How do you feel about fedora tipping and general cynicism towards religion/Christianity in historical TV shows such as pic related and Vikings?
Every priest is at some point the butt of a joke about being effeminate, drunk, greedy or all three.
Especially in Last Kingdom, it makes no sense, because the Saxons are supposedly outraged about the Danes on the basis of them being pagans and heathens -- but supposedly the Christian church is just a big meme full of cowards and trouble makers. If there's no difference, why not just fight with the Danes?
Is there truth to this, or is it just hack screenwriters copying GoT and not bothering to learn the important role religion played in motivating history in those times?
It's just trite at this point. It doesn't offer any interesting critique of religion, it's just screenwriters taking out their frustrations on their parents who made them go to church.
I was particularly taken aback by it in Outlander, a series which otherwise has quite a neutral and even sympathetic portrayal of religion, where the main character and her friend are accused of being witches and nearly burned at the stake after a lengthy trial conducted by a cartoonish ecclesiastical court which better resembles a Monty Python sketch than anything from history, and a local populace who are at times literally foaming at the mouth to see them dead. In reality, belief in witches has never been common in the Scottish Highlands.
I've never seen Vikings but I think The Last Kingdom had its ups and downs with religion. Alfred is portrayed as being quite stoic and resolute and it's credited to his faith in God, and Father Beocca is pretty consistently a good egg.
Jeremiah Morales
Are you suggesting that the mainstream media portrays Christianity in a negative light?! I'm shocked, shocked OP!
Ryan Morales
>Alfred is portrayed as being quite stoic and resolute and it's credited to his faith in God, Did they portrayed his vision of Cuthbert before the Battle of Edington?
Michael Cruz
>(((((((Silverman))))))
they cant keep getting away with this
Thomas Brooks
THE GOYIM KNOW
Zachary James
It's fine because it's a story told from a non christian perspective. Vikings handled it well with Athelstan as his journey was a very human fall and return of the prodigal son to the father.
Wyatt Ramirez
I agree, Alfred and Beocca are pretty great examples. Beocca is the "butt of a joke" at times but that's more so his character than his religion.
I do agree Christianity did take it hard in the Last Kingdom more often than not, though. The scene in the Church with the arrows is a well done exception, though, as I bet scenarios akin to that happened.
Ayden Stewart
Christian used to go through much worse. Quit whining.
Jason Rodriguez
This. The church controlled everything. In Norse Greenland they consolidated land holdings and cattle and greatly contributed to the loss of the colony because they focused on building churches, importing stained glass and staying away from, and not learning from Inuit "heathens" The colony on Greenland literally traded a polar bear for a bishop once. That all sounds like a criticism but it just shows the degree of control the church had.
Adrian Scott
Do you want a safe space?
Mason Cox
This desu Christians used to get torn to pieces as part of a public spectacle (even though it wasn't a systematic effort to rid the world of Christians) and now they feel persecuted if somebody doesn't suck their dick the right way
Luis Howard
>Christians used to get torn to pieces as part of a public spectacle
We need to go back to this practice.
Thomas Ross
The last Kingdom is less guilty of this than most media. Both the Danes and Saxons have devout characters good and bad. It also has more cynical characters on both sides too.
It does have an awful "Christians are zealous to the point of being silly" which is something the Pagans never are however. Considering Christianity won in the end I somehow doubt they were as naive and silly as they are often depicted as.
Ethan Rivera
Hild was a fine piece of ass
Noah Morales
what did they mean by this?
Andrew Green
>I've never seen Vikings but I think The Last Kingdom had its ups and downs with religion. Alfred is portrayed as being quite stoic and resolute and it's credited to his faith in God, and Father Beocca is pretty consistently a good egg.
Yeah, they have some good characters. What I can't get around is the far too modern anti-authoritarian attitude towards the church among the "common people". Like, god was as real to these people as law was.
Uhtred is a fucking terrible character too. LK, like out lander, is one of those shows where you just have to block out the MC and focus on the characters around them
Thomas Hill
>Every priest is at some point the butt of a joke about being effeminate, drunk, greedy or all three. Just like in real life then?
Josiah Carter
Athelstan tuned out to be top-tier Christian in Vikings, though.
Although the Floki shit was cancer. The guy is stubbornly hating on Christianity and is trying to slaughter every Christian he sees thoughout the entire series, but then he steps into a Spanish mosque, sees Muslims praying, stops other Vikings from killing them and starts appreciating the beauty of Islamic prayer or something. I stopped watching at that point.
Anthony Bailey
Isn't outlander this movie with a dude in a spaceship who crash near a nord village, releasing an alien predator ? The priest in it was cool
Tyler Cox
christianity has been the enemy of moral progress at every moment of it's history. we'd be living in a comparable utopia without it. being ribbed on a few mediocre tv shows seems like a small price to pay for all the damage the retarded meme has caused
Lincoln Scott
...
Sebastian Miller
DA JOOZ!
Blake Robinson
>just world fallacy
Eat your sprouts because eurangutans used to starve to death all the time 8000 years ago
Joseph Russell
>we'd be living in a comparable utopia without it. Nah, we would just be muslim.
Christopher Peterson
>Hates Christianity >Loves Islam Sounds like the average modern Scandinavian.
Elijah Gonzalez
>screenwriters copying GoT Can we stop this meme where we accuse GoT of historical accuracy or lack there of, when it involves magic, and dragons, doesn't seem to even take place on Earth?
>Is there truth to this, or is it just hack screenwriters copying GoT and not bothering to learn the important role religion played in motivating history in those times? We don't know much about the common masses throughout history, but a lot of the time we get a picture of highly irreverent normies who'll take the piss out of anyone and anything.
All things considered, the Last Kingdom was alright. The Church isn't full of cowards and trouble makers any more than any other clique or institution.
Jaxson Evans
>hack screenwriters copying GoT I can't think of any religious figure in GoT who wasn't absolutely sincere about their faith and their gods. The only ones taking the piss out of religion and/or the gods are secular characters, which is pretty accurate to history and today.
Jose Jones
>is it just hack screenwriters Yes. It's futile trying to look for political or personal motivations in most television bulshittery. The truth is that most of the stuff this whole site complains about is merely there to hook in certain audience segments. It's just for money.
Camden Jenkins
>I can't think of any religious figure in GoT who wasn't absolutely sincere about their faith and their gods. I don't know about the tv series, but in the books half the church of the 7 was basically written as the standard base&greedy&lecherous trope. Think cultural depictions of pornocracy or Borgia period. It's a fairly important theme, since the corruption and following reform from the stereotypical extremist poverty priest basically set off the plot for King's Landing POVs for like two books.
Hudson Cruz
That also sounds realistic then, because poor, ascetic populist monks challenging aristocratic bon vivant clerics was common not only in Christianity but Islam and even in China and Japan.
Evan Edwards
thats the point? GoT can do whatever the fuck it wants, but shows set on earth can;t. Especially when these shows take place in a time where casual dismissal of religion just does not make sense.
which is unfortunate, because I think there is a lot more story to be found in more even-handed approaches to religion. I'm tired of anti-heroism and """gray"""" morality. Its cheap and lazy. I fucking love King Alfred in LK for this reason, and it bothers me to no end that Uhtred does not seem to wisen up to this smart cunt's ideas about kingdom and god. He has absolutely no convictions or character development. I find myself actively rooting for whoever his enemies are.
Jacob Howard
>the church of the 7 was basically written as the standard base&greedy&lecherous trope Well, if you look at the history of the Catholic church, among others, and what they did, it's pretty clear that huge swaths of the priesthood fell into this category, and had little to no belief in what they preached, or at least, as people often do, internally twisted it to justify and benefit their own self interests.
I don't find that particularly unbelievable in a historical drama - though denying the existence of the gods, on principle, that's historically rare. Even Socrates more or less started substituting another form of divinity.
Andrew Roberts
Go back
Austin Price
I tjink they're attempting to show the disconnect between church power and the religion, they're just way too heavy handed about it
Charles Fisher
David Silverman thinks Jewish identity is a meme and should be done away with.
Atheism is a far removed from Judaism, much more than any other religion especially the (((Abrahamic))) kind
Easton Wood
This. I wonder if OP has ever picked up a book on medieval history.
Zachary Perry
>In reality, belief in witches has never been common in the Scottish Highlands.
Scotland was a hotbed of persecution. King James even doctored the bible to support it, and personally supervised the execution of children as young as 12. But I suppose hanging (after prolonged torture) is more humane to burning.
