Comparing quran violence to old testament violence is wrong

>the violence in the old testament is DESCRIPTIVE
Some I'm sure, Quran also has that, description of violence mostly toward insolent folk

But Bible also has direct presciptives, If you think homosexuality is a sin, Leviticus 19 gives you extactly what you should do. Go read your bible.

Not 19, 20, Lev 20:13 to be exact.
>If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

If you, LORD, kept a record of sins, Lord, who could stand? (Psalm 130:3)

>it's another Islam thread

It's another dumb frogposter

>And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you.
>Leviticus 11:7-8

>But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered, disgraces his head. But every woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered disgraces her head, for it is the same as if she were shaven. For if a woman is not covered, let her be shaven. But if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. A man indeed ought not to cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God. But woman is the glory of man. For man was not created for woman, but woman for man. This is why the woman ought to have a sign of authority over her head, because of the angels.
>Corinthians, chapter 11.

>If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife— with the wife of his neighbour—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.”
> Leviticus 20:10:
Descriptive i'm sure.

>the violence in the old testament is DESCRIPTIVE, it is not commanding anything, but describing, and if there is any commanding, its certain individuals

Blatantly false

No, both the Bible and Koran are full of Abrahamic and Semitic brutal values. The only difference is that Christians are hypocrites who no longer do what is said in their holy book and have submitted to the current Liberal/Capitalist zeitgeist while Muslims didn't.

Meanwhile Deus Vult is just a meme, of course.

Nothing to do with this culture wars thing, the West was never here, never saw a thing. Carry on frolicking in your vile hatred, children.

The Rabbi who I've encountered talking about this subject explained OT violence like this,
>Harsh bronze age society

>The Old Testament isn't just a holy text but also a historical one so a lot of the war and genocide ordered by God is just the Jews justifying and glorifying their actions, some of which never even happened

>responding to copypasta

I agree with you, but that wasn't a very good example. It could easily be an observation, as
>they shall surely be put to death
is not a direct command, and is only really saying what will happen to them.

Why would a rabbi say something like this? Doesn't it discredit the Torah?

Nothe really. You can see and acknowledge the theological ideas and lessons within the old testament while simultaneously understanding that a lot of the Torah is Jewish history with A LOT of propaganda tossed in there.

The OT is both a holy book and a history book. A wonky take at their history mind you but history nonetheless.

Yeah I gotta see your opinion now since you imply that you know the context of a 2000 year old desert survival manual.

>Richard Spencer
You're a complete fool if you accept anything that scam artist says.

...

euroboos are just rooting for their own geohistorical sportsball team, there is no oddities here.

You are reading out of the context, the god is stating the laws, not what will happend to them in the end. Read Leviticus 20 from start to finish

Fags must be killed, per O.T. sharia

"When Iranians learn to behave like Swedes, I will behave like the King of Sweden." - Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, Shah of Iran

>I like it when my side wins
>I don't like it when my side loses

huh wow

Iran isn't Sweden and the Shah was a Western puppet for economic interests, who kept his power through the use of CIA kidnapping and torture on the Socialists and Ayatollahs. Even the secular Iranians today say they will stand with the Ayatollahs if America invades to reinstall that literal tool. The Shah was to Iran what the Al-Sauds are to Arabia. Good riddance to him and good on the Iranians for removing him.

Jesus abolished the law of the old testament. That was the law on how the Israelites should live, in their own country, waiting for the coming of Christ. Jesus never said to stone people to death. Mohammad was a warlord the spread Islam by the sword. So, you can compare violence between the books, but it's context that matters. It was a very different time, and anyone who says" well, in old testament times" is an idiot. We're not in old testament times, so it doesn't matter. Stop being an ass.

The gods in question, and their worshippers, sacrificed children alive.

Nobody even brought up the New Testament? The OP is talking about OT violence versus the Qurans.

>Christians are hypocrites
Incorrect. Read the texts you are criticizing, please.

Atheists thinking that Jewish laws apply to Christians is requiring that the NT be mentioned.
In your awful STEMsperg terms: it's like applying a user guide for a PS1 to a PS4.

>Jesus abolished the law of the old testament
No he didn't. He literally said that OT is the word of God. Don't lie.

Not that user but there is literally an ongoing joke about how Jesus retconned the old testament because that is exactly what he did hence why it's called the OLD testament. Jesus' brings in the new covenant. There's a reason Catholics can eat pork, it's because we've abandoned everything about the OT save for the 10 commandments.

The only thing Jesus said to hold onto in regards to the old laws is the 10 commandments.

no, Christians love to talk about how Jesus fixed the Old Testament, or, in other words, obsoleted the horribly offensive parts about slavery, keeping women in their place, killing gays, etc. In fact, he did no such thing.

I’ll be doing two things here:

Show you that Jesus fully supported everything in the Old Testament
Show you exactly how horrible that is.
So first, here is Jesus speaking specifically on the topic of Old Testament teachings:

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” — Matthew 5:18-19
“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)
“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John7:19)
Keep in mind, this is Jesus Christ saying this–in the Bible that all Christians own and cherish. Don’t take my word for it; look it up–it’s all there.

So now that we understand that he fully supported what’s in the Old Testament, let’s take a look at what he actually just commanded us to uphold:

BLASPHEMY IS PUNISHABLE BY DEATH

One who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall be put to death; the whole congregation shall stone the blasphemer. Aliens as well as citizens, when they blaspheme the Name, shall be put to death. (NRSV) — Leviticus 24:16
CHEATERS MUST DIE

If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. (NIV) — Leviticus 20:10
DISHONORING YOUR MOTHER OR FATHER IS PUNISHABLE BY DEATH

Anyone who dishonors father or mother must be put to death. Such a person is guilty of a capital offense. (NLT) — Leviticus 20:9
PEOPLE WHO WORK ON SUNDAY SHOULD BE KILLED

You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day must be a Sabbath day of complete rest, a holy day dedicated to the LORD. Anyone who works on that day must be put to death. (NLT) — Exodus 35:2
IF A WOMAN IS NOT A VIRGIN WHEN SHE GETS MARRIED, SHE HAS TO DIE

“If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and detests her, and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings a bad name on her, and says, ‘I took this woman, and when I came to her I found she was not a virgin,’ … and evidences of virginity are not found for the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones … (NKJV) — Deuteronomy 22:13-14,20-21

THERE’S NOTHING WRONG WITH SLAVERY

Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. (NIV) — Leviticus 25:44
GAYS SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. (NRSV) — Leviticus 20:13
WOMEN SHOULD SHUT THE HELL UP AND DO AS THEY’RE TOLD

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. (NIV) — Timothy 2:11-12
Keep in mind, these aren’t suggestions. They’re not optional. Remember what Jesus said, “Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven…” He also said they’re not open to any personal interpretation. It’s all very clear to anyone willing to actually read their Bible.

This remarkable document is a part of a larger genre of Christian literature. Although dated 1165, the document which is in the hands of the family of the late Karim Hakkoum of Portland, Oregon, apparently was owned and perhaps copied by his father in 1914 in Aleppo, Syria.

The Monk-- We do not forbid (eating) the meat. But we intend to have a light life, not material, in order to be nearer to God by lightening our body. The iron is purified from its impurities the closer it is to the fire. And as water becomes clearer, the water allows the sunlight to penetrate (it)--Don't you see that the rays let the light pierce through as far as they're thin and transparent? Don't you know that steam rising from the ground outshines the sunlight? The reason, O Prince, that is inside of us from God, becomes dark with luxurious life, and it keeps us away from God at the range of its darkness. And with our distance from God we attach ourselves to the corporal matters and to the love of the actual life. We avoid not only meat and women, but all corporal delights and everything that charms the five faculties. We expect, by using these privations, to obtain the graces of God in His eternal kingdom. He said,"you will not get the joy in the eternal world, if you don't endure the sorrows and difficulties in the perishable world."

sourcebooks.fordham.edu/source/christ-muslim-debate.asp

Sahih International: Then We sent following their footsteps Our messengers and followed [them] with Jesus, the son of Mary, and gave him the Gospel. And We placed in the hearts of those who followed him compassion and mercy and monasticism, which they innovated; We did not prescribe it for them except [that they did so] seeking the approval of Allah. But they did not observe it with due observance. So We gave the ones who believed among them their reward, but many of them are defiantly disobedient.

You're such an idiot I'm not even sure I want to correct everything wrong with your post because I'm on mobile and that would take some time with these forsaken Samsung keys but you somehow managed to prove my point in an attempt to prove me wrong.
Oh wait your a copy-pasting troll. Jokes on me then. Good bait.

Not an argument. Jesus wasn't the love-all Pacifist Hippie you make him out to be. He was an Abrahamic Jewish Rabbi prophet who preached the same Semitic values the Talmud and Koran preach.

christianity was departure from judaism, while islam was a return to form. It is exactly like how film trilogies, majority of which are jewish in production/acting/directing/etc , operate.

>litteraly a verse commending to kill gays
>muh descriptive violence
Fucking brainlet

Yes, yes. Keep parroting that cognitive dissonance nonsense.

what does it matter? People who want to be violent will find passages in either book to justify their violence. People who want to be peace and loving will find passages in either book to be peace and loving.

You're acting like crusaders didn't try to bend over backwards to use religion to justify their violence, or George Bush didn't say that he prayed and God commanded him to invade Iraq.

Or that Israeli zionists don't use the "G-d promised me this land" as an excuse for their violence and landgrabbing.

Also, the violence in the old testament is because God commands the israelites to carry out genocides multiple times, and the laws of moses command stoning for simple thins like collecting firewood on a saturday.

Like it or not, both religious texts are self contradictory at points because they were written over a wide era, and both contain peaceful and violent passages.

A peaceful person will always find passages to justify his peacefulness, and a violent person will always find violent passages in his holy text to justify his position, regardless of whether he is muslim or christian.

And before you go all "muh mudslimes" on me, I'm a conservative catholic christian who's not a stormfag.

imuhamad was a jewaboo, who when he couldn't infiltrate their secret club, made his own,with black jack and hookers, and the same rules were lifted directly from judaism. Christianity was rebellion and islam was counter rebellion.reactionary to the source material.

>muhamad was a jewaboo,

he wasn't a jewaboo, he was a nestorian arab nationalist who got pissed at all the euro-crap infiltrating his semitic religion.

A jewaboo would never claim Jesus was a prophet and the messiah and repeatedly condemn the jews saying "the closest to you are christians, and the most distant are the jews"

>Jesus wasn't the love-all Pacifist Hippie you make him out to be.
Yes he was. Even his fucking contemporaries and apostles acknowledged this.
You're an idiot, please buy a book on basic Christian shit, preferably something Catholic or Orthodox instead of going to whatever underage, unresearched, Atheist page you just visited (or possibly some insane fundie protestant page) to copy and paste all those hilariously out of context NT passages.

Heres a tip: notice how Jesus refers to the commandments as the "law" and that when Jesus speaks of the law within the context of the OT he means the law Moses passed down A.K.A the ten commandments.

I honestly shouldn't be responding to bait but here I am.

It is, but there's a difference.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. (Romans 10:4)

Christ came to fulfill the law. He presented himself as the sacrifice for man and created the new covenant. Righteousness is through Christ, not through the law. That doesn't mean fornication is justified, but it means that you can still be saved through faith, and shouldn't be punished through the state. All will be judged.

No true whatsoever. Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God. He said, ‘The Scripture cannot be broken’ (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as ‘the commandment of God’ (Matthew 15:3) and as the ‘Word of God’ (Mark 7:13). He also indicated that it was indestructible: ‘Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished’ (Matthew 5:18).

When dealing with the people of his day, whether it was with the disciples or religious rulers, Jesus constantly referred to the Old Testament: ‘Have you not read that which was spoken to you by God?’ (Matthew 22:31); ‘Yea; and have you never read, “Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babes thou has prepared praise for thyself”?’ (Matthew 21:16, citing Psalm 8:2); and ‘Have you not read what David did?’ (Matthew 12:3). Examples could be multiplied to demonstrate that Jesus was conversant with the Old Testament and its content. He quoted from it often and he trusted it totally.

Throughout the Gospels, we find Jesus confirming many of the accounts in the Old Testament, such as the destruction of Sodom and the death of Lot’s wife (Luke 17:29, 32) the murder of Abel by his brother Cain (Luke 11:51), the calling of Moses (Mark 12:26), and the manna given in the wilderness (John 6:31–51).

The list of examples goes on, and the evidence is clear: Jesus saw the Old Testament as being God’s Word, and his attitude toward it was nothing less than total trust. Many people want to accept Jesus, yet they reject a large portion of the Old Testament. Either Jesus knew what he was talking about, or he didn’t. If a person believes in Jesus Christ, he should be consistent and believe that the Old Testament and its accounts are correct. Christians don't follow it today simply because it is morally incorrect to Western Liberal values.

You are being hypocritical, for Islamic verses are mostly out of context. You can't just read a single verse whilst neglecting the whole chapter.

You speak of Jesus as if he's a prophet. Jesus Is God. And, he fulfilled the law. He introduced a new covenant of righteousness through faith, not by works. It makes the laws, not the meaning, of the old testament obsolete, and it doesn't make it not the word of God.

Oh fuck off already.

You are correct. Most of the points people make about Islam are out of context and are incorrect, but I still disagree with the religion.

Yawn* anger chimpout, nothing of substance.

Refute my points then

>atheists try to read the bible
lmao
You literally cannot.

No, the OT is not law for the most part to Christians. Jewish laws apply to Jews. That is how it works.

Where did you get that from, /r/theresnofuckingodpraisesatan? Nice numbers btw

I DONT UNDERSTAND SCRIPTURE SO ITS JUST COGNITIVE DISSONANCE

There are no points there. Jesus being God doesn't debunk the fact he believed the Old Testament should be followed by Christians and that it's inarguable and not optional. Him being God actually makes it worse, since that will imply the Old Testament was from his own word and his own laws since he is God.

Christians have never fucking followed OT laws you stupid child.

No, Christ did not believe that. Holy shit are you a loose-weight.

Yeah, he said they should be followed. I said that. But wouldn't it defeat the whole message of "love each other as I have loved you" if he also wanted people to stone those who sin? He fulfilled the law, meaning it doesn't have to be followed as law. He also didn't abolish it. It's still the word of God, and it's still true. Many of the things in the law, like the purity laws, the laws about not cutting your hair, and about clothing, were made to distinguish the Israelites from the surrounding nations and to prevent them from doing harmful things (they didn't have the knowledge we have today, like germ theory). It's clear to me that you haven't studied the Bible, just have researched supposed errors in it. Thank you for the debate though, you have encouraged me to do more research. Have a lovely day ^-^

Yes they have. It's called Canon law.

why were the posts deleted? trolling? oh well.

Typos.

No. You don't understand Christianity, at all.

More like your entire fucking posts were incorrect and you're trying to save face like the damned snake you are.

>damned snake
>user was just Satan all along
It would explain why the bait was so enticing despite the better of us knowing that it was jn fact, bait.
Or at least I hope it was, I refuse to believe someone is that dumb or severely scripturally inept.

>i often see liberals bring up the violence of the old testament to justify the violence in the quran..

no you don't you liar

Not at all. I deleted one of my posts because of a typo then posted it again, while correcting it again.

Christian doublethink at its finest.

I enjoyed it as well. Watching Christians spouting hogwash about their religion being different from Judaism and Islam was thought provoking. I have no problem with Christians and Christianity, just don't be a hypocrite by following parts of the Bible you like while ignoring the ones that are incompatible with Western Liberal values so you can pander to Liberals and Secularists. Either follow your religion to a tee, or stop playing pretend and become an apostate. Have a lovely day too.

Politically I'd call myself a paleocon, more on the side of libertarian. Neocons, (actual) racial supremacists, extreme libertarians, and liberals are all pretty dumb. I don't apologize to any of them.

Muslims did too actually for a long ass time until the last century. Islamic history is kinda like an inside-out version of Christianity. They exploded out of Arabia and then became docile for a while and now they're fucking shit up again. Whereas Christianity was pretty docile and then became very violent for a long time and has been neutered for somewhere close to a hundred years now.

tell yourself that why don't you
>ignoring parts
We aren't.
We're ignoring the parts that don't apply to Christians.
If you are a Christian, then OT laws do not apply to you, because you have taken part in the New Covenant.
Think of it as Jesus being a superjew or something that without limit enacts the daily rites and rituals that a good Jew must act out, but for all Christians. Fucking hell, why you keep spewing ignorance? If you actually read the fucking Bible instead simply copy-pasted nonsense from your fedorasite, maybe you would understand that.

Oh wait, fedoralords can't understand Christianity.

>don't be a hypocrite by following parts of the Bible
Once again fuck off.
Christians don't follow the OT laws save for the commandments. You can find this information anywhere. Stop baiting.

Most of the points people make about Islam are actually shit that's in hadiths.

But we find in the old testamemt the geneology of ideas don't we

the Quran isn't as violent as most people think, sure it's monstrously violent in western standards but it's not that unfairly violent

>inb4 jpeg with fake verses in it

>he was a nestorian arab nationalist

He was an extreme anti-nationalist

Moron.

The New Testament explicitly tells you that the rules have changed, that's why there's a difference between Christians and Jews.

Then why did he act contrary to the OT by sparing the prostitute?

Why do Christians still keep the old testament?

I'm not a Christian, dumbass. I was simply pointing out how that verse could be interpreted as observant.

Because everything but the laws still apply to Christians?

It was a trap (notice no naked man was there?). Kill her, and lose sympathy with the crowd. Do not condemn her, and do not follow the Law of Moses.

Jesus first wrote on the ground in stone, with his finger. Likely the 10 commandments. Some say it was a list of sins the audience had committed.

One by one the audience crept away, oldest to youngest.

They had unclean hands. They could not carry out the punishment on the adulteress because of their unrighteousness.

After they all left, Jesus, who could have condemned her and killed her, instead forgave her and told her to stop committing adultery.

Jesus did not come to condemn the world, but to save it.

Jesus did not fix the Old Covenant.

Jesus instituted a New Covenant, unlike the Old Covenant He instituted with the Hebrews 1500 years prior.

When Jesus is the King of your country, and defeats your enemies for you, and causes your crops to grow, and gives you rules to follow at pain of death, you follow those rules, at pain of death.

None of that has anything to do with you.

Yes, Jesus taught the Law of Moses, and then some. Because the world was following the gospel of satan: eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and thus be like God.

Jesus showed them how they were not like God, in the slightest, and could not even follow the Laws God gave Moses.

And even if they could, there was given to them another laundry list of things they would have to do to "be like God".

And none of them could do either. They could never be like God through their knowledge of good and evil.

Hence the New Covenant, which did not exist prior to the death of Jesus, which relies on God's mercy and grace, and not on mankind's performance, under the Law, or in any other way.

No, He's not. He drowned the world, killing all land creatures, including humanoid land creatures. He killed 185,000 soldiers of Sennacherib in an instant, overnight. And he will kill enough muslims that it takes the Jews 7 months to bury the dead.

You mistake the Lamb of God for the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the High Priest and Lord of Hosts.

>the violence in the old testament is DESCRIPTIVE, it is not commanding anything

you're retarded. It absolutely does.

Of course He did. Jesus is God. He's not going to contradict Himself.

That you do not think the Judge of the Universe has the death penalty at His hand is ponderous.

>they do

TA answers this question easily enough. "Old Law is like the teacher of children; whereas the New Law is the law of perfection."

Just as what you were taught in 1st grade still has some applicability, you no longer get nap time when you are 17 and learning calculus.

Jesus died to set men free, including being free from being under the Law.

By dying in Christ, I am dead to the Law. And the Law does not pursue dead men.

there's nothing wrong with the Law of God; there is something seriously wrong with humanity. That is what the Law of God is intended to demonstrate to you. That you are broken, and can never be like God on your own.

And in your despair, that you should turn to Jesus as savior, and beg for His mercy and grace, which He will give you.