Tfw the Finnic people never secured their natural borders and maintained their traditional religion

it's Ancient Russia
Finns lived in mudhuts

>extending into Sápmi

Finns and Estonians are essentially Nordic Corded Ware people assimilated into Finns by the partially mongoloid Finno-Ugric tribes, hence the more east you go, the more Mongoloid the "Finnics" become.

This is very true. In the western country and in the coastal regions you can't really tell them apart from Scandinavians, but when you start going east and inland, the typical "Finnish" features start appearing.
iirc this was quite evident in a recent genetic survey too.

The Northern Crusades didn't destroy paganism in Estonia, though.
The Moravian Church did, in the 18th century.
Paganism also stayed for a really long time in Finland.
The Veps, Votes, Izhorians, Setos, Karelians, and Ludes were all conquered by Novgorod, so they are Orthodox.
The Setos actually have Jesus as a god. Mary (his mother as we know her) is his wife and a also a god.

This is true for Finno-Ugric peoples in general. The Northern Crusades only affected Finns, Estonians, and Livonians. (and our Pagan Baltic neighbours)

>Nordic Corded Ware
Do you count slavs and balts as nordic people as well?

japan is incredibly fertile and ripped off everything from china

finland is a frozen shithole and the entire pre-christianization culture consisted of taking shrooms and banging drums in the forest

>Ancient Russia

Slavs aren't native to any part of Russia. Do you mean Belarus?

That's not really true. In terms of genetic distances SW Finns are 3 times more distant from Swedes than the French are.

All of Finland is predominantly Finnish(Uralic on Corded Ware but not strictly Nordic Corded Ware) although the coast is more mixed.

Most of the Slavic homeland is in western Ukraine, not Belarus.

Opinios always differ. Poles say it's in Western Poland.

The intersection of Poland, Ukraine and Belarus is the safest bet.

ALL northern Eurasian tribes have been decimated culturally. Finno-Urgics were Russified, Turks where Islamized, Mongols were Sinicized, Tungistics were Sinicized, Yeniseians are basically extinct.

Korean Shamanism, Japanese Shinto, and surviving Tengriist communities are the last North Asian shamanistic traditions with any life. You might be able to include SOME of the Chinese folk religions--the ones based on "spirits" or "gods" seem to have a common source with Asian shamanism.

All Europeans also were culturally decimated.

Finnish Mongoloid admixture is derived entirely from Sami people and it's found throughout all of Finland (4% in the West, 5% in the East, 8% in the North). The original Finnics were fully Baltic genetically, the Corded Ware admixture found in Finns has nothing to do with Scandinavians.

>Western Poland

That the most retarded thing I've heard.

>Finnish Mongoloid admixture is derived entirely from Sami people

Possible, Finnish Y-chromosomes haplogroups have almost fully Saami or Finno-Saamic origins and start diversifying much earlier than the language shift to Baltic-Finnic occurred, as early as 1000 BC but mostly after 200 BC.

>The original Finnics were fully Baltic genetically

We need ancient DNA. I don't believe it myself because this requires almost infinite access to Indo-European women to drive down the Mongoloid admixture which would equal infinite power. I think they had some access but not infinite.

>Finnish Mongoloid admixture is derived entirely from Sami people

Nope, Estonians have it too and there were no Saamis inhabiting Estonia.

True, they've been Judaized

Saami were matriarchal and therefore have Finnic Y-DNA, they also have Mesolithic auDNA which suggests that at first they truly were indigenous to the area prior to mixing with West Siberians (the source of their Mongoloid DNA) and later with Finnics (the source of their paternal lines).
>We need ancient DNA
True, but Uralics have been mixing with Indo-Europeans ever since Proto-Indo-Aryan times, it wouldn't be too far-fetched to think that by the time they reached the Baltics they were fully Indo-European in terms of auDNA.

These "West Siberians" were the proto-Finno-Saamic speakers for the most part.

Wrong, they were N1b like the Samoyeds (still found in trace amounts in some areas of Finland). The Levänluhta skeletons were fully Mongoloid and predated Finnic expansion, those were the forefathers of Saami.

>N1b

No actual proof of that. Might as well speculate about Q. Besides, N1b is more of a steppe raider thing in Europe anyway. Belarus has more than Finland and of the same branch of course. It would make more sense if Veps got it from mixed race steppe raiders and Finns got it from Veps.

>The Levänluhta skeletons were fully Mongoloid

Not really, not even close to full. More like a quarter.

>proto-Finno-Saamic
This never was a thing, there is only Finnic substrata in Saami.

Yes it was a thing. West Uralic minus Permic.

Mordvins are linguistically descended from the same bunch but their biology is local Indo-European and Turco-Mongol. They only have 15% N1c.

Was N1c of East Eurasian origin?

N M178 Y23747 and 723749 can be found in modern day Japanese/Chinese.

>Might as well speculate about Q. Besides, N1b is more of a steppe raider thing in Europe anyway
Except that it is indigenous to West Siberia.
>Not really, not even close to full. More like a quarter
Heavily Mongoloid nonetheless, they were the genetic forefathers of the Saami who the fully Baltic Proto-Finns drove off.
>
Mordvins are linguistically descended from the same bunch but their biology is local Indo-European and Turco-Mongol.
That's because Mordovians are assimilated Scythians.

Who gives a fuck where a haplogroup originated.

It's entirely irrelevant when you're going back 30,000+ years.

>The Northern Crusades were the most tragic event in human history

Q obviously is too, moreso than N1c even. It was present in the Baltic mesolithic and Khvalynsk culture and obviously got to those places from West Siberia.
If there was a Siberian Mongoloid migration to Europe unrelated to Uralic speakers we can assume it's linked to Q.

Obviously. I think N1c was rare to non-existent in Europe prior to the Seima-Turbino mass migration which moved multiple lineages to Europe simultaneously, creating illusionary depth. Yakuts and Chukchi retain some lines which didn't take part in the mass migration but none the less are extremely closely related to European N1c.

>It's entirely irrelevant when you're going back 30,000+ years.
That's not even close to the TRMCA of N1c.

Is Finnish N1c the result of a founder effect by Siberian males or were those populations mixed to begin with?

>the finnic peoples
>A united polity
The only reason I in any way endorse any kind of Finnic is because I want to see a Russia without access to the Baltic.

t. Swede

>This Seima meme again

You parrot it here all the time, but there's no genetic evidence to state it as a fact like you're doing.

Sure Uralic languages were spread by a phantom culture no archaeologist has ever found any trace of. That makes more sense.

Sure N1c was no existent in Europe prior Seima phenomenon which started 2000BC but somehow N1c was found in 2500BC in Seretya very close to Belarus.

You seem to be very fixated on such idiotic ideas that N1c was only spread by those early Finnic/Uralic speakers, just like some idiots are fixated that all R1b/R1a is spread by Indo-Europeans.

My mistake Seima phenomenon is even later from 1500BC if we're going by wiki.

Those Serteya results haven't been verified yet.

Seima-Turbino is dated contemporary to Sintashta, not 1500 BC.

>Those Serteya results haven't been verified yet.
>I don't like therefore it's wrong

academia.edu/9452168/Archaeology_of_lake_settlements_IV-II_mill._BC_Mazurkevich_A._Polkovnikova_M._Dolbunova_E._ed

Page 294.

>Seima-Turbino is dated contemporary to Sintashta, not 1500 BC.

According to who?

It isn't Sintashta is from 2100BC, Seima goes back to 1900BC by furthest estimates.

1900 BC works fine for N1c but these age estimates are estimates only

They used outdated PCR sequencing on the Serteya samples and the age estimates could be off too. They are very unlikely to be particularly meaningful, especially for Uralic N1c.

But if we want to play devils advocate, the VL29 line carried mainly by Balts and Mari people has the stronger link to Siberia, Chukchi people specifically(Y16323 on the tree )

It could be that only VL29 is Seima-Turbino while the Z1936 line was established in Europe slightly prior.

I think both are Seima-Turbino though because a folk movement can also move depth from Siberia to Europe and the history of southwestern Siberia isn't a peaceful one so you wouldn't except continuity there anyway.

>could be
Nigga you say shit stating like it's a fact without any data at all, while on the other hand dismiss any data that we have saying it's shit. Get a grip.

>any data we have

Other than the sketchy Serteya, we don't have any ancient N1c outside multiple individuals from neolithic East Asia and elite Xiongnu burials. I would change my mind instantly if there was actual evidence but there simply isn't.

Seima-Turbino is the working hypothesis right now with no alternative explanations.

>fucking mammoths

ayyyy

>taking shrooms and banging drums in the forest
What more do you want out of this life?