Are the transaction costs for bitcoin ever going down to reasonable levels?

Wrong.

>The future of the bitcoin network might look like this: you acquire some of the currency, plunk it down into a payment channel, and then whenever you need to pay someone else in the lightning network you just type the numbers, select a destination, and poof! Your funds are off.

>Wrong. What you're actually doing in the lightning network is trading IOUs: promises to pay certain amounts to another party eventually. This works in theory because the funds between all parties are locked up for a set amount of time, only when the channel closes do amounts actually get sent. So in order to participate at all to begin with, you have to take your coins and create one on-chain transaction to lock them into a channel.

>The channels could work one-way, where you're paying someone who has never owned bitcoin before, or two ways, where two people lock up their own funds to form a channel between them, or (more likely) you'll open a channel with a centralized processor which has a massive number of connections to other parties and can reliably send party to party with the least number of intermediaries. You still control the keys of course, but there is a strong incentive to connect to a channel that can bring you the most benefit.

>But consider what can happen to bitcoin in the years to come. Suppose the price rises astronomically, suppose adoption happens on a global scale. Even with bitcoin acting as a settlement layer and lightning working as an upper transaction layer, miner fees could be extraordinarily high. Block space is limited, transaction spam is always possible. Each channel creation and closure event requires at minimum, 3 on chain transactions to fully execute, even if an infinite number of payments can be sent inside the channel once it's set up. Channels also need to periodically close to enforce the settlement, which necessitates more on-chain transactions.

>If miner fees increase to cost prohibitive levels, such as $10, $20, $50, or $100 USD per transaction, then lightning networks still become unusable. There would be an enormous pressure to keep funds tied up in payment channels at all times so they could be freely transmitted without fees, but just the act of setting up a channel could thwart the payment. Imagine telling someone you can pay them in bitcoin, but first it will cost them $10 to set up a payment channel to accept it, and oh, another $10 to eventually close that payment channel.

>Another problem with channels is that by design, they must close periodically. The nlock time gives either party the ability to escape a bad payment channel agreement by signing a transaction to withdraw their original funds, but that could carry a heavy penalty of a miner fee, (ouch, $10 for no deal). Payment channels also need to close to actually settle the movement of funds, so opening one will commit you to eventually paying the miner fee on the other end, imagine being forced to pay $10 every month, or week, just to periodically re-open your payment channels and be able to spend funds where you want. It's worse than a checking account.

>Other problems appear with closer inspection:

>1) If the value of your bitcoin payment changes significantly before the channel is closed, either party could be screwed and face significant penalities

>2) If someone is a dick, and doesn't want to accept a payment (say, because it's value has changed significantly) they don't have to accept it. They can simply wait and force the other participants to have their funds tied up until the payment channel closes. This could be an unreasonable amount of time.

>3) It's cost-prohibitive for a single party (you) to set up multiple payment channels, because each channel requires it's own set of transactions that need miner fees to be paid during the creation and closure. What's more likely is that you'll use one giant payment channel connection to another party like a routing service, and rely on them to get your payment sent through the network efficiently. Except, keep in mind they don't do it for free. Every middleman wants to be paid, and every participant is paying two to three sets of miner fees to maintain those payment channels periodically. The cost of high transaction fees will trickle into the system anyway, and the only defense against them is to process enough payments so that the overall fee per payment is low enough. This encourages payment processor centralization, and who's better at that than the existing financial industry?

>The bleak future of the lightning network is that while you do in theory control the keys, it will require you to open a channel with the best available Bank of America or Chase clone to tie up as much of your money as you want to spend. You could be paying higher miner fees to do so anyway, so unless you know ahead of time that you're making frequent payments, it might not be worth it. The banks will promise 3-4 degrees of separation with every other merchant in the world so that you can easily send your bitcoin to another party, but you better hope that the party accepts your payment because if not, your funds could be tied up until you want to wait it out or payout another two sets of miner fee to close and re-open the channel again.

Wow is she a real ninja?

Do you even need to ask?

I'd throw my kunai at her if you know what I mean.

>her
lol

I'd make the shuriken with her, if you know what I mean.

Her character is Irish, so no.

I'd read her Ninja Scroll, if you know what I mean.

I'd kage her bunshin, if you know what I mean.

so XRP then.

Never. The only way is up. That is why BTC is doomed to fail within a few years. BTC is just a prototype.

If anyone of you fag boys are getting transactions through under a dollar and your not waiting days for your transaction to confirm then your fucking lying avg fee is 8.90. Then if you don't like that pay the subscription fee lmfao fuck that that isn't bitcoin thats blockstream fucking your ass

>have to pay my bank $10 to wire money overseas
>takes half a day sometimes longer
>only costs $3 with bitcoin
>takes less than an hour
Its not unreasonable really.

It is when ethereum exists

by that notion dogecoin is far superior to le ethereum

>comparing dogecoin to ethereum
Your retard is showing

>le 200iq 4chunner.jgp

I only clicked on this thread to enlarge your image.

Xrp will probably do alright but the future is iota.

my BTC transactions are going through in under 20 minutes with $2 fees, idk what everyone is bitching about

Never. Bitmain shills still don't understand how LN works (or maybe they do and are only pretending to be retarded).

bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees.html

itll only get worse. blockchain likes big transaction fees and /r/bitcoin operates your mind to like it too. like the jew Veeky Forums. like it while it fucks you.

How much are you moving?

XRP is not even a real crypto currency. It's a transaction system for banks.

>I only clicked on this thread to enlarge my penis
fixed for ya

You should browse /r/bitcoin once in awhile. They are like hardcore defending fees like a cult.

People hate hearing this but back in 2011 we all did transactions for free and they went through quickly.

I still dont know what side Im on. It feels like for small transactions under $10 or whatnot, itll always be easier to do it with another cryptocurrency.

I get the argument for both sides. We have to have fees or we get too much spam transactions which lead to an ever growing blockchain. Wouldnt want to have all transactions saved on the blockchain.

the mem pool is fairly clear right now
prolly quite cheap a few would get the job done.
y u cry like babys who dont know how to learn how to use the shit you play with?
y r fags so fucking dumb u cant figure out how to figure out the game?

Teach me.

get to know your mempool
tradeblock.com/bitcoin
jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/uahf/#8h

You're all retards falling for FUD and you don't know shit. Transactions with 20 cent fees go through at the moment.

personally dislike XRP's centralized setup. sold my XRP for IOTA some time ago. coins don't serve the same purpose, but IOTAs target market makes sense to me. not much is happening with the coin though atm.. i'm in it for the long term but lack of proper wallet, exchanges or announcements make it hard to see how they'll win the this higly competative crypto space. plenty of coins that want to jump into that same space

>comparing ETH to BTC

Likewise, retard

how long does it take though to recieve it, a week?

What do you call reasonable? Just had a look at the latest transactions and picked one at random. $938 transaction. $0.51 fee. That seems entirely reasonable to me, you shill.

And btw... This transaction has already started confirming less than 10 minutes later. BTC is fine and it'll get even better with SegWit. Let your bcash shitcoin die, idiots.

sorry to be the one to tell you but you're misinformed. The lightning network with segwit was created as a secondary layer for which cryptobanks can be placed as an intermediary between two people transacting.

There is a reason why core is so violently against big blocks, the reason being that the cost of private individuals to transact on the blockchain will be hundreds or thousands of dollars if the blocksize is not increased.

This money goes to miners but you obviously won't be able to buy a dildo at an affordable price because of the ridiculous transaction fees.

Instead you'll now be forced onto the second layer, which is your cryptokike bankers control, who then issue you a line of credit which you will use to buy your dildo, although you being the retarded cuck you are, will actually believe you're using your own bitcoin.

The blockchain itself will not only transact huge single transactions between other cryptobanks in other countries.

Really not hard to figure out, except you fucking dumb faggots keep believing blockstream and other affiliated private companies are on your side.

This is why bitcoin cash didn't drop to $1 when it was forked, it is the real bitcoin. And I now own a lot of it. Thanks.

*The blockchain itself will now only transact huge single transactions

so you make bigger blocks and lightning network
real world transactions are never going to tolerate 10-60 minute waits based on how many confirmations they want to see, especially if crypto becomes widely adopted, will never be tolerated
core and miners are both stifling adoption for their own short sighted reasons and they'll probably kill bitcoin altogether with their political bullshit while something else takes its place