Considering Dothraki represent Mongols, Greyjoys Vikings, other armies are western and Unsullied are probably some Persian Immortals ripoff, is the combat/war in GoT portrayed historically accurate?
I can't imagine nomadic mongols and uptight immortals living together, they would kill each other
Why even ask such a stupid question? It's obviously not accurate
Julian Edwards
no
Ethan Stewart
>is the combat/war in GoT portrayed historically accurate?
Are you fucking trolling kid? /GOT/ threads on TV turn into the biggest historical nippick slap fights on the internet. From Viking longships yo Ancient Greek phalanx to Steppe-like Calvary who charged with out arrow cover and without skirmishing to giant fantasy Medieval crossbows ... I'm not even that knowledgeable and I can point out the retardation. Effort in parity with history was not significant to martin. Tolkein he is not.
Noah Butler
>is "X" portrayed historically accurate? >GoT No.
Carter Edwards
While they’re great books, GRRM isn’t very knowledgeable when it comes to history, as evidenced by him having unarmored Dothraki (who are more like American Plains Indians then Mongols) defeating technologically advanced and armored armies, warriors wearing copper armor, the Riverlands having a weak military, calling torsion catapults trebuchets, thinking castles are simply for hiding in, rams on Viking type longboats, etc.
Nolan Rodriguez
>I can't imagine nomadic mongols and uptight immortals living together, they would kill each other
The Unsullied are apolitical and the Dothraki are primitives awed by Daenerys' magic and her dragons, so they would obey her orders not to start shit.
Nolan Price
GoT isn't historically accurate in the show. Dothraki isn't specially mongols but an amalgamation of various steppe peoples, including Huns, Scythians, Turkics, Mongols etc.
However Iranians used steppe archer auxiliaries with their more disciplined standing armies, it worked just fine. Auxiliary armies in fact were very effective often, that's why they were preferred by Romans, their loyalty laid with generals and they didn't have attachment to particular places they were invading.
Angel Mitchell
Stark of the North = Romano-British / Scottish / Moscovy
Arryn of the Vale = Celtic Wales / Swiss
Tully of the Riverlands = Medieval English
Greyjoy of the Iron Islands = Viking Age Scandinavians
Lannister of the Westerlands = Renaissance Italy
Baratheon of the Stormlands = Tudor England
Tyrell of the Reach = Carolingian French
Nymeros-Martell of Dorne = Post-Reconquista Spain / Norman Sicily
Targaryen of the Crownlands = Byzantine Empire
Wildings = Roman Era Germanic tribes / N.American Indians
Nathaniel Reed
...
Logan James
Seeing as how feudal medieval armies were directly tied to the amount of available farmland, the theoretical military strength of the various duchies in Westeros:
1. Reach (by a long shot) 2. North (poorer farming due to climate, compensated by huge area) 3. Riverlands (best farmlands after the Reach, limited by smaller size) 4. Vale (limited farmlands due to mountainous terrain but excellent climatic conditions) 5. Westerlands (gold mines compensating for limited available farmland) 6. Crownlands (very small in size but rich farmlands and good climate) 7. Stormlands (heavily wooded and hilly terrain + very wet climate limits amount of available farming) 8. Iron Islands (small population and tiny area greatly limits farming, compensated by mining and overseas trade/raiding) 9. Dorne (small population, arid climate greatly limits farming)
Samuel Long
Inability to respond noted and as such, I graciously accept your surrender.
Camden Morgan
I always thought of the Westerlands as well-off Irish. Wish they had used Irish accents
In general I wish they had gotten a bit more into the accent/dialect bit representing regions, would've made the series a lot more interesting. Vale could've been East Anglian but then they'd sound kind of retarded
Landon Morris
>Stark Old German and Old English >Arryn Hebrew etymology >Tully Irish or Scottish >Greyjoy English >Lannister English etymology >Baratheon Greek etymology >Tyrell French >Martell medieval French and Latin >Targaryen fantasy bullshit, maybe welsh?
Liam Wilson
>Charlemagne's France losing a war to Renaissance Italy
Lmao
Jack Carter
> I always thought of the Westerlands as well-off Irish.
The Westerlands / Lannisters are presented as rich and cultured, on par with the Reach and Crownlands as the epitome of civilized southron culture.
> In general I wish they had gotten a bit more into the accent/dialect bit representing regions
I would have liked to hear that as it would have given the show more depth but if they did, they would have needed to bring in actors from all over Europe with noticeable accents, (such as French actors for the Tyrells, Slavs for the Northmen, etc.) as nobody but the British gives a fuck or would notice the slightly dissimilar dialects in the UK.
Tyler Peterson
It's a more a show problem to be honest. I don't think GRRM made these errors, except one or two.
Easton Johnson
>>Arryn >Hebrew etymology
Jaxson Hughes
Not him, but as a guy who read the first four books and never got too interested in the show, GRRM has plenty of errors in his own name. My personal favorite is how the bronze age at bestish wildlings manage to shoot and kill people on top of a 700 foot tall wall with their little shit bows.
Luke Roberts
The shitty tv show clearly doesn’t give a fuck about anything but I was talking about the books.
Adam Miller
Alright then.
I would just like to ask what do you mean about "castle are for hiding" ?
Joseph Ross
In the books it literally says the arrows never even reach near the top and the watch are safe, are you sure you read the book?
Landon White
>Charlemagne's France losing a war to Renaissance Italy
I’m talking about the books, showfag and it’s just a broad brush way of characterizing the various groups in Westeros.
Carter Johnson
On Brother of the Knights Watch on top of the Wall was killed by a Wilding arrow, though it's presented as dumb luck.
Cooper Richardson
>manwoody
Jordan Bell
GRRM literally pointedül out Plains Indians as part of the Dothraki inspiration
Adrian Rivera
>I would just like to ask what do you mean about "castle are for hiding" ?
Edmure Tully getting chewed out by King Robb Stark after defeating the Lannisters at Stone Mill.
Robb complains that he told Edmure to “hold Riverrun” but Edmure instead sallied out and stopped Tywin Lannister, blowing Robb’s plan to ambush the Lannister forces in the Westerlands after they had bypassed Riverrun.
Except Edmure did EXACTLY what any competent commander would do; use the castle as secure base of operations to _take the fight to the enemy_ and only retreat behind it’s walls if necessary.
Castles were built to control the surrounding territory, not for hiding in while giving the enemy a blank check to freely roam around and fuck up everything around it.
Carter Myers
The Dothraki are an amalgamation of various nomadic peoples but GRRM clearly wanted the reader to see them as an analog for the Mongols, despite them not being capable of destroying civilized armies they way he presented them (i.e. no armor, little of any organization, etc).
>I can't imagine nomadic mongols and uptight immortals living together, they would kill each other
Why not? Unsullied are mercenaries and would fight with just about anyone. They all serve the same master anyway.
Jonathan Hall
Only the show makes them supersoldiers or some shit. In essos they're more of a raiding nuisance. They were effective in harassing small city states further east but get stumped by the Slavers and the Ex-Valyrian city states. The lightly armored unsullied saw them off.
Cooper Kelly
Yeah but the bow was the size of a ballista and was fired by a giant.
Isaiah Sullivan
They only became super soldiers this season. If I remember correctly, in one of the earlier seasons Jorah got into a fight with a dothraki and he couldn't he even get through his armor.
Evan Allen
it just gets better
Caleb Cook
>If I remember correctly, in one of the earlier seasons Jorah got into a fight with a dothraki and he couldn't he even get through his armor. Armor is the only thing that saved him though, that Dothraki pushed his shit hard before muh westerosi steel. On unrelated note, I've yet to see show Jorah actually win against someone without getting BTFO beforehand
Daniel Collins
>In essos they're more of a raiding nuisance.
All the Free Cities pay off the Dothraki to leave them alone, the city of Qohor almost fell to the Dothraki if not for the stand of the Unsullied, Vaes Dothrak is filled with looted statues from the dozens of cities sacked by the Dothraki, etc.
None of that would have been possible by a people who are essentially North American Plains Indians.
Oliver Gutierrez
I like that they at least attempted to form pikelines. And the dragonfire gave us a nice excuse for having them break formation and for the battle to devolve into melee.
Thomas Adams
>All the Free Cities pay off the Dothraki to leave them alone Because the Free Cities are primarily mercantile. Sure, they could hire an army of Unsullied to kill them every few years, but you'd have to go through the vast financial/logistical effort of raising an army while doubtlessly experiencing some disruption in trade. It's probably far cheaper to pay them to fuck off.
The Chinese also had a similar policy for most of their existence - while they'd occasionally step in and defeat steppe nomads when united, most of the time it's cheaper just to pay them off to fight each other than to have to raise an army and go through all the logistical loopholes of moving them to the North.
Nicholas Jones
>only became super soldiers this season Wut? Robert Baratheon was worried enough about them crossing the sea that he tried to assasinate Danerys.
Jeremiah Nelson
ITT all the fucking newfags take the bait
Chase White
The Greyjoys are more like a Viking-Spartan hybrid that wage holy war.
Aaron Lopez
I always thought of the wildlings as Irish desu
Dominic Brown
No. Not even in the books. It has fucking dragons, for example, that should be enough of a hint.
Evan Campbell
I'd argue Dorne does more overseas trading, with better access to the exotic goods of Essos, and the Greenblood stretchs long enough for the Dornish to have more farmland than the Ironborn.
James Jones
>Edmure Tully getting chewed out by King Robb Stark after defeating the Lannisters at Stone Mill. >Robb complains that he told Edmure to “hold Riverrun” but Edmure instead sallied out and stopped Tywin Lannister, blowing Robb’s plan to ambush the Lannister forces in the Westerlands after they had bypassed Riverrun. This pissed me off because he DIDNT TELL TULLY WHAT HIS PLAN WAS!
Jordan Rivera
Tully remind me of the Habsburgs in Hungary. The trout has swum up so many rivers and leapt on so many plates that it's a wonder half the realm's sigils don't have fins by now.
Charles Foster
robert made it clear that he didin't see her as a threath but acknowledged she could become one and so attempted to kill her
Jason Powell
The more you read the books the more you realize that point of view characters are always wrong, always being deceived and are always taking the bait, no matter how confident they seem in their thinking. At least in that very chapter, 'off screen' they can be sensible again.
Blake Thomas
What Dorne is mentioned to produce vineyard and all the exotic fruit in westeros, it's clearly less arid than you imagine (at least some parts). Also ironborn barely trade nor are they near any important trade route. Dorne > Ironborn this can't be debated and they may be above Stormlands too.
Also I don't see why Vales climate would be better than the West. The West has probably more and better farmland. Th Vale is in a better position for trade and has one of the biggest port cities in the continent, tho, so you decide.
Josiah Russell
He didn't worry about Daenerys having dothrakis, he worried about Daenerys having Drogo and eventually his son. He was worried about the Targaryen line surviving.
Kayden Sullivan
More like just vikings but being supah ebin and with le cthulu.
Owen Morales
Westerlands have fertile lands as well though, the majority of their wealth comes from trading, not the gold mines
Ryan Baker
Another case of confusing "having an idea" with "having a plan".
Jayden Taylor
>Dothraki represent Mongols, Greyjoys Vikings, other armies are western and Unsullied are probably some Persian Immortals
Julian Butler
In the show.
In the books it was a regular arrow
Samuel Reed
Not him, but yes, you're right.
Martin did say that he went a bit overboard with the height of the Wall and that distances between places are not always correct and that should be considered more as a ballpark figure.
Camden Green
No, light calvary charging head on into a shield wall is suicide. If the Dothraki are supposed to be mongols then they should have harassed the Lannisters shield wall with dragonfire and arrows until they either broke ranks to flee or charge them.
Hell the only time Mongols truly lost was against Mamluks who used the same calvary hit and ambush tactics and had twice as many soldiers as the mongol force.
Aiden Barnes
I hate this board.
Julian Thompson
Illyrio talks about this when Tyrion tells them they could just destroy them, that it would be too much of a bother and it's cheaper just to pay them off
Daniel Flores
Jorah with a boner can kill anything.
Jordan Foster
I recall some article had Martin annoyed at the concept art for the Wall only to be reminded that it was accurate to his 700 ft claim.
Blake Edwards
>>All the Free Cities pay off the Dothraki to leave them alone >Because the Free Cities are primarily mercantile.
Pentos controls a vast area beyond the walls of the city where they grow all their crops, (Illyrio himself owns assloads of acreage) as does Norvos and Qohor and Volantis controls most of the drainage basin of the lower Rhoyne and has a substantial army, yet when Jon Connington & Co. are sailing downriver, the Volantines are shitting their pants because a Dothraki khalasar is roaming along the east bank of the river.
John Murphy
>The Greyjoys are more like a Viking-Spartan hybrid that wage holy war.
The Ironborn are nowhere near as unified and organized as the Spartans, though I'll agree there's a fundi religious element to them that the Scandinavians didn't have.
Jason Johnson
>I've yet to see show Jorah actually win against someone without getting BTFO beforehand
Well yeah, he's the Worf
Anthony Barnes
Also the mongol troops taaked with dealing the charge were relatively heavy and had long spears, not retarded khopeshes.
Lincoln Scott
>retarded khopeshes Insult the khopesh ONE MORE TIME AND FUCKIN SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
Leo Turner
No, you see, there's normal khopesh (e.g. egyptian) and retarded khopesh (e.g. dothraki).
Gavin Williams
> I'd argue Dorne does more overseas trading, with better access to the exotic goods of Essos,
The Ironborn are defined by the ships and ever since the Targaryens straightened their shit out, (and Robert also) a lot of their “GDP” comes from peaceful long range maritime trading, while there’s little reference to Dornish shipping.
> and the Greenblood stretchs long enough for the Dornish to have more farmland than the Ironborn.
Assuming they’ve got a well developed irrigation system, (which is likely) then I supposed the Dornish could produce more food then the Ironborn, with the local climate clearly playing a part; the Iron Islands probably have a lot moors and heaths, that make for poor farming.
Thought I’d suggest that if Westeros is the size of S.America, then the combined Iron Islands are roughly the size of Ireland and that’s a lot of farmland.
Brody Morris
Why does nobody care about sweet robin? He has the strongest army in westeros and most likely all the food Also who's ruling the riverlands Who do the Yronwoods back since they most likely hold dorne Why aren't the dothraki raping the reach like they usually would Wouldn't the north be hyper pissed at jon for bending the knee
Asher Long
Ironborn fish instead of farming They're literally a bunch of miners and fishermen LARPing as vikings because their great grand daddys did it
Carter Morris
>a lot of their “GDP” comes from peaceful long range maritime trading, while there’s little reference to Dornish shipping
There's several mentions of dornish merchants in the books, you find them in several ports of Essos and Westeros. Correct me if I'm forgetting one but I can't remember a single mention of ironborn merchants. Even the ship Theon takes to Pyke wasn't an ironborn merchantship. I mean ironborn merchants sure exist but they're not a factor. Their boats are to fish and war and probably maintained by plot magic.
Benjamin Allen
Oh ok.
The really stupid thing about the arakh is that it's a shotel they swing like a khopesh. Which just makes no goddamn sense at all really.
Gavin Turner
>that much green and fields
This is wrong. The land there is specifically mentioned to be very bad and barely useful, half the island should be a rocky wasteland.
Brody Collins
Major fuck up by GRRM; if Edmure isn’t in on the plan and just hides in his castle, then the Lannisters will only suffer minor loses to the element left behind to besiege Riverrun and even assuming Robb’s plan to ambush Tywin works, (probably does) Tywin can retreat back the way he came while Edmure just sits on his hands and does fuck all.
There’s no excuse for Robb leaving his uncle and primary bannerman in the dark and clearly the plan should have been for Edmure to feign retreat and only hold up in Riverrun until Robb’s ambush happens, then Edmure and his forces would pour out of Riverrun and take Tywin in the back.
GRRM should have made Edmure far more arrogant, giving justification for him fucking up the plan by seeking out personal glory, then his cunt of a sister would have been justified in giving him shit about it...
Connor Mitchell
>WE DO NOT SOW >Farms everywhere
Jason Hernandez
Martin/Rob's plan probably included Tywin being captured in an ambush like Jaime. Because we all know that ambushes are invincible.
Julian Cruz
>Tully remind me of the Habsburgs in Hungary.
The Riverlands seem to be the most feudal with the Tullys having fairly loose control (i,e the Frays and such) but then many of the Tully bannermen were kings in their own right back in oldy timey days and with the "Ironborn Occupation", this would have fostered an independence minded nobility, so maybe the Riverlands is more like Poland? (they seem to get invaded just as much…)
Christopher Gray
>The more you read the books the more you realize that point of view characters are always wrong
I wouldn't say "wrong" but that the POV style of the books, we're not getting the whole picture, only that particular character's take on it.
Landon Collins
>not breaker of chairs cant even execute a shit meme correctly
Jose Moore
>The Riverlands seem to be the most feudal with the Tullys having fairly loose control (i,e the Frays and such)
Correct me if this is specifically confirmed somewhere, but it looks more like Tully got POV attention that other houses didn't. Nobility in the North looks highly fragmented too for the same reason (you even have skirmishing between lords) and although they mostly are super loyal to Starks except for Boltons.
Mason Baker
I disagree on some of them. Stark = Not wildling, very feudal but still not quite the feudal realms of the South with the strongest desire for independence/disconnection from the Iron throne. Appropriate historical example, to a limited example would be be Anglo-Saxon England and to a greater extent a mixture of lowland and highland scots. Not quite as "foreign" as the highlanders, but not quite as "familiar" as the lowlananders. (from a british perspective) Generally the whole wildling/non-wildling dynamic is the highland scots vs the rest of Britain. People are just thrown off by the Wall being inspired by Hadrians wall and thin scots = wildlings and york or something = starks. >Riverlands Ukraine. Very fertile, a breadbasket, but geopolitically extremely vulnerable. >Baratheon Prussia/Germany/Teutons. "Strong Martial traditions", no cities and a lack of commerce. Basically the meme conception of Germany. >Wildings See Stark bit.
Zachary Peterson
His plan was to bait tywin into a trap while stannis too kinglanding and won the war If he was a bit more clear with instructions to leave riverrun after a bit he would have won Also edmure in general is supposed to be a fuck up Thats why blackfish shit talks him on the regular
Josiah Wright
>Dorne is mentioned to produce vineyard and all the exotic fruit in westeros, it's clearly less arid than you imagine (at least some parts).
> Also ironborn barely trade nor are they near any important trade route.
Nonsense, the Ironborn are defined by the ships, they're literally the Vikings of Westeros + Late Renaissance ship technology.
Dorne > Ironborn this can't be debated and they may be above Stormlands too.
More nonsense, while the Stormlands are hilly, I'd suggest many valleys are akin to the Willamette Valley in Oregon (which is very productive) with similar conditions in the Vale.
>Also I don't see why Vales climate would be better than the West. The West has probably more and better farmland.
Climatically, I'd say the Westerlands would be more like Scotland, plus mountains.
Evan Scott
>Westerlands have fertile lands as well though, the majority of their wealth comes from trading, not the gold mines
Gold is a defining characteristic of the Lannisters and the Westerlands are mountainous as fuck.
Cooper Price
Wrong in their assumptions I meant, not out of stupidity [not always at least] but out of lack of information or a leap of logic.
Juan Morgan
>Nonsense, the Ironborn are defined by the ships, they're literally the Vikings of Westeros + Late Renaissance ship technology. War (and fishing) ships, not trade ships. If you want to adapt them to realistic forces, they lose most of them. Yes I know real vikings were mainly traders but please consider that the ironborn are meme vikings. If nobody can find me some exmples of the ironborn having an inportant merchant fleet, the greyjoy simply lose their massive fleet in my take of a westeros with realistic forces.
>Climatically, I'd say the Westerlands would be more like Scotland, plus mountains. Why? It's way more big than Scotland, there's plenty of space for fertile valleys.
James Watson
...
Joseph Ortiz
Not really how arakhs are.
Xavier Cox
You forget that the [spoiler]mines at casterly rock had run out[/spoiler]
Levi Richardson
Lets point out some places where the first westerosi civilizations would get set up I think somewhere arounf the mander river, the fingers and the trident wouldbe good places
Ethan Perry
Showfaggots get out. Apparently Tyrell richness also comes from gold mines in the show for [insert reason].
Thomas Sanders
When Aeron the Fundie goes to House Goodbrother’s castle, it’s so far inland that he can’t see or smell the sea and mentions the peasants there mine and farm for a living.
Evan Murphy
Only in the show The mines in the books are still perfectly fine
Julian Jones
>Aeron the Fundie Who? Must be some piss poor farming then.
Jayden Murphy
Actually Kings Landing (probably a bit more up, maybe Harrenhal) is ironically a good place since it's connected by river with a good chunk of westeros AND faces Essos that it's established to be more advanced than Westeros.
Nathan Hill
Thats because the good brothers live on the largest island, which is the only fertile patch of land in all pf the iron isles
Dominic Scott
I am not sure, I may have conflated them but I think they're run out of gold in the books too, and that posture even more to hide the fact.
Christian White
Pretty sure he also mentions that the fields are bad in this same chapter or another one. Also he was in Great Wyk, the bigger island, an oddity in the Iron Islands.