China and Japan

Well wait a minute, there ARE some Korean and Vietnamese cultural exports.

Kimchi is basically Korean sauerkraut, and is fairly popular in the US now. Sriracha sauce is from Vietnam and that's so popular now that Lays makes a Sriracha-flavored potato chip.

Mr. Nguyen in Hey Arnold was Vietnamese.

I never said that Korean or Vietnamese cultural exports were non-existent, only that their volume and popularity was quite behind those of Japan or China.

You will notice how I have refrained from mentioning food so far, because that's a very different matter entirely. If you want to bring up Vietnamese or Korean food, you also have to bring up the fact that Chinese food is an staple onto itself, and that Japanese foods such as Sushi, Tempura, Ramen, Teriyaki, etc. are household terms.

And having a Vietnamese character in a cartoon is hardly what I'm talking about.

Compare one Vietnamese character in an otherwise fully American show vs the many shows directly based on Japanese or Chinese culture, like Avatar or Samurai Jack.

What do people know about China beside fast food, Mao, ming vases, the chinese zodiac and one taoist symbol? Buddhism isn't exclusively chinese. Tibet was annexed, but it is not chinese. Nobody has read Romance of the Three Kingdoms or Journey to The West, they probably don't even know of them. What are some chinese words that have become universal, how common are they? If you asked fifteen years ago, no one could've named a single chinese brand. They still can't name even one chinese emperor. Westerners do not obsess over chinese swords or fashion, or listen to chinese music. Those porcelain tea sets were popular in 18th century, not now.

The way I see it Japan developed much like Europe in the way that they were at war with another for so long that war was commonplace and advanced, after Europe Japan quickly changed everything to adapt unlike every other Asian country that was being colonized and fucked. This to me is the reason Japan has been more quickly advancing than the rest, their quick judgment to change and adapt to survive.

This, and Japan is isolated from the mainland allowing some degree of autonomy instead of having to worry the 4000 year old behemoth meddling in internal politics or in vietnams case, invading.

Modern Korea cultural exports is almost as much as Japan, and definitely more relevant than China, unless you're talking about premodern history, by which only China really matters

Japan was the first eastern nation to modernize and join the west. That they are 100 years ahead of everyone over there (sans China) shouldn't surprise anyone when they modernized 100 years earlier than them. They also had the benefit of being literally rebuilt from ashes by the USA, added to the winning sphere of the cold war, and granted access to western markets for export.

People have always had a fascination with the east, and for a long, long time Japan was the only relevant east we could access (though Korea too, recently). The west is still in something of an adverse relationship with China (communists, etc) so it's not surprising interest in all things China has been slow to take off.

Though this question is really a long-form 'why is anime popular though?' which has more specific answers.

>What do people know about China
About current China? Probably only fearmongering.

About traditional China? People are generally very aware of the idea of China's millennial Empire and the aesthetics that come with it. It may not be something concrete like Sengoku Jidai Samurai, but that image is ingrained the the general culture probably better than Victoria Era England or the Roaring 20's, which are similarly romanticized periods.

It's better if people don't know. China must exist for the Chinese and Asia, not to satisfy media desires of young white and brown people.

>Buddhism isn't exclusively chinese.
Xiaolin monks and Kung Fu are, though.

>Modern Korea cultural exports is almost as much as Japan
Yet nobody knows jack about Korean mythology or history.

Korean pop culture is very popular among a certain demographic all over the world at this moment, but it doesn't really compare to the way Japan has been able to put their culture and history to the limelight (setting aside the popularity of anime).

Thanks, that's a very nice answer.

>Though this question is really a long-form 'why is anime popular though?'
It's really not, though. I know full well why anime is popular, and if anything, my question about it would be "why did 2D animation develop that way only in Japan?", though I know enough about the history of animation enough to make educated guesses.

Please kill yourself.

Stop projecting your ignorance and insecurity. China will be the number one rival of Western civilization. Deal with it.

>What do people know about China beside fast food, Mao, ming vases, the chinese zodiac and one taoist symbol?
Chopstick, architecture, calligraphy, philosophy, FengShui(I've heard Bill Gates believe it), panda, great wall, forbidden city...etc. Quite many I'd say. Besides, Weebs have to learn some Chinese(Kanji) in order to learn Japanese.

>What are some chinese words that have become universal, how common are they?
Example A: "China", a common name of porcelain ,no? Example B: "Silk", another common name which is direct translated from ancient Chinese thousands years ago.

>They still can't name even one chinese emperor
So you're saying nobody know Qin Shi Hung in the West? That one emperor White revisionists are so eager to claim his identity and terracotta army?

>Nobody has read Romance of the Three Kingdoms or Journey to The West, they probably don't even know of them.
Look at those Dynasty Warriors, and Monkey King in all those western Moba games. So precious.

>Westerners do not obsess over chinese swords or fashion
Modern QiPao is literally "reinvented" by Westerner. Besides, Westerner's favorite Katana has Chinese root.

None of that indicates China has a greater current cultural influence than its neighbors. Sure, you influenced your neighbors, and exported enough things to the west to have inklings of China all over the globe (Porcelain, etc). China will be number one rival of Western civilization? Maybe when you finally claw your way out of that Century of Humiliation, as it stands the tiny step-son off China off the coast has more cultural influence in the West than China does.

>I've heard Bill Gates believe it
Why would anyone care about that?

This is just like the Indians who claim that Germany used secret Sanskrit scriptures for their rocket science. Or Tamils that claim that there's Tamil writing in the Kremlin.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Chinese culture, but I will never understand why people try to validate their ancient culture by saying "X smart/important person believes in it!".

I have no way of knowing whether Bill Gates "believes" in Feng Shui, but I'm more interesting on the question of why would anyone care if he does. Feng Shui is interesting by itself, without needing the meaningless and bogus validation of a billionaire computer nerd.

Not him, but which of China's neighbors has more cultural influence than China itself?

The only contenders I can think of are India and Russia, and you'd be hard pressed trying to argue in favor of them being more influential to global culture than China.

>None of that indicates China has a greater current cultural influence than its neighbors.
Yeah, except I never claim that.

>when you finally claw your way out of that Century of Humiliation
Yeah, we kinda did already. Deal with it

Your shitpost has been beated to death.

>Why would anyone care about that?
Well western media care about that. I've heard it first from your western medias.

Japan has more influence in the west than China at the moment. We can add up all the historical impact of China on the west, sure, but that doesn't really mean much in current century cultural trends/impacts.

>Stop projecting your ignorance and insecurity. China will be the number one rival of Western civilization. Deal with it.
>

In the case of Korea, because their original culture was completely annihilated by Japan in the second world war. It's hard to be a cultural exporter when your culture is basically just Japan-lite these days.

.I forgot to mention Weeb's favorite "Kimono" also have Chinese root. Of course this still doesn't mean China has a greater current cultural influence than its neighbors. BUT our neighbors (such as Japan and Korea) are doing great jobs to promote them for us "indirectly". For this, I actually appreciate them.

Its so impressive that even chinese are rediscovering their lost ancient kimono and ditching their "qing tainted" actual traditional culture
Really makes you think

Their entire culture is being fucked by bigger countries the culture they had was a rip off is China anyway

Western media can report the story of a woman getting offended by a tweet, that doesn't mean it is relevant in the slightest.

>your western medias
Why are you being this divisive? You act like you would be responsible for whatever bullshit were to appear in Chinese media, as if Chinese people were a unified block. China is very diverse, and so is the west.

Well, if you count Japan, then yeah. I wasn't counting Japan, given that there's no actual border between it and China. And more importantly, the overachivement of Japan is the subject at hand in this thread to begin with, so it's a little redundant to bring it up again.

Korea had been part of Japan for decades by the time of WWII though, so that's a little inaccurate. It mostly happened before and during WWI, and during the interwar period.

But Japanese culture is not Chinese. Sure, China influenced it greatly for centuries, but however many roots the Kimono has in Chinese culture, it is a Japanese thing and has been for centuries at this point. Trying to claim it is needlessly desperate when there's so much culture that's actually Chinese out there for the world to see.

>we wuz wearing kimonos too before da qingz ruins us!
Pathetic

The Korean cultural powerhouse has been on-going for the last two decades now and it is pretty successful worldwide. Just because you're not the target demographic (or just plain ignorant of sub-cultures) doesn't mean they don't exist or are irrelevant.

Tae kwon Do is one of the most well known and practiced martial arts around the world.

Korean dramas are hugely popular around Asia and have gained considerable success in western demographics too. The same with K-pop (both boy and girl bands).

Technology wise there are many huge Korean companies on the world stage - Samsung should be the most obvious but many others abound.

OP is just ignorant.

You're assuming that I'm ignorant when you're completely missing the point of the thread, which I've stated repeatedly now.

K-pop and the like are very popular, sure, but that's Korean pop culture, not Korean tradition. They're basically the Korean version of American boy bands (and the female counterpart). They have nothing to do with Korea's X-year old history.

And technological exports have nothing to do with culture, you're just being retarded at this point. I'm using an LG phone at this very moment, and I drive a Hyundai car. That doesn't get me any closer to Korean culture in the slightest.

The answer you are looking for is Business.

>implying tradition isn't just pop culture 50 years ago
You're just being autistic because you don't understand that there is no clear cut distinction between tradition and pop culture except the passage of time.

>>K-pop and the like are very popular, sure, but that's Korean pop culture, not Korean tradition. They're basically the Korean version of American boy bands
You could say the same thing about Anime

Are you really this illiterate?

I'm talking about all the hundreds of years of Korean tradition and history that have happened before the modern pop culture from the last decade.

Are you saying that Korean culture started this millennium? Are you saying Korean culture is as shallow as a bunch of pretty boys singing shit songs and starring in bad TV shows?

Which is exactly why I never mentioned anime in the OP and why I've stated time and again that the popularity of anime isn't the subject of discussion. I'm talking about the popularity of other forms of Japanese culture, some of which took precedence in the West before anime even became a thing.

Out of curiosity, which forms of Japanese culture do you think had popularity before anime?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japonism

Anything that had to do with ninja and samurai. Bonsai trees and Japanese gardening in general. Japanese carpentry (and architecture to an extent). Bits of Japanese language that have become general knowledge, such as knowing that -san is (kind of) Japanese for "Mr." or that "arigatou" means "thank you" and that "sensei" means teacher. Origami and (to a lesser extent) Ikebana.

Not to mention gastronomy such as Sushi and Sake which were already becoming popular in the West before the turn of the 20th century (only to drop in popularity when Japan became "the enemy").

Nigga are you fucking for real? The entire artistic movement of Japonism, the works of Akira Kurosawa, both traditional and modern Japanese literature obtain widespread acclaim in the West, Western interest on the Samurai culture and pretty much everything from the Warring States Period for starters.

Also holy shot at the people still railing at OP for anime, read the God damn thread you morons

Ramen and tempura were intorduced form China and Portugal, repectively.

Ramen are Chinese noodles inside a broth. The basis might be Chinese but the dish itself is Japanese.

You are right with Tempura, although it is telling that the whole world, including the West, refers to Tempura with the Japanese name and relates it to Japan despite the dish starting right there in Europe.

No one in the West even knew about Japan before the 1600's.

Everyone knew about China since at least Roman times.

t. Retard

All the neighbors are literally cooy-paste versions of Tang China + modern technology.

Whatever it is its better than current china

>Having such a massive inferiority complex that people knowing about you somehow still makes you just a tool for western desire.

asian masculinity pls go.

DYNASTY WARRIOR
Y
N
A
S
T
Y

W
A
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So...?

Actually, while Japan resembles the Tang dynasty a lot, Korea looks a lot more like the Song dynasty.

Tell me about Vietnam, Veeky Forums.

What were they up to before the French got there?

>Warring States Period
>Japan

Half of Vietnam has only been Vietnamese for a couple hundred years. Most of Vietnam has been Vietnamese for less than a thousand. Vietnam has, during that time, also been near constantly fighting to secure its existence from outside conquest.

Japan and China have always been large regional, and more importantly, independent powers.

Sriracha sauce is Thai.

Being bullied by the Chinese.
Bullying the Cham and Khmer.

It's actually very funny.

-China has a Warring States Period.
-Japan copies the name for a similar period in their history, about 1.5 millennia later
-The Japanese version is just as known if not more.

-China has a Three Kingdoms Period.
-Korea copies the name for a similar period in their history, about three hundred years later
-Nobody knows about the Korean version.

Even the reason I learned about this myself was due to a Japanese comic set in a fictional version of the Korean Three Kingdoms period.

Various states of vassalage to the Chinese. Occasionally directly annexed during strong periods of the Chinese.

Is the history of Vietnam really just a constant shift between being dominated by the Chinese and conquering the South?

And French conquest. But yeah, that's pretty much it's whole history

The massive influence of China in Korean and Vietnamite culture is undeniable, though. Just like in Japanese culture.

Well that's the broad gist of the history of every nation bordering China, Korea and Vietnam particularly because they were kingdoms in their own right next to the giant. It certainly has it's own interesting history, but it is defined largely by it's neighbor. Probably have to find an East Asia expert to get a real rundown on it's nuance.

I've never heard a single one of this words except kimchi, and that one I know because my sister is a k-pop fan. Wouldn't be able to say what kimchi is if not provided a context. Even rednecks and niggers know what sushi is.

>I know full well why anime is popular, and if anything, my question about it would be "why did 2D animation develop that way only in Japan?", though I know enough about the history of animation enough to make educated guesses.
Not him but please explain

They """knew""" about China. And probably not everyone but a very select group. Even India, way closer and widely known, was kind of a distant magic land for classic era europeans (and even middle easteners).

>Well that's the broad gist of the history of every nation bordering China
Does it apply to anyone else other than Vietnam and Korea, though? (Leaving aside the "conquering the south" part for Korea, since their domination of the peninsula has stayed that way for a long time now barring Japanese invasions).

China's other neighbors, like East Turkestan, Tibet, Nepal, and other SEA nations aside from 'nam, may have had some influence from China but they never really became dominated by them until fairly recently (if at all), and as such their histories mostly developed independently. And northern steppe nomads rarely had a "kingdom" in order to be Chinese tributaries to begin with.

And then there's Japan, who got very influenced by China but was never really dominated by them. They made it very clear they wouldn't stay tributaries relatively early on in history, and China couldn't really project power over them effectively for obvious reasons.

They resisted the Yuan mongols, but this is basically part of being bullied by China anyways.

All the other nations, japan included, were helped a lot by geography. Japan, unlike Tibet, Burma or Central Asia, didn't have a second focus of high culture to use as base for it's own one. It's only natural that chinese influence is stronger and more evident.

Also it's false that central asia wasn't dominated by China until recently. The Tang even reconquered bits of Persia for the Sassanid dynasty for a very brief time.

Because Korean and Vietnamese cultures are just Chinese 2.0.

Japan had a shyalamalamlan twist to their Sinophiliac episode.

SEA nations got routine invasions and tributary demands from China (often at the cost of entire armies to tropical conditions), but avoided direct annexations due to difficulty of control. Still, papa China riding over a hill to occasionally ruin your day must have been pretty annoying.

Japan you covered,

Korea and Nam were the premiere kingdoms to fight over. Korea collapsed at least one entire dynasty for their troubles (military over-commitment into the peninsula).

Mongolia/Xinjang/Turkestan was one long, eternal dance of China influencing and paying tribes to fight each other, and not unite and fuck them up. They still got fucked up on the regular-- Ghengis, Qing, Northern/Southern Dynasties, etc. Direct annexation sorta did heppen, but these areas weren't proper states to be conquered and administered.

Tibet, all I can say was it was Mongols-lite for early history. No idea what became of it in later periods outside Buddhist revolution.

Dominated is probably the wrong word, but defined by their relationship with for long periods, most regions next to China qualify.

Why anime is popular, or why did animation develop the way it did in Japan and not anywhere else?

For the former, it is mostly format and variety.

1) It is no secret that TV audiences nowadays are generally more appreciative of continuous narratives than series of stand alone episodes. Yet, for some reason, that was mostly unheard of outside of soap operas (which have their own set of problems) in American TV up until Twin Peaks. Meanwhile, while Anime was also fond of the episodic format, it's having continuous and complex narratives for very a specific audience since Gundam at the latest, so there was a 20 year head start to explore the tropes.

2) Live action television is somewhat limited in the scope of things it can accomplish due to the necessity of realism (just look at what percentage of popular/acclaimed American TV is crime drama or sitcoms, or how independent productions in developing countries are either soap operas or historical dramas). Stuff like Game of Thrones is popular because there's barely any alternative to it when talking live action, while fantasy shows in anime have gotten to a point where they have to be a parody of themselves to remain fresh. You can emulate any live action series with animation, but you can also explore settings, genres and themes that are pretty much impossible with live action (just look at popular anime shows like Attack on Titan, Sword Art Online, Naruto or JJBA).

For the latter, I think it has a lot to do with the fuckload of money Japan had in the latter half of last century, and that a niche market of mature animation was quick to develop. Western animation has been pigeonholed into being "for children" for pretty much ever (leaving aside Adult Swim-style dark humor), while Japanese animation found its niche away from children's cartoons thanks to the nudges in that direction from extremely expensive home video releases of manga adaptations and ambitious TV works such as Gundam and Evangelion.

Small disclaimers due to lack of space:
-I have no idea about European television and how it has developed, so I can't really take that into account.

-There's a very good discussion to be had about the differences between Japanese manga (and the styles it has influenced all over Asia now) and American comics (and Franco-Belgian comics, for that matter), which has obviously influenced the pool of inspiration and animated adaptations that got critical and popular acclaim on their respective countries.

Korea created K-pop and it's huge in the world. More popular then hip hop or EDM now. And all so called Japanese culture is stolen from Korea. They are Korean culture in a way.

PSY - GANGNAM STYLE(?????) M/V youtu.be/9bZkp7q19f0

Sure thing, Seung Park.

>And all so called Japanese culture is stolen from Korea
>we wuz samurai n sheitt

Both Korea and Japan stole their culture from China, don't kid yourself.

>K-pop
>More popular then hip hop or EDM now.
Bullshit.

Yes, it really makes you think, how come Manchu still lost their language, identity and assimilate into Chinese society totally even though they forced Han wore their costume (which is actually also derive from partially Han costume). But nothing pathetic though, they're all loyal Chinese citizens now, modern Qi Pao is lovely, on white ladies, too

Feng Shui is kinda popular among businessman and rich people even in the West. It's true though. Bill Gates is just a relevant example, he's one of the richest man and most influential IT juggernaut in the world after all.

My point is that there's no need to bring up random people for validation.

Why should I care whether Feng Shui is popular among businessmen in the US? Shouldn't I care about Feng Shui due to its own merits (like I do)?

>Vietnam and Korea

Both had been invaded by America. About a quarter of population was killed. Cities had been bombed to rubble. Guess this plays a role.

Nah, look at there's nothing like that for Korea or Vietnam.

Thanks for bothering user

>Japan had a shyalamalamlan twist to their Sinophiliac episode.
That's a funny way to put it, but it's true.

No problem. Just as a heads up, Gundam came out 11 years before Twin Peaks, not 20. Sorry for the goof.

Gook here.
Anime was the third nuke.
Kpop was the fourth.
Someone save my country. Everyone there looks like a woman now. My cousin wears motherfucking skin masks.

Stop plastic surgery and retrieve Pyongyang. I know your country have a great history.

because japan spent half a decade culturally synthesizing with the west (and im strictly referring to post-wwii) while china spent half a decade not only rejecting western culture but their own culture as well

>while china
But OP's question was about Vietnam and korea.

What if there's nothing interesting in their culture? You know, China and Japan were "crazy". They had castration, foot binding, harakiri etc. While Korea and Vietnam were relatively peaceful and which means boring.

>and Monkey King in all those western Moba games. So precious.
Just a small note - western game devs trying to cater to their Chinese audience is not the same as the monkey king really being known in the rest of the world just because of Chinese cultural impact. And also, really, westerners can't name a chinese emperor; shit, americans barely know that Europe is not a country.

>Europe is not a country
Wat?!

Vietnam does have some interesting traditions in its culture such as teeth dyeing but those traditions were faded during colonization where people were forced (or willingly) Westernize. now the only thing for people to define our cultures is the cuisine.

South Korea's export level is similar to Japan.

Vietnam, not so much.

There's a key element to China/SKorea/Japan that allows them success. American market.

Vietnam won their war. So America wants nothing to do with it.

They look ugly

At least anime is somewhat original. Kpop is literally just re-treading the 90s boy/ girl band craze. And Kdramas are the most schlocky garbage, on par with Mexican telenovellas.

t. Gyopo

Burgerboi, having good skin isn't a bad thing.

Surgery rates are 13 people per 1000 every year and that's mostly concentrated in richest part of Seoul and some shit. Laser eye surgery, dental stuff, balding shit and foreigners all count towards the stats so we truely don't know how much actually do it. It still needs to stop being encouraged.

>Relatively peaceful
I guess. But if you count in:
Goguryeo Wei War
Baekje Invasion of Silla
Silla Invasion of Baekje
Goguryeo Invasion of the South
Goguryeo Sui War
Goguryeo Tang War
Silla Tang War

Later Goguryeo Baekje, Silla Crisis

North&South State

Khitan Rebellion in Balhae
Khitan Invasion of Korea
Jin Invasion of Korea
Mongol Invasion of Korea
Scholarly purge of Korea
Confucian/Mongol Advocate crisis
Ming Invasion of Korea

Japanese Invasion of Korea (Imjin)
Qing Invasion of Korea
Sino Russian Border skirmish
French Intervention in Korea
American Intervention in Korea
Gwangmu reform

Korean Provisional Government against
Manchuko.
Armed Conflict against IJA

Korean War

It's really not that peaceful.

The longest peace we ever had was 200 years during the Joseon Dynasty.

I also didn't add Other shit tones of conflicts and more documented ones.

Why is HISTORICAL Korean culture not well known in the world? Well there are barely any attempts to export it is probably the numva one reason.

Inside the Sinosphere, we were pretty well respected for number of things that modern people don't care about.
youtube.com/watch?v=xDmBtNrC5Lc

China doesn't need any explanation, it's always been one of the largest countries in the world.

What about Japan? It developed a unique and high culture, influenced by China but also so distinct from it. There are also some parallels between Europe and Japan - feudalism, samurai(knights), castles, bushido.

Unfortunately, traditional Korean culture was wiped out by Japan. They killed artists and burned books etc. There's no way you can learn it now. But modern Korean culture is taking over the world. K-pop, K-drama, K-movie are creating an unprecedented boom all over the world. Korean phones and cars are also sweeping the market. The reason Japanese culture was popular in the world was that they stole every good things from Korea and pretended they were Japanese. Like cherry blossoms, tea ceremony, kimono, kendo, sumo, karate, these things are all Korean invention.