blaming Freemasons for changes you don't like?

>Russian Revolution
Horrific foreign and domestic policy, the devastation of WWI.

Communists literally banned Freemasonry and took the property of its predominately middle class membership. The Kaiser shipping Lenin back with a suitcase full of money did more damage than any Freemason.

Is this explanation sufficient ?

>Terrible economic mismanagement, horrific weather and wealthy people who were refused to be cut out of politics just because they didnt have the right name and pedigree.

The French revolution was a bunch of rich middle class merchants, bankers e.t.c. who were bootyblasted that their wealth was not enough to give them higher social status so they killed the nobility and the king, persecuted the church so they could larp as the new nobles. Most of them were freemasons which makes sense since most freemasons are faggots who want to act important and get social status.

To add

>Liberté, égalité, fraternité (pronounced [li.bɛʁ.'te e.ɡa.li.'te fʁa.tɛʁ.ni.'te]), French for "liberty, equality, fraternity",[1] is the national motto of France and the Republic of Haiti, and is an example of a tripartite motto. Although it finds its origins in the French Revolution, it was then only one motto among others and was not institutionalized until the Third Republic at the end of the 19th century.[2] Debates concerning the compatibility and order of the three terms began at the same time as the Revolution. It is also the motto of the Grand Orient de France and the Grande Loge de France.

Exactly. Not Freemasons, just the (((GOdF)))

Did you not read the " wealthy people who were refused to be cut out of politics just because they didnt have the right name and pedigree." part of my post before you quoted it?

Likewise if you take a look at the post Napoleonic Regimes in France you will get a nice look at the anti revolutionary sentiment of the moneyed middle class after learning personally about the failures of the 1st Republic.

Still happy to blame Freemasons for the Reformation?

>French revolution
Shit rulers + angry populace = revolution, successful revolution = a change to the ideas of how the state should be run, why would free masons orchestrate the french revolution only to have it quickly revert to a monarchy under napoleon and the july monarchy?
>Reformation
Internal pressures to be more biblical from people like Martin Luther and the overreaction to said mild calls for reform meant that a new "sect" was created, one that didn't care about the pope's authority.
>Russian Revolution
See top, be it democracy or communism, when rulers fail, revolts happen, bringing in new systems.

Pretty sure the motto was officialy adopted during the Second Republic.

logic regarding esoteric knowledge?

Esoteric means not very many people understand it. To make something not easily understood you hide information within information, so that only a few have a key to deciphering it.

>logic regarding esoteric knowledge?
As a fan of initiatory schools, i'm yet to come across one which would destroy itself in the way you describe. And that's including the Cathars.
Perhaps you're just mistaken?

This goes all the way back to paganism mysticism. It even applies to your mom and dad, as not many people understand your personal relation ship with your mom and dad. Inside jokes, political groups, armies, hell even George Washington used a magic square.

This is because you are a sheep, the sheep aren't handed keys to the power over the entire group.

Oh, of course. It's not that you're wrong due to flawed thinking and lack of investigation, it's some arbitrary measure of my own (which is irrelevant) knowledge.

>hell even George Washington used a magic square.
Well yea, shit like that was all the rage at the time. Of course ex Bro Washington would play with it.

The bible called secret societies a brood of vipers. It makes sense because they hide like cowards, and delude their followers.

Of Course the Catholic Church does the same shit, just different name.

>The bible called secret societies a brood of vipers.
Okay?
Not sure what that has to do with the topic at hand, though.
>Of Course the Catholic Church does the same shit
I don't think the Holy Catholic Church hides a great deal.

>I don't know
>I don't think
c'mon man use your brain. You aren't a sheep, you are a real human.

Protip: I do, i'm just taking the piss out of your hilariously bad conclusions.