How would you fix it Veeky Forums??

How would you fix it Veeky Forums??

Let it die.

Put Carthage, a unified Gaul chiefdom and make it all pagan.

Decimate the G*rmanics and establish Roma Eterna over their barbaric ashes.

Romans were like the Germanic (i. e. Nordic) in the past
that's how they could build their civilization
then they racemixed physically with lower races and adopted a foreign Jewish religion
the Germans then invaded the Empire to save it from its own degeneracy
the Germanic kingdom of medieval Europe re-instated Nordic blood in the continent

Pull out of GB and focus on the northeastern border

lolll

>this is what /pol/ actually believes

*notices the lack of arguments*

Did you notice that Will Smith is black. You can't use him for a smug meme if he's a Untermensch.

Romans weren't Germanic and Germanic people didn't invade the Empire to "save it from its own degeneracy"

Don't let the Vandals take Africa. The western Empire might have been more stable than the east before it lost naval control of the Mediterranean and the bulk of Rome's food supply.

it's interesting that the Germanic kingdoms ended up being the progenitors of our modern nation states

I think to ensure that the West survives you'd just need to go back in time and tell Majorian not to trust Ricimer

Don't split the Empire in the first place, an absolutely retarded idea that fatally weakened the West.

That's why some make Greco-Roman civilization distinct from Western Civilization.

...

>Romans were like the Germanic (i. e. Nordic) in the past
Wrong. They were Latins, not Nordic.

>then they racemixed physically with lower races and adopted a foreign Jewish religion
>these were the cause of Fall of WRE

>the Germans then invaded the Empire to save it from its own degeneracy
Many Germnics were Christians themselves

>the Germanic kingdom of medieval Europe re-instated Nordic blood in the continent
>when ppl get conquered their entire gene pool changes

>Romans were like the Germanic (i. e. Nordic) in the past

Literally no. The Gauls you to make fun of Romans for being 6 inches shorter than them and Roman literally thought they were aliens with their blonde features and odd culture. The Celts and Italians languages probably split from common language but racial they weren't Germanic. Nord autism is only slightly less retard than KANGZ.

The split probably kept the empires more stable and gave it more longevity.

Like this

Absolutely disgusting

>that piety

Nope, splitting a realm always weakens both halves, this is attested again and again throughout history.

It would've been better for the East, but critical to the west.

Fucking beautiful user

cry french boi

*vomit*

*cums*

*vomit*

Teaching them how inflation works would be a start

listen to Stilicho

>*vomit*

Why do frenchies fear the Habsburg warrior?

>We wonder that the lands of the Aquitanians and of us all have been given by God to the barbarians. Those same barbarians are now purifying by their chastity the places polluted by the fornication of the Romans.

*vomit*

t. triggered Nazis

emperors have been killed for even suggesting pulling back from conquered territory, what kind of magic could you even create to make it so people can ignore the cowardice you suggest? don't say you'll use facts and persuade through logic because even nowadays with so much information and proof at our fingertips you still have people that believe with all their hearts the earth is flat.

its hard to argue with someone who has a complete lack of understanding of the subject matter. german romans like wtf even.

muh chamberlain muh alfred rosenberg

>emperors have been killed for even suggesting pulling back from conquered territory

Who? I'm curious, I only know of Hadrian pulling out of Armenia and Mesopotamia, both of which were good moves imo.

Severus Alexander

1. Reform the justice system to be trial-by-peer. Eliminate pay-to-win tendencies

2. Land reforms to distribute farm ownership back to plebs in exchange for civic service. Gradually pare down the Latifundia estates and enact laws preventing the solidification of feudalism, instead opting for a society dominated by a powerful middle class of property owners, with the cosmopolitan regions paying taxes to enrich and revitalize rural areas and promote localism, with the rural areas providing food to feed and empower an intellectual class.

3. Introduce federalism to the WRE, making each region semi-autonomous interdependent governing districts whose only capacity for raising men-at-arms was for peace enforcement, and all soldiers raised reported to the central bureaucracy.

4. Issue a decree compelling the Catholic church to educate the masses, foster rational methodologies and inter-faith dialogue rather than astrological superstition and mob violence.

5. Rejuvenate the citizenship model by re-empowering the popular assemblies. Establish a pathway to citizenship for Germanics, enfranchising them so that when they inevitably take over they have a stake in the system and a cultural tradition of being Romans. Make it how it was in the mid-republic: yesterday's conquered foes were today's servants and freedmen, and tomorrow's citizens and legionaries.

6. Enact military reforms so that generals are glorified bureaucrats answerable to a civilian authority, rather than power players in their own right. Be really nice to Stilicho and don't murder him out of jealousy when he brings me military glory. Enact a veteran's program making it so that the state, rather than individuals, manages their after-service quality of life, and that's who they would be loyal too.

7. Standardize the heir-and-a-spare model, transitioning the Roman empire into a constitutional monarchy which shares power with an elected assembly

abandon all settlements north of the Italian alps, and let the barbarians take them. Use them as resources but don't defend them. Put all your power into the Italian peninsula. Consider defending Carthage/North Africa for a naval advantage.

Bulk up the settlements in the north of Italia ie. Mediolanum. Anyone that tries to come into Italy via land will get minced in a meat grinder. The Huns won't stand a chance. Make Flavius Stilicho emperor. Reinstate the old gods.

Either that or completely abandon everything except Britain, conquer all of the British Isles and wait out the storm.

t. Attila player

>t. snow nigger
Even north african were more civilized then nordick cuck

This. Except I would make the rest of the empire independent buffer states, ie. Gaul and Hispania.

Western Rome was doomed after the split between East and West Empire became finalized.

Constantinople eclipsed Rome as the center of trade and administration with its better positioning and proximity to the far richer provinces of Greece, Anatolia, and Egypt. While West Rome's only lucrative provinces were Italy and North Africa, with the comparatively rural Gaul and Britannia taking more money to defend the borders than the Western Empire could generate.

Corruption also plagued the West much more than the Eastern counterpart, once the elites knew that the empire was going to fail, it was an all out scramble to take any money and material that was left rather than commit it to bolstering the military or defending the border, where the Western Roman army was nothing more than mercenary bands more loyal to Gold rather than the state.

The only long-term way to ensure its survival is a reunification with the Eastern Empire, and plug the East's much more impressive treasury into defending the west, but this would make the entire Empire crumble together more slowly rather than the west's quick fall and the survival of the East for another 1000 years. An empire that remained united would die a slow death between Germanic invasions from the West and eventual Arab invasions from the east, both would've collapsed the empire, east and west, entirely by the 800's at best.

>Emperor isn't turkish
2/10

>reinstated the policy of assimilating tribes in exchange for manpower
>clear out the generals and politicians, just a straight up fucking purge
>use assimilated tribal leaders to take their place

Now you have loyalty

>explain carefully that our military is fat and lazy
>tell troops that I'll cut pay to a certain degree (from unsustainable to sustainable) for every lose or dishonor
>donatives for victory, spoils of war go directly to the troops

Now you have a military

>bureaucracy time
>appoint loyal and competent governors, separate from military leaders
>hand them power
>politely inform the mints to fucking stop
>institute inflation control
>abolish private tax collection

Now you have an empire

When are anons like this gonna stop posting? Seriously, it doesn't contribute to the dialogue

Just report such posts, dummy. Racism outside /b/ and /pol/ is banworthy but the mods can't do their job if they don't know about it.

Majorian did all of this and got assassinated for his trouble

In a world where most of the economy is agriculture, giving up land means giving up resources as well. At best a retreating to a stronghold would give you a temporary advantage in nonperishable resources like iron which wouldn't make much difference.

That happens 50 years after the date on the map

Majorian was 100 years late

I think it's the Anglo being on that map more than anything.

By resurrecting it and banning Protestantism and Islam.

I remember trying to play RTW:BI at VH/VH as WRE. Just couldn't fucking do it.

>roleplaying
fucking kill yourself

Map is almost perfect. Just get rid of the hre blob

>Gradually pare down the Latifundia estates and enact laws preventing the solidification of feudalism, instead opting for a society dominated by a powerful middle class of property owners, with the cosmopolitan regions paying taxes to enrich and revitalize rural areas and promote localism, with the rural areas providing food to feed and empower an intellectual class.

one of the biggest problems of the late western empire was an absolutely fucked tax system where the collectors had to resort to violence and extortion because the rates were so high.

the first order of the day for any of the things you prescribed is

>convince ambitious retards to stop trying to kill anyone remotely good at their job by cracking down on corruption and making a rock-solid fall back system for power
>crack down on corruption and inefficiency and pull off a miracle by discovering 18th century economic theory and start a central bank to control inflation
>make SURE people don't go full retard with christianity and end up forgetting useful snippets of knowledge like how to clean their hands after shitting

Romans are Italics. The Latins were just one of the Italic language branches/ethno-linguistic groups. Italics are more closely related to Celtics and vice-versa then either was to the Germanics in any case.

Abandon Africa,Numidia, Illyria, Pannonia

Turn the Roman Empire into a Confedaracy and divide it into Britannia(capital : Letocetum), Gallia(capital : Burgidala), Hispania(capital : Toletum), Italia(capital : Roma)

Rename Burdigala, Letocetum, Toletum into Nova Roma

Turn the Empire into a loose confederacy with the duty to assist each other in case of war

Alllow each regions its to have its own army recruited among the freemen

Decrete that all freemen must fight in case of war

Kill all non-Roman males and enslave all non-Roman females in the Roman Confederacy

>dude remember all those times we divided the empire up and it ended in disaster?
>yeah man, those were bad times
>lets do it again but this time we'll divide it even more :D:D:D
>While we're at it lets abandon the provinces that feed Italy :)

>Hey man I'm back. Just had a great idea
>Shoot
>We kill all the Germanics
>Aren't those the guys we hire to fight for us? The only ones really fighting to defend us?
>Yeah but the other Germanics are attacking us so they might switch sides ya know?
>Okay lets do it, what could go wrong, we'll also kill Stilicho that kraut bastard

They actually tried this and most of them fled and joined the enemy armies, it destroyed the Roman army and made the Gothic ones larger.

>>While we're at it lets abandon the provinces that feed Italy :)
The goal is to save the Roman Empire not to save plebian lives

>Aren't those the guys we hire to fight for us? The only ones really fighting to defend us?
Which is why i said that all freemen from then are obligated to fight or else they will be put to death or enslaved.

Too much reliance on foreigners caused the fall of the Empire.

The Romans would eat you alive.
>Forced conscription and mass starvation
>Handing over entire regions to people you will just have to trust not to turn on you

Even assuming you got people to agree to these ideas how are you going to feed, equip and train your new army? What will you do for defence during the period between killing your current armies and raising your new ones?

>Too much reliance on foreigners
The Emperor that actually agreed with this was literally the last Western Roman Emperor. He decided to murder his half Germanic general Stilicho and attempted to remove the foreign soldiers and people that served him. Then the Goths were able to waltz in to Italy and sack Rome because there was no army.

>Handing over entire regions to people you will just have to trust not to turn on you
Roman Identity can survive without an unified state

>Even assuming you got people to agree to these ideas how are you going to feed, equip and train your new army? What will you do for defence during the period between killing your current armies and raising your new ones?
Slaves can produce what i need, and what i cannot obtain i can seek it either among the members of the Confederacy or among the Greeks.

>The Emperor that actually agreed with this was literally the last Western Roman Emperor

He was a wise man, merely the Germanic tentacles were too deep rooted, his predecessors are to blame for their short-sightedness

>Reinstate the old gods
>Try taking away my DnD set now mom!!!

Hadrian almost got eaten alive for moving back from previous conquest, you're a fucking retard.

Majority of Majorian's army wasn't Germanic though, Italics/Latin Romans still made up the overwhelming numbers of the Roman army even late into the 5th century.

>abandon all settlements north of the Italian alps

This is what the Romans did

And look who survived at last

You sound like a dumber Julian.

>Italics/Latin Romans still made up the overwhelming numbers of the Roman army

t. thumb mutilator

Ammianus Marcellinus, Roman History

>1.Nearly all the Gauls are of a lofty stature, fair, and of ruddy complexion; terrible from the sternness of their eyes, very quarrelsome, and of great pride and insolence. A whole troop of foreigners would not be able to withstand a single Gaul if he called his wife to his assistance, who is usually very strong, and with blue eyes; especially when, swelling her neck, gnashing her teeth, and brandishing her sallow arms of enormous size, she begins to strike blows mingled with kicks, as if they were so many missiles sent from the string of a catapult.
>2.The voices of the generality are formidable and threatening, whether they are in good humour or angry: they are all exceedingly careful of cleanliness and neatness, nor in all the country, and most especially in Aquitania, could any man or woman, however poor, be seen either dirty or ragged.
>3.The men of every age are equally inclined to war, and the old man and the man in the prime of life answer with equal zeal the call to arms, their bodies being |81 hardened by their cold weather and by constant exercise, so that they are all inclined to despise dangers and terrors. NOR HAS ANY ONE OF THIS NATION EVER MUTILATED HIS THUMB FROM FEAR OF THE TOILS OF WAR, AS MEN HAVE DONE IN ITALY, WHOM IN THEIR DISTRICT ARE CALLEDE MURCI.


FROM FEAR OF THE TOILS OF WAR, AS MEN HAVE DONE IN ITALY

>Gauls
>Germanic

t. gibbons cock-sniffer

Kill this dumb cunt. There. Rome is saved.

How are you going to keep those slaves in check considering you just turned the entire army against you?

You basically sound like Honorius 2.0. He was also fucking retarded.

Honorius was based and Rome's pavements shall be purified with the blood of Germanic barbarians.

>Imediately remove all troops from Britain.
>Court the Gotho Roman armies of the east with promises of land in northern France.
>Take a subordinate role to eastern Empire in exchange for strong naval support
>Train children vigorously and kill those hopefully discreetly that are not up to snuff
>attemtpt to make the imperial household seem holy to the peasents

Elevate a city close to Germania, Gaul, and Britania as an Imperial capital like Rome. Offer tax liens to the people living there and make it a substitute for Rome for the landed aristocracy in southern gaul to flex their political capital. With a large city in gaul, legios could be placed there that could be kept loyal to provide for broader border defence and policing the province so it quits fracturing away. Trier already sorta worked in this manner, but needed more investment to legitimize it.

Also harass the celts that were still left in Britannia with border armies. Take slaves and send them south to Britannia inferior to work the docks as galley slaves or the villas of the landed aristocracy that grew grapes in the east. At worst, send them to the mines so they dont last long. Use border raids to break the spirit of the celts until they accept suzerainty. If they never do, send an army to murder every single person north of the wall and west of the wall.

EITHER in 409 when offering the usurper Constantine III recognition, stipulate that in return his rule should be from Trier and not Arles. Offer in return that his son, Constans II will inherit the throne at Milan/Ravenna when the time comes.

OR, better yet,

Send the newly elevated Constantius III in 421 to govern at Trier - this plan requires that Constantius III doesn't fucking die at the height of his political success.

Or, make AĆ«tius an Augustus, based at Trier. Revitalising Trier was vital - most of the usurpations launched from Britain/Gaul in the late 4th/early 5th century can be linked to the removal of an imperial presence on the Rhine frontier.

>>one of the biggest problems of the late western empire was an absolutely fucked tax system
True, but the problem was that those taxes were going to pay for an insanely bloated military budget and for an opulent court. Furthermore, the reason why taxes needed to be so high was because the traditional tax-base, the land-owning middle class, had all but completely disappeared by the late empire, forcing the state to rely on taxing aristocrats (who violently resisted or weaseled their way out of paying) or on the backs of the working poor. A larger middle-class means a larger tax base, which means that I can cut taxes to stimulate growth as needed
>>making a rock-solid fall back system for power
That would be why legal reforms would be the first order of business, followed by citizenship reform and federalism to make it like it was in the mid-republic, where men of ambition still had a ladder to climb within the system, and an electoral system to capitalize peacefully on their ambition.
>>pull off a miracle by discovering 18th century economic theory and start a central bank to control inflation
The economic reforms of Constantine more or less stabilized the currency and economy in the East for 1,000 years. But yes, one of the goals would be creating a Roman University of Salamaca, the medieval center of learning where priests first codified economics as its own distinct discipline.
>>make SURE people don't go full retard with christianity
I would take a page from Charlemagne: issue a decree compelling the church to provide education for the masses, particularly education which stresses rational methodologies and practical know-how. The goal would be licensing reform, ripping power away from the pagan temples and issuing them from secular government buildings, where anyone who gets their engineers or doctor's license can go anywhere in the empire and practice their trade.

>you're a fucking retard
why?
>cuz Hadrian almost got eaten alive for moving back from previous conquest

fuck you, this is a legit way to win in attila tw

>honorius was a wise man

>Introduce federalism to the WRE, making each region semi-autonomous interdependent governing districts

no

o gods another we wuz romanz nordicuck

WE WUZ VIKANGZ N SHIET

Probably bait, either way kill yourself.

This might be retarded because I'm not an expert on the late Roman military etc but this is what I've come up with.

Seeing how most of your problems are endless raids from snow niggers and the cost of maintaining an army wouldn't the perfect solution be to institute a fyrd system like one the Anglo-Saxons had?

It ensures local areas can defend themselves with the assistance of a smaller professional army. It also removes the likelihood of commanders leading their professional armies in revolt because the fyrd wouldn't be interested in marching to Ravenna. For larger threats just raise the fyrd from a larger area in the way Anglo-Saxon England did to fight larger invasion forces from the Danes and Normans.

If you combine a Roman fyrd with thousands of Anglo-Saxon burhs like the ones Alfred the great is popular for using you could fortify the West, reduce the army cost and size and decrease the chances of revolting generals.

Would it work?

Honorious wasn't the last western emperor

If Nepos was defacto Emperor in 480 when he died then Romulus was defacto Emperor in the 500s where he was last recorded as alive. This means he was the last Western Roman Emperor. Nepos can claim to be whatever he wants, it doesn't make it true.

Except Romulus was disposed. Again western rome fell in 476 not 410

Wasn't he killed for bribing Germanic tribes to stop attacking Rome rather than just killing them?

Kek

Nepos was de jure emperor in 476. By the 500s, Romulus was neither de jure nor de facto an emperor.

Sort your shit out lad.

In *480.

Hypocrisy I know.

>That would be why legal reforms would be the first order of business, followed by citizenship reform and federalism to make it like it was in the mid-republic, where men of ambition still had a ladder to climb within the system, and an electoral system to capitalize peacefully on their ambition.

the problem is that this is the stage of the Roman history in which the belief that people ought to govern themselves and elect leaders wasn't just on it's way out, it was actively being erradicated in favor of divinely appointed leaders. You need to create a whole system of officials who are both powerful enough for these chucklefucks to bother and not enough to get rebellious right off the bat.

furthermore, federalism in an empire that was already splitting at the seams would be a death sentence. Provinces had plenty of independence before and caracalla fucked it up, to fix it would be a huge endeavor, you'd need to implant not only a sense of self-governing and local identity but also loyalty to the federation itself, the emperor, and make them not hate the guts out of the Italians themselves.

using the administrative units in place i would just group provinces in larger units of 4-5(more or less the size and shame of the countries today) which would be ran by an appointed imperial guy, who will rule over the provincial governors which will be two consuls, one elected by the people there and one elected by the senate from their own, and the senate itself would change their requirement to require a military rank, so that generals would become senators and not grit their teeth against them.

If Nepos can claim to be dejure Emperor in 480 Romulus was also dejure Emperor in the 500s. One owned a villa the other a tiny half burned province that had been visited by a dozen different hostile people.

Nepos can't be defacto Emperor in 480 because by that point the position was more symbolic and he had zero control over Italy. It would be closer to say Odoacer was defacto Emperor than Nepos.

The border guards system was exactly that. Thing is, the West was slow to implement it along with fortifications to support it. Like, decades slower than the east. The Easts success in implementation of the new model defence is why they held out for so long.