Religion in China

Historically, how did religion work in China? What was the relationship between Buddhism, worship of native Chinese deities, Taoism, Confucian thought, and the emperor? Let's say during the Qing period just as an example.

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestorian_Stele
youtube.com/user/fabian215963
mmg.mpg.de/departments/religious-diversity/scientific-staff/dr-fabian-graham/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Rites_controversy
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I feel (uneducated as fuck opinion) that religion during the Qing was mostly defined by the importation of Christianity, and the subsequent backlash leading to the Taiping revolt. Maybe Qing isn't the best example as a model for Chinese historical dynamics of religion's relation to the state. One thing I do recall though is that Buddhism used to be persecuted as a foreign religion just like Christianity is today

Depended on if a religion was the one favored by the court. Daoism, Buddhism, Confucianism, and Christianity (during Matteo Ricci and then the subsequent backlash) would lead to an heavy investment in the religion within China. For example Wu Zetian spent quite mightly on great works of Buddhism within China. Buddhism and Christanity where also a special case, in that they spread based upon conflict since they were a unitarian religion. If the people and therefore the state were having a hard time the surge of Buddhism and later Christianity were an expected byproduct.

China wasn't religious per say. It was more spiritualist? There was no formal religion or religion head, but there were competing ideologies with political implications. Taoism, Buddhism, and Confucian all waxed and waned, sometimes quite violently purged. I would say the most enduring part of Chinese religion was ancestor veneration and belief (like Shinto and most pagans) in a variety of supernatural entities comprising heaven, rather than one pantheon of gods. These types of belief structures are very fluid, because it's easy to acknowledge more or other gods, and there's no need to impose the belief structure on localized regions, they just worship more minor supernatural entities in the endless sea of them.

To my knowledge Taoism fell off from official court religion by the Tang and never really recovered. Buddhism was extensively used as tax evasion and got violently purged at one point and didn't really recover. Christianity would be a big big deal when it started spreading, culminating in the Taiping Rebellion during the Qing. It also didn't recover after they had thoroughly stabbed most of its adherents. Confucianism therefore won the test of time until Mao's cultural revolution attempted to purge ancestor veneration and it's archaic social structures.

they were taoist and buddhist which is just another version of christianity and catholicicm and judaism

Shitloads of syncretism and the Chinese state obsessing over peace & order by monitoring religions a lot.

The great thing about Folk Chinese Religion is it is a dogmaless, clergiless, mess where people from different religions can insert their lore. Like what the Buddhists did and what the Christians are doing (pic related).

Generally the Chinese state is officially worshippers of Folk Chinese Religion. The Emperor himself is the chief Sacrificer overseeing the important rites (such as the annual Spring Sacrifice or some shit). In addition the Emperor and the Government worshipped their ancestors and gods of the Heaven-worship Pantheon. However this did not stop Emperors from having other religions: there have been a few Buddhist emperor's in Chinese history and some Empresses were even Christian. Again, Folk Chinese religion is heavily syncretic.

The state generally did not mind other religions so long as they didn't breach the peace. A good example of this was the fact that Christians in China preached quite freely up until in the 1700s when an autistic shitfight between the Jesuits and other Catholic Orders over Chinese Christian Rites led to the pope sending a stupid letter *ordering* the Emperor of China around, and the Chinese state became insulted by foreign intrusion and worried over the doctrinal infighting that they ordered all the missionaries out.

Don't forget that at one point in the Tang dynasty Christianity was sweeping the empire; one emperor may have straight up converted but he was at the very least very disposed towards it. He called it "The illustrious religion."

When was this? Oh, the 600s
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestorian_Stele

Everything is under the emperor, the religion will rise when the emperor like it, gone to shit when his son hate it and burn down the temples when he's the new king, there's no such thing as "Pope and kings", it's a European joke and the reason why Europe never united

>Chinese Christian Rites led to the pope sending a stupid letter *ordering* the Emperor of China around
God it still make me laugh
>The Europeans are very quiet; they do not excite any disturbances in the provinces, they do no harm to anyone, they commit no crimes, and their doctrine has nothing in common with that of the false sects in the empire, nor has it any tendency to excite sedition ... We decide therefore that all temples dedicated to the Lord of heaven, in whatever place they may be found, ought to be preserved, and that it may be permitted to all who wish to worship this God to enter these temples, offer him incense, and perform the ceremonies practised according to ancient custom by the Christians. Therefore let no one henceforth offer them any opposition.
>pope send letter
>Reading this proclamation, I have concluded that the Westerners are petty indeed. It is impossible to reason with them because they do not understand larger issues as we understand them in China. There is not a single Westerner versed in Chinese works, and their remarks are often incredible and ridiculous. To judge from this proclamation, their religion is no different from other small, bigoted sects of Buddhism or Taoism. I have never seen a document which contains so much nonsense. From now on, Westerners should not be allowed to preach in China, to avoid further trouble.

Its even funny if you actually read what the Pope sent the Chinese Emperor.

>Chinese Emperor: Wow, these guys are chill and cause no trouble. Let them be.
>Pope: LET ME TELL YOU HOW TO RULE YOUR CHRISTIAN SUBJECTS
>Emperor: Wtf I hate Westerners now.

Don't really know about Chinese religion but I know people in Northeastern China worship fox spirits because of Manchu influence.

Nestorian in China was becoming more Buddhist like. It was eventually deposed as a result during anti-Buddhist phases.

All you need to know is that Buddhism was a toxic influence in China just like Abrahamism was a toxic influence in the west.

During the Han everything declined into a degenerate mess of daoism, buddhism, and (thankfully) ancestor worship. Kind of like how the west suffered from all sorts of perversions during the later classical period, from neoplatonism to christianity.

It's one of the most tragic things to happen to humanity, and the reason why everything east of Ionia and west of Shaanxi (or possibly west of HanGuGuan to be safe) should be nuked into dust and never resettled.

Fox spirits have been recognized in China for donkeys years. Hu Li Jing are pre-unification fox spirits,

>manchu influence
>fox spirit been recorded since the warring states.
I guess this is why people say Japan has a unique culture

This, Buddhism was and will aoways be cancer

Pope to the bishops of china: it's not with church teaching to worship ancestors, but parts of Confucian Chinese traditions that are ok should be kept.

Kang-zhi:wow you goys are so bigoted

youtube.com/user/fabian215963
mmg.mpg.de/departments/religious-diversity/scientific-staff/dr-fabian-graham/

Folk religion is what religion is in old China. It's an unorganized mess of people making shit up.

>I guess this is why people say Japan has a unique culture
Because it does?

I guess if you count kawaii and hikikomori shit, sure.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Rites_controversy

Let us hope that China updates their mental health regulations so that people who place faith above truth may be detained and treated.

So long as people acknowledge the possibility that their faith is misplaced, there's no immediate need to detain and restore to competency. Christians will be foolish and say their faith is unquestionable, though, therefore they may be subject to this regulation.

> it's not with church teaching to worship ancestors, but parts of Confucian Chinese traditions that are ok
Guess what Confucian Chinese traditions are about.

Also Kangxi had a point: they do not understand how it is in China. There are loads of Chinese Christians and Muslims - even to this day- that worship and venerate their ancestors. To them they don't see how this violates God in any way since its quite personal and in addition they assume their family is up in heaven anyway.

>Kangxi had a point
*the Kangxi Emperor had a point
Referring to the Kangxi Emperor as "Kangxi" is like calling Chairman Mao "GreatLeapForward" or calling President Lincoln "CivilWar".

People don't realize that Christianity was in China during the 600s ad. It spread during the tang dynasty

Ah yes the great Soviet leader TheGreatPurge.

Well, yeah.

They had the single best naming scheme for these religions, though. Same religion/god, but 3 types: one cut their dicks/wear blue caps, one avoid non-cloven hooves and one dislike pork.

Interesting