Were ancient Indo-Aryans racist? Genetics have now proven that they were blonde and blue-eyed, originally

Were ancient Indo-Aryans racist? Genetics have now proven that they were blonde and blue-eyed, originally.

sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv09073.htm
>Blowing away with supernatural might from earth and from the heavens the swarthy skin which Indra hates.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=x4osChDnPyQ
cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(16)31542-1
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolian_hypothesis
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Learn, nigger

youtube.com/watch?v=x4osChDnPyQ

>Genetics have now proven that they were blonde and blue-eyed, originally.
Didn't it prove they were dark haired with blue eyes? I'm sure most examined Yamnaya were dark haired.

>Recent archaeological and genetic study published in 2014 found that seven "Scandinavian hunter-gatherers" found in the 7,700-year-old Motala archaeological site in southern Sweden had both light skin gene variants, SLC24A5 and SLC45A2, and that they had a third gene, HERC2/OCA2, which causes blue eyes and also contributes to lighter skin and blond hair.[33] Genetic research published in 2014 and 2015 also indicates that Yamnaya Proto-Indo-Europeans who migrated to Europe in the Bronze Age were overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European.[34] Light pigmentation traits had already existed in pre-Indo-European Europeans (both farmers and hunter-gatherers), and long-standing philological attempts to correlate them with the arrival of Indo-Europeans from the steppes were misguided.[35]

There are many tribes in India in which people are either blonde or blue-eyed. These descriptions are meant to show us these characters as special and otherwordly.
I never see people arguing for the existence of blue people in India, for some reason it's always about proving that every cultural achievement was somehow due to white people.

There are still lots of dravidians, and lots of them are blue, so I doubt it's as all-fired important to prove, since you can walk around a while and see some blue people.

> The genetic basis of a number of physical features of the Yamnaya people were ascertained by the ancient DNA study conducted by Haak et al. (2015), Wilde et al.(2014), Mathieson et al. (2015) : they were genetically tall (phenotypic height is determined by both genetics and environmental factors), overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European

Something to note is that the only light skinned hunter gatherer Europeans lived in Northern Europe, though their light skin would be more akin to Asian people thanks to proto-Eurasian mixing up north. Other hunter gatherers were some degree of dark skinned, though I would imagine they were lighter than most Africans and most Indians, with the women being even lighter (as all human women are on average).

Blue as in so dark they appear blueish? I heard some European cultures referred to extremely dark skinned Africans as blue because of this.

Dravidian Indus Valley Civilization was more impressive than anything the aryans did

Scandinavian hunter-gatherers weren't the ancestors of Scandinavians. It makes no difference if they were green.

Sintashta culture were blonde and blue-eyed, and they were the original Indo-Aryans. Also all the sampled Yamnaya darkies were R1b, the original Indo-Europeans were light haired and eyed R1a carriers.

Isn't Yamnaya older than Sintashta?

Yes, but the Yamnaya horizon hasn't been fully sampled yet. I suspect that R1b in the steppe got Indo-Europeanized by R1a, since ancient Indo-Europeans in the East were fully R1a.

Also you have to take into consideration the fact that ancient R1a peoples in the steppe were very light in comparison.

WE

The first horse people were Middle-Eastern and had dark hair and dark eye color, they continued living on the steppe for thousands of years. Until the Yamanaya culture "assimilates" the more numerous blonde-haired and blue-eyed people of Eastern Europe, resulting in the Corded Ware culture. The Corded Ware Culture then backmigrates, Sintasha culture branches off and goes into Central Asia and mixes with local civilizations before arriving into modern-day Pakistan.

So to put it simpler
>Middle Eastern people domesticate goats, sheep, cows, and become pastoralists
>migrate into central asia and domesticate horse
>migrate into eastern europe
>still overwhemingly of middle-eastern looks
>encounter tons of hunter-gatherer european women and mix
>eventually get WHITE'D by their wombs
>backmigrate into central asia

Depending on what time you arrived, they would've looked Middle Eastern first and then European later. But the ones who are known more recently were all white-looking.

>The first horse people were Middle-Eastern and had dark hair and dark eye color
retard

Yamna culture predates the Indo-European expansionary period by several thousand years brainlet.

>suspect that R1b in the steppe got Indo-Europeanized by R1a
DUDE

not an argument brainlet

Proto-Indo-Europeans had lighter skin than the blue eyed people they encountered in Europe. Slightly darker than our modern standards, but pale for the time period.

>since ancient Indo-Europeans in the East were fully R1a.

But that's wrong. Yamna in Kalmykia and Afanasevo were R1b.

>though their light skin would be more akin to Asian people thanks to proto-Eurasian mixing up north.

so nordcucks came from hapas? no wonder theyre so beta

ENF didn't have blue eyes any more than Yamna.

Read the thread moron.

>Genetic research published in 2014 and 2015 also indicates that Yamnaya Proto-Indo-Europeans who migrated to Europe in the Bronze Age were overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European.[34] Light pigmentation traits had already existed in pre-Indo-European Europeans (both farmers and hunter-gatherers), and long-standing philological attempts to correlate them with the arrival of Indo-Europeans from the steppes were misguided.[35]

That somewhat darker is indicative of the skintone of Middle Eastern and Mediterranean people.

There's a lot of shades in between.

I'd say Bulgaria tier. The ENF in Central Europe would have been much darker.

You never saw the chink eyes and flat noses of the northern Europeans and wondered if the Suomi Khans were real? Look at Brevik, a depigmented Mongolian.

Wrong, that's Modern Europe as a whole the Yamanaya were darker than, including the darker Europeans like Bulgarians. I'm sorry your feelings are hurt and this is now an emotional matter for you.

>indicative of the skintone of some modern Middle Eastern and Mediterranean people

more than 6000 years ago, dipshit.

Are you retarded lad? They flat out said darker than modern Europeans which includes modern Mediterranean Europeans. They also implied they were darker than the ENF.

That's dubious, very dubious. Need some more samples from the relevant NW fringe of the Yamna.

Still they would have been lighter than the dark brown ENF and the black as the night WHG.

>study doesnt match up with my feelings so it must be wrong or incomplete!
I don't know if you're just trolling or too emotionally distraught. So read what I linked you again:
>Light pigmentation traits had already existed in pre-Indo-European Europeans (both farmers and hunter-gatherers), and long-standing philological attempts to correlate them with the arrival of Indo-Europeans from the steppes were misguided.[35]
Yes, they just implied that the ENF and WHG were lighter than invading Yamnaya.

>implied

SHG got light skin alleles from the EHG.
ENF only had a partial set of depigmentation alleles, not the full one modern Europeans have.


WHG didn't have any of these alleles when unmixed.

EHG is the component of pre-Proto-Indo-Europeans. They started out pale and got a tan because of mixing with CHG women who were all things considered much lighter than Arabs.

>Light
>pigmentation
>traits
...
>pre-Indo-European Europeans

This includes Yamna. Because they're literally PIE. Idiot, you're conflating your fucking timelines.

>implied

You have to be schizophrenic to think Indo-Europeans could have come from the Middle East.

R1b and R1a have been found in what, dozens of pure EHG now?

Or did the Middle Eastern cuckolds like getting fucked by natives?

For Y-Chromosome inheritance from Middle East
>Lazaridis et al. (2016) also note that farming spread at two places in the Near East, namely the Levant and Iran, from where it spread, Iranian people spreading to the steppe and south Asia.[29]
>According to Lazaridis et al. (2016), "a population related to the people of the Iran Chalcolithic contributed ~43% of the ancestry of early Bronze Age populations of the steppe."[28]
>A large, 2014 study by Underhill et al., using 16,244 individuals from over 126 populations from across Eurasia, concluded there was compelling evidence, that R1a-M420 originated in the vicinity of Iran.[22]
>A 2010 study of modern genetic diversity suggested that the lineage R1b1b2 (R-M269), like E1b1b or J lineages, spread together with farming from the Near East. Prior archaeological[24][25][26][27][28][29] and metrological[30][31] studies had arrived at similar conclusions in support of the migrationist model. By this model, 80% of European Y chromosomes descend from incoming farmers, and most mtDNA from hunter-gatherers.[32]

Men of the Middle East is where the Y-chromosome of the steppe people came from

Caucasus women gave the CHG. The Y-DNA was already there. EHG men in Khvalynsk had the dominant role in society.

Light-skin may have multiple origins, one in the Middle-East and one in Northern Europe, the same way East Asia had it's own version of light-skin, the same way the Neanderthals had their own fair skin. We know Neolithic farmers could be both dark-skinned and light-skinned, like modern-day Turks, Arabs, or Iranians.
>Analysis of the genome from Cova Bonica has made it possible to determine the appearance of these pioneer farmers, who had light skin and dark eyes and hair.
>The study also showed that early farmers were dark-skinned
>Then, the first farmers from the Near East arrived in Europe; they carried both genes for light skin. As they interbred with the indigenous hunter-gatherers, one of their light-skin genes swept through Europe, so that central and southern Europeans also began to have lighter skin. The other gene variant, SLC45A2, was at low levels until about 5800 years ago when it swept up to high frequency.


For you
>Haplogroup R1b was not found in an ancient European context prior to a Bell Beaker period burial in Germany 4.8-4.0 kya (thousand years ago, i.e. 4,800-4,000 years ago). R1b arrives about 4.6 kya and is also found in a Corded Ware culture burial in Germany. A late introduction of these lineages which now predominate in Europe corresponds to the autosomal signal of the entry of Asian and Eastern European steppe invaders into western Europe.

By Europe they mean Europe west of the steppe.

All EHG men had either R1b, R1a or rarely Q.

Yamna had EHG paternaly ancestry and Caucasus mitochondrial DNA.

Lightskin existed in European hunter gatherers as did blue eyes and blonde hair
>Mario Alinei argues, following Cavalli Sforza, that the distribution of genetic markers largely corresponds to that of languages. He further contends that 80 percent of Europe's human genetic material dates back to the Paleolithic, and cites Bryan Sykes in claiming that only a fifth of European DNA can be traced back to neolithic incomers.[4]
>And the new data confirm that about 8500 years ago, early hunter-gatherers in Spain, Luxembourg, and Hungary also had darker skin: They lacked versions of two genes—SLC24A5 and SLC45A2—that lead to depigmentation and, therefore, pale skin in Europeans today.
>But in the far north—where low light levels would favor pale skin—the team found a different picture in hunter-gatherers: Seven people from the 7700-year-old Motala archaeological site in southern Sweden had both light skin gene variants, SLC24A5 and SLC45A2. They also had a third gene, HERC2/OCA2, which causes blue eyes and may also contribute to light skin and blond hair. Thus ancient hunter-gatherers of the far north were already pale and blue-eyed, but those of central and southern Europe had darker skin.
>Therefore hunter-gatherer populations likely contributed both OCA2 and SLC45A2 advantageous alleles to the European gene pool. This agrees well with these populations inhabiting northern European areas before the arrival of southern farmer groups. Lighter skin pigmentation has been proposed to be advantageous in northern latitudes to sustain vitamin D3 production in low-ultraviolet environments[46]. Blue iris colour may be advantageous to reduce the risk of seasonal affective disorder (also known as winter depression) in high latitudes[47], increase sensitivity to glare[48] or for sexual selection[49].

Motala SHGs got their light skin alleles from EHG people related to Proto-Indo-Europeans. WHG had dark skin.

>Further, the Y chromosomes of two of our Latvian Mesolithic samples were assigned to haplogroup R1b (the maximum-likelihood sub-haplogroup is R1b1b), which is the most common haplogroup found in modern Western Europeans [36]. This haplogroup has been found at low frequencies before the Late Neolithic in Western Europe [1, 35] but at higher frequencies in Russia and is suggested to have spread into Europe from the East after 5,000 cal BP [1]. The presence of this haplogroup in Mesolithic Latvia points to a more westward ancestral range.

cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(16)31542-1

>enf
>dark brown

Sardinians are lighter than Andalusians

Sardinians and Andalusians also live in the present day not 3000 BC and Andalusians have Moorish heritage like most Iberians.

Nobody would call them skinned anyway.

Look at the caste system

>he believes the Anatolian hypothesis
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolian_hypothesis
defunct

You do know the oldest intact human Y chromosome is from the remains of the Malta-Buret boy, who had basal R right?

That's Siberia, stupid. Not entirely relevant because it's 24,000 years ago and all the habitable zones on the planet were different, but it follows from your logic that those Middle Eastern males who just so happened to share a paternal haplogroup with Chalcolithic steppe cultures must have looked somewhat like Siberians.

>studies and genetic evidence are wrong
>basal R = R1 or R2
>24,000 years ago = 5,000 ya
>steppe culture was just siberians guise
>what is genetic drift
What a retard lmao, kill yourself to improve the quality of the board.

to be so thoroughly btfo by wiki link, do you even know what a Kurgan is?

Do you not understand why your logic is so faulty? Genetic drift is a given, you seem to have your directions as mixed up as your chronology. You have already confused PIE with Indo-European once after all.

Not very familiar with genetics and what not but what are Persians and other Indo-Iranian/Iranic peoples relation with the Andronovo and Yamnaya cultures in genetic, racial, and other ties?

Also how important are haplogroups generally speaking vs other forms of marking and investigating a people's genetic history, identity, and changes? Are haplogroups too simplified? Or too specific?

>to be
No, Anatolian theory has nothing to do with steppe theory you retard. I'm talking exclusively of the steppe theory.
>Do you
You're a retard who has no idea what logic is, you just spout pathetic fee-fees.
>Genetic drift
Again, hang yourself that you don't know what this means.
>already
Are you fucking retarded? How can you be so stupid to not know the difference between proto Indo-Europeans and Indo-Europeans? Here's a tip moron, the proto Indo-Europeans were an actual group of people. Indo-Europeans refers to the family of languages spoken by descendants of these people.

To put it simply
>Ancestors of the Yamnaya people come from Central Asia and Middle East
>Yamnaya people begin to enter Europe
>Corded Ware develops from mixing of Yamnaya and indigenous eastern Europeans
>Sintasha culture forms from Corded Ware and backmigrates towards Central Asia
>Andronovo later forms from Sintasha and moves into Central Asia and mixes with BMAC
>Indo-Iranians created and move into Middle East and South Asia

Haplogroups and Y-DNA are the best things we have for currently understanding genetics.

Haplogroups are not very precise, when it can be done autosomal DNA is more verifiable.

>when it can be done
Key phrase there, aDNA is much trickier to make that work with.

Yeah true but the issue I have personally with just using haplogroup mapping in itself is that it generally just relies on one set, usually maternal lineage to back trace everything especially when new SNPs are being found all the time.

>Were ancient Indo-Aryans racist?
Not really, because the concept of race as a category of collective identity above culture/nation/tribe didn't exist yet.

Of course they'd have hated dark-skinned people, but they wouldn't hate them for being dark-skinned, they'd have hated them for not being a part of the Indo-Aryan culture. They'd also hated any other whites who weren't part of their culture just as much.

EHG were a mixture of ANE and WHG so obviously the Siberians are relevant here to the origin of the PIE while Middle Easterners are not.

Skin color has nothing to do with caste.

You are partially correct.

>concept of race as a category of collective identity above culture/nation/tribe didn't exist yet.
While Vedic texts are vague, their complementary texts, the Brahmanas, Upanishads and their derivatives - the Epics and the Puranas quite distinctly present the evidence of both concepts - the racial difference (i.e - birth) and tribal difference (the Aryan lifestyle). The Indo-Aryans have names for both differences. Mleccha for racial difference and Arya/Anarya for the tribal identity.

Contrary to popular belief - the first two Vedas - Rig and Atharva don't actually signify skin color in the literal sense. For them, their Iranian counterparts - who they recognized as being Arya born were demonic/black/undesired. The reason being, the Iranians as bloodthirsty warlike lords. The whole story of Parshurama (Parshu being both epithets for battleaxe and the region Paras - Fars in middle Persian) exemplify it quite clearly. Parshurama was both a priest and a warrior - a quite distinct counter-culture to the Vedic culture where priest were separate castes.

>They'd also hated any other whites who weren't part of their culture just as much.
The stories of Demon King Hiranyakashipu and Hiranyaksha are exactly that. Very few people understand the blatant evidence and just recite the stories every year.
Hiranyakashipu is a Sandhi of Hiranya - Gold + Kashya - Hair. Now, I don't have to deeply define as to what a golden hair is.
Hiranyaksha = Hiranya - Gold/Deer-like + Aksha- eye. Deer eyes are not blue or hazel but they are defined as enchanting/deep as the lake, in many similes of Old Sanskrit poems.

While we are at it. Let's add one more info.
In Greek mythos - Atlantis was punished by Gods, even though it was a city blessed by Gods.
Puranic stories have a counterpart as well. The Indian Atlantis is also a three-tier ringed city, more advanced than mere humans could build (it was literally built by Architect for Gods, which confusingly was an Asura [mind you that earlier Vedic tales don't demonize the Asura title])
The cities are in constant motion - the first tier is on land (Iron), the second one in sky (Silver) and the third one in Heavens (the space - Gold). The city is ruled by Asura king and Vedic gods both get terrified and jealous of its grandeur. The city is reduced to ashes in a single strike in a single moment of a day.

From Vedic viewpoint, the city was evil and centre for Asuras, demons and so on. One could imagine, as to how a culture that associated more or was derivative of Atlantis would have seen themselves.

>iskcon guy

>Yamnaya
>Central Asia and Middle East

>Siberian paternal lines
>Caucasus maternal lines

How can Western Hunter Gatherers compete?

>white