What would happen if California seceded today through referendum?

>if California seceded today
Complete infrastructural failure. California is completely dependent on out-of-state support for absolutely everything, from water to energy to food etc.
One sided and sudden secession would directly invite the US government to just stall out trade negotiations until Cali unconditionally surrenders to whatever the gov wants.

It would be interesting to see, but I simply can't imagine America using their troops against their own people who are peacefulls protesting. That would go against core American values

>I simply can't imagine America using their troops against their own people who are peacefulls protesting.
peaceful protest =/= secession or even rebellion, that would be considered treason

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

>literally commit treason
>WHERE JUST PEACEFULLY PROTESTING BRAH

>en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
>There was a significant national response to the shootings: hundreds of universities, colleges, and high schools closed throughout the United States due to a student strike of 4 million students,[10] and the event further affected public opinion, at an already socially contentious time, over the role of the United States in the Vietnam War.[11]
The same would happen if army would attack peaceful protestors nowadays

let's assume for the sake of the argument it is a peaceful secession

>let's assume for the sake of the argument it is a peaceful secession
The 'secession' part is deciding, it would be considered treason and not be tolerated, either the government would cut off California, forcing a surrender, as suggested, or they'd march in.

Political correctness here, reputation and humanitarianism there, at the end the US government wants to preserve the US's power and it won't simply let its most powerful state (economically, in terms of population, strategic importance etc.) secede without a fight.

Wouldn't allow it any way
Secrssion is seen as treason in america
Even if they decide to not stop the secession they could just cut off the water and power and watch californa come crawling back

>And considering how UK allowed Scotland to vote in referendum, this would put America in a very bad light and damage their reputation
Blocking Catalonia's referendum doesn't seem to be overly damaging for Spain's.

I agree that America could use econmic sanctions or infrastructure to pressure California, I just dont see them using troops against their own people

land of the free

Because they aren't sending in troops to kill Catalonians, duh

>I just dont see them using troops against their own people
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War

If the secessionists wouldn't give in they'd march in and restore order, if there'd be resistance it would be crushed.

America has literally done this multiple times you tard

The last time they did it was during the vietnam war, and it lead to America beeing forced to pull their troops out of Vietnam

But thats different from a state literally attempting to commit treason, californa at that
They would have their shit pushed in faster than the mid west can say i told you so

Most Americans HATE Californians and would gladly use any reason at all to kill them, including secession. That goes double for the armed forces who are stereotypically conservative straight white gentile men.

> this would put America in a very bad light and damage their reputation
why would the most hypocritical country in the world that is also hated by 99% of world population care or even perceive the change in their reputation

>I find it very hard to believe that American troops would be willing to shoot at their own people.
They did it last time

This. Cali needs things like my state's massive hydroelectric dam to survive.

...

>Why bother? Just cut water and power,
>California is completely dependent on out-of-state support for absolutely everything, from water to energy to food

I want you to take a moment and cite exactly what percentage of water, power and food is sourced out of state. I also want you to cite the exact delivery mechanisms.

you would never do that today, that would mean RIP USA

Wrong.

California is at least as self-sufficient as Italy, and about the same size.

yeah they totally cannot make agreements with Mexico and South America right?

>I find it very hard to believe that American troops would be willing to shoot at their own people.
Every time someone posts something paraphrasing this, I make the jackie-chan meme face.

There has never been a time where they were ordered to, and failed to do so.

Even when they were ordered to shoot at their own veterans:
military.com/video/specialties-and-personnel/veterans/us-military-attacks-war-veterans-1932/3212552459001

Not that it makes the US army worse than any other - there's not a whole lot of incidents in history where an army refused to attack its own people, and US history isn't very long. Just say they terrorists, or whatever, and you're good to go, that's pretty much the whole point of military conditioning.

would they shoot the majority of californians if they vote Yes to the secession?
you couldn't use the terrorist card against millions of people, especially if they belong to your own culture

The fucking Colarado River? Which is controlled by the USA if California secedes? Are you fucking stupid?

I for one would volunteer to force uppity Californians back in line

A really small portion of California's water overall. Arizona takes half of it already.

>would they shoot the majority of californians if they vote Yes to the secession?
Just shoot the leaders, most of the rest will fall in line after that.

Oh fuck off, I'm Australian and I know your water is even more fucked than ours, keep begging and pleading for daddy Union to bail you out though

They can't legally seceded, so yeah, civil war would be the only option, lest they could get an amendment ratified, but I Cali is a cash cow, so I don't think the union would be willing to let it go, however hated it maybe.

The only state that has a leg to stand on for a legal secession is Texas, and even then, not really.

California does, however, technically have its own civil citizenship. You can even be a citizen of California without being a citizen of the United States.

Oddly, this loophole ultimately caused the Mormons of Utah to bring about nationwide gay marriage, in a roundabout and ironic way, but that's a long story.

Explain that Mormon part lad, sounds interesting as fuck

Ya know folks, it's not as if California is getting all this water and electricity for free.

I assume it'd be the same as it is now - they'd pay for it. Price might go up, but the damned gaylord state has a bigger economy than the next 40 states below it combined.

Not if you pull a cuba and do a complete blockade
Can't get shit that way

Watch it crash overnight without the fed to suck your dick

Well, long story long...

See, California had this odd citizen-of-the-state law, where you can be a citizen of another state, or even nation, and still declare a special California citizenship, that allows you to vote on California propositions, even if you aren't currently a resident. This was once easy to do. If you had family in Cali, you could sign up, regardless how far removed or where you lived.

So first, the Mormons (go figure) introduce a law to ban gay marriage in California - even though it wasn't really a thing yet. The LDS had every member, anywhere, who had a relative in California, sign up for CS citizenship, and vote. This, by some estimates, inflated the "for" vote by over 130%.

Now, this was ultimately doomed, as the Cali state constitution has a clause against laws based on sexual orientation, and has for ages. Cali supreme court thus killed it right quick.

So, the Mormon's stepped up their plans, and made Proposition 8, amending said constitution to nullify that, and ban gay marriage. They worked their magic again (even though the rules had changed a bit), and walah, California, the bluest state in the nation, home to the largest openly gay population in the nation, if not the world, miraculously bans gay marriage.

This is where they fugged up, as the only place left to appeal this to, was the now SCOTUS. The pretty much inevitable was, when you mix anti-discrimination clauses with the incorporation clauses: nation wide gay marriage.

...and pretty soon Utah's own anti-gay marriage laws were killed by that same ruling.

Moral to the story: When San Francisco wants to be gay, just let them be, or you'll end up fucking yourself in the ass.

>most of the rest will fall in line after that.
or they radicalize, go berserk and riot in a country full of weapons
then ahi ahi señor

Well you could, in a peaceful succession.

Cali actually gives more taxes back than it eats, but true, it'd fsk the budget no end in the short term. Kinda suspect they'd be making their own currency at some point though.

Before you go on about "Fucking liberal activist judges!", remember, this is the same logic that same SCOTUS used to extend the 2nd amendment rights to cover not only the Federal government's ability to take your guns, but also the State's, overruling the core precedent behind all gun control, that had been in place for nearly 150 years.

Win some, lose some.

Not just peaceful
Blockade that shit and let the rape commence

An economy is more than taxes and exises, Cali is poor in natural resources and your boor water won't be enough for an overpopulated state in the long term, hell it wasn't enough in the 70's with the support of the union

>Cali is poor in natural resources
U wut m8?

I mean, yeah, the southern half is lacking in water, but as natural resources go, Cali is a literal and figurative gold mine. ...and a lot of the ludicrous amount of resources they do have goes untapped due to EPA regulations and natural park reserves, all of which they'd be freed from.

They are home to the largest American IT and tech industry in the world, the largest oil trade in the nation (yes, bigger than Texas), and the largest agricultural sector in the nation - being responsible for more than half of the nation's non-imported food stuffs, so, as long as there isn't a war involved, they could just buy whatever they need - which, again, is exactly what they already do.

It would collapse and the US military would occupy it.

It would collapse economically. MUH 7TH LARGEST ECONOMY is a brainlet tier argument of people who don't understand how economies actually work, it would be a disaster if they didn't have at least a FTA with the US in place.

>I require peer reviewed citations for everything I don't agree with
You're not that important, cupcake.

>we should let our largest state leave and fragment our nation because REPUTATION
reddit logic

>succession
It's secession you idiot.

>A thread dedicated to bitching about California.

Goddamn it. First /pol/ and now /int/ is leaking?

I'll make this quick and easy and address all of the same questions that always pop up when people discuss Californian secession.

No. Most Californians do not support secession and see the current trend as people whining about the current administration. There is a good reason Calexit was fringe. It will take a lot more for us to even consider the possibility.

California has water issues but not nearly as much of a problem as Americans would like to believe.

Yes California gives more to the feds than it receives and it could probably survive on its own economically, but we would still see a noticeable step down going it on our own and people tend to overlook the benefits of being attached to an empire, any empire.

Businesses leaving California is not an issue of "business killing liberals" of high regulation, but a factor of our ridiculous housing prices. People were fine with California stringent standards because they usually came with well educated and highly skilled personnel and good stability. Then we got flooded with millions of Americans who pumped up housing costs with their NIMBYism. Now those educated personnel and natives can't afford to live here and the businesses can't afford to buy land here. In the event of secession businesses would most likely come here and leave here for the same reasons they always have since it doesn't much matter where you are based when it is a globalized economy.

>lol calishits have no guns.

Since when did the extent of a countries gun laws affect its ability to wage war? If the government of California wanted to secede then they would arm their own forces, not make it "bring your own gun to work day".

We would still get stomped because the Americans are 9 times our size in terms of population.

>Calls people brainlets
>Still thinks hes too good to back up his arguments

I'm a female, and I wasn't the one who made the original argument. Imageboards scorn spoonfeeding and rightfully so.

I'll level with you. I have seen idiots who think that all of California's water comes from Texas when not a single drop comes from there. I have seen people who think all of Californians food is imported even though the state produces a major share of the unions crop yield. Arguments about California are so filled with hyperbole and outright lies at this point, that I just wanted to know if anybody has done even the most cursory research into the subject.

Celebrate over no longer having to bleed money through Federal taxes, then promply mismanage that extra cash so hard that we lose our vaunted "6th largest economy" status.

>and a lot of the ludicrous amount of resources they do have goes untapped due to EPA regulations and natural park reserves, all of which they'd be freed from.
Hilariously, California's state environmental restrictions actually go above and beyond the EPA's in a lot of cases. They'd have to basically sell their environmentally-friendly souls to mine said resources.

It would become Mexico-tier.

America restricts access to the western side of the Colorado river and the California is royally fucked.

It already is Mexico tier, Silicon Valley and Hollywood cannot offset that.

This is true - and sometimes the EPA even prevents Cali from being as environmentally strict as they want to be... But I suspect, when push comes to shove in such a situation, California's elite would put their pocket books well before their souls, as they almost always do. (Even the desire for stricter regulations has more to do with the opportunity to sell more emission controlling tech, than hippie-think.)

>California's state environmental restrictions actually go above and beyond the EPA
Which is funny because California is the most polluted state in America.

I suppose. Leftism has never worked, California is no different in that aspect.

Only 8-10% of our water comes from the Colorado River. It would take some strong belt tightening measures in cutting down waste but it isn't a death sentence. Not to mention the core of Californian population and agriculture is not Colorado fed.

How would they restrict access? Manning the existing dams would require a level of manpower and resources (especially money) which the U.S. may not have due to loosing 10% o their population and a major portion of their tax income. We man our own pumps and aqueducts which means that severing California from the river on its border rests entirely on the U.S.'s ability to retain water upstream which will also result in severing the water resources of a large portion of Arizona unless they want to shell out money they don't have for a new aqueduct.

You also forget that due to the high proportion of U.S. crops that California produces, a failed California would fuck up the rest of the union immensely.

>>California's state environmental restrictions actually go above and beyond the EPA
>Which is funny because California is the most polluted state in America.
It actually makes perfect sense. We have such strict laws because we had such a problem. Also a large portion of that pollution is actually blown in from China.

>Also a large portion of that pollution is actually blown in from China.
IDK about that... But those strict regulations sure have worked. We used to have six to twelve stage 3 smog alerts every summer when I was a kid - even got out of school for some of them. Yet we've had all of two since the 90's.

(Yes, I'm old.)

Granted, that might have to more to do with so much of the heavy industry being moved abroad, rather than the strict car emissions, and if you're near the refineries in Long Beach, ya still can't leave your window open, for fear that if your cat sits up there, it'll explode into a ball of black dust when it hops off.

Well, that, and the air pollution problems are pretty much entirely restricted to LA, cuz it's in a basin, and yes, surrounded by factories and refineries.

The beaches near the ports are pretty fucked too, except maybe Sacramento, but that's true of every major port in the world - as a whole, California is fairly pristine, especially given its population size.

Sherman would set them straight and down Google's et al tech giants servers. Bringing us into a new age of no internet faggotry

Pretty sure I'd bail. Pretty sure so would millions of other working people.

Blowing google up would probably help the internet.

>Simi valley
>Salton sea
>Bakersfield
Literally Fallout tier.

Simi Valley is part of Greater LA. I suppose Bakersfield is too, by some definitions, but that place always looked pristine when I went through there - if a bit barron.

Salton Sea's deal (also under LA' umbrella), isn't really pollution - that's dust from an evaporating lake.

>southern Imperial county isn't pollution
Are you dumb?

>ins't really pollution
It's toxic beyond imaginable due to all the industrial/agricultural runoff. The water is literally thick brown and foamy all year long and the beaches are made of bones of dead fish and barnacles.

>imperial county is part of LA
Fixed

Yes, it's part of Greater LA - you aren't a Commiefornian or ya'd know that. It is also literally managed by the Los Angeles smog-control agency.

But the Salton Sea's problem isn't man made, for the most part (unless you count Al Gore). It's just a very shallow-set evaporating lake, that the above agency has no clue what to do about.

>ignoring how the worst air pollution rates are in the Central Valley
>ignoring that LA is coastal and subsequently all the pollution isn't swept inland due to the wind into the IE

t. IE here

Nah imperial's greater SD
Palm Springs area is greater LA

The lake is considered Palm Spring's domain and under LASC management.

Granted, Greater LA's reach is far more gerrymandered and larger than it has any right to be, and it might be better off under SD's management.

I'm from Arizona. No fucking way is Salton Sea a part of Greater LA, that ends at Riverside/Inland empire. You might as well claim San Diego is Greater LA by this logic.

Politics > Logic or geography out here in Commiefornia, it's managed by LA.

>You might as well claim San Diego is Greater LA by this logic.
Actually, parts of San Diego County technically are, administratively. There's is no justice in this state.

>implying
It's like you didn't even know Arizona is part of Greater LA these days

>The lake is considered Palm Spring's domain
You fucking what

It's both. It is a lake that never would have existed without a fuck up with the Colorado river and has all of the same issues that any salt lake has in that natural salt is carried into the lake from normal water but doesn't leave when the water evaporates leading to a buildup of salt to the point where it becomes too much even for saltwater fish. Yet it also suffers from absolutely putrid agriculture runoff from both California and Mexico leading to a lake which is both salty and toxic.

I have always considered anything past the San Jacinto mountains to be their own thing apart from either LA or San Diego. I also always figured the eastern border of Greater LA to be Moreno Valley/Redlands with anything past that being a bit too far off. They can be under the smog authority but I wouldn't consider them part of the "megacity".

LA is part of greater Mexico.

>t. indigenous native soon to be replaced by retarded high school graduates who couldn't make it into a real college and went to ASU and UA instead

ASU is chock full of Californian retards, it's why Tempe is so fucking liberal.

>California
>full of weapons
10/10

Dude LA doesn't even have a natural water source and the state doesn't want to get into desalinization because muh environment, it was double fucked during the drought and even had to charge people for watering their lawn. The rumor was that Oregon had enough water coming in to help CA out but didn't give any up under the pretense of them going through the drought to technically, most of our crops are luxury crops (avocados, almonds, vinyards).

The only reason we rake in so much money to maintain the illusion of a strong economy is because of Silicon Valley (which is losing its momentum and will be buttfucked by Trump's anti-immigration laws), Hollywood and the fact that we have a coast. Outside of that, we tax the shit out of the citizens, hose money at illegals, waste money of projects like the high speed rail to nowhere and drive businesses away.

Also consider that there are 32 military bases in CA, many strategically placed along the coast, of those bases there 6 Marine Corps bases with a fuckload of infantry units full of people who hate California. As someone who has lived in Southern California all his life I can say with utmost confidence, we are not just fucked if we secede, we are triple fucked and we'll deserve every second of the anal fisting we'll get and, looking at LA and San Fran, we'll probably enjoy it

It most certainly is, our congressmen like to run guns

>almonds

These little fuckers represent 55 gallons of water, each. Each fucking almond, 55 gallons of water.

And San Fran flushed 6 billion gallons of water into the ocean to help some fucking smelt spawn.

IT'S ALL FUCKING CHINATOWN

Not possible. Too much of the land is owned by the Federal government, and so are the many military bases.

Trust me brah, when I would drive through the central valley and those fucking almond ponds with all those illegals dropping dead from heat stroke I'd almost get an aneurysm.

Oh and then there's that, illegals are literally worked to death in the Central Valley, I've noticed that there's been a half assed attempt at stopping illegals from dying of heat stroke lately. Typical California Democrats bringing in these poor idiots to get paid almost half of what I would get paid with no health insurance or unions and say that they're protecting these "poor hard working people"

Ever thought about moving whiny faggot?