Was the Roman Empire capitalist? Or was it a communist?

Was the Roman Empire capitalist? Or was it a communist?
I just realized I just don't have an image of the "Roman economy" in my head...

Other urls found in this thread:

unrv.com/economy.php
pseudoerasmus.com/2015/05/03/fascism-left-or-right/
pseudoerasmus.com/2015/05/06/fascists-part-2/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

the pure bait in that image

Yes

The state of this board.

>blaming capitalism for things that happened before capitalism even existed
>blaming capitalism for natural disasters
>blaming capitalism for wars just because (as though the USSR and China weren't massive warmongers)
Fuck off back to /leftypol/, tard.

Neither, but closer to capitalism

>blaming capitalism for things that happened before capitalism even existed
literally not on the list
>blaming capitalism for natural disaster
t. guy that thinks Stalin ate all the grain and payed clouds not to rain
>USSR and China weren't massive warmongers
How exactly

A very early form of capitalism had developed.

>literally not on the list
Anything listed before the late 18th to mid 19th centuries is not capitalism. Capitalism as we know it developed out of the industrial revolution.
>t. guy that thinks Stalin ate all the grain and payed clouds not to rain
>dust bowl in US
>poverty and malnutrition at worst
>drought in Russia
>millions starve to death
You're at least admitting communism sucks arse at distribution.
>How exactly
>Soviet-Afghan War
>Chinese Invasion of Vietnam
>Korean War
>Sino-Indian War
>Hungarian Revolution
>Annexation of Tibet
>Winter War/Continuation War
>Polish-Soviet War
>Invasion of Poland
>Iran Crisis
>Annexation of Bessarabia

> Capitalism as we know it developed out of the industrial revolution.
U wot mate? Capitalist societies existed in Northwest Europe from Dutch and English revolutions onwards, in early 17th century. Some would go back to 16th century for England.

>Anything listed before the late 18th to mid 19th centuries is not capitalism.
>Capitalism as we know it developed out of the industrial revolution.
NOT REAL CAPITALISM
Dutch Revolt can be considered first purely "capitalist revolution", some early capitalist states existed before tho.
>dust bowl in Russia
>milions die
>fault of weather
>dust bowl in Soviet union
>milions die
>Stalin did it
>Soviet-Afghan War
Legitime Soviet interention that delayed radical islamism
>Chinese invansion of Vietnam
China wasnt legitime socialist state, especial after Dengism, Vietnam and USSR were socialist states that were defending themselves.
>Korean War
Northern attempt to liberate South from Americans
>Sino-Indian War
Caused by the India
>Hungarian Revolution
Soviet saved the Europe from being ruined by Hungarians again
>Annexation of Tibet
Tibet was theocratic dictatorship, Tibetans welcomed the Chinese
>Winter War
Soviet union offered Finland piece of land that was about 10x bigger than territory Soviets asked for. (It wasnt entire Karelia, just small part of land around Zelenogorsk, entire territory was smaller than Moscow. )
>Continuation War
Holy kek, Soviets are responsible for being attacked by Finngols
>Polish-Soviet War
Literally started by Poland, crossing of Neman
>Invasion of Poland
Saved Eastern Poland from Hitler, neccesary territory gain that saved Moscow during the Barbarossa.
>Iran Crisis
legitime support of minority group
>Annexation of Bessarabia
wasnt war, same thing as eastern Poland.

>imperialism = capitalism: the post
das rite fuck these capitalist persians trying to conquer communist greece

They were a democratic socialist society.

There was no such thing as capitalism before the industrial revolution, so the first 3 points are wrong.

Roman Empire had state-owned aqueducts, perms, et cetera, so they would be the closest to social democratic rule, however thinking of socialism and capitalism in the ancient times is kind of dumb.

why do you bunch of reactionaries can't see the true red pill?

>it's true because we say so

Rome had 2 primary sources of income, taxing conquered provinces, and pillaging neighbors who weren't quite conquered yet. For most of Rome's imperial history, people living in the city of Rome itself paid no taxes whatsoever because the constant flood of loot from foreign conquests was more than enough. One interesting detail is that tax collection was done by private corporations who would bid on the right tax certain provinces. People who were successful in securing these lucrative contacts could become very wealthy, indeed. These private tax collectors ended up having quite a bit of pull in the Senate, and often became influential in terms of foreign policy. For example, they were very important in securing emergency powers for Pompey to go and crush King Mithridates because Mithridates was seen as a threat to profits in that area.

Rome's entite system was essentially gibs for all Romans, but only Romans, supported by the exploitation of non-Romans which in turn made gibs more necessary as slavery collapsed the economy

user, I think what you're forgetting is that the USSR and China weren't real communism :^^DDD

you literally cant debunk any of them

>Katyń Massacre
There were some notes of dead Poles found and they all ended in 1940. So it could not be a massacre commited by the Nazis because they invaded the Soviet Union one year later.

Don't know about the other.

Holy shit the amount of dinduery in this post

>Soviet saved the Europe from being ruined by Hungarians again

Rome's economy was never complex enough to have a pinned economic system in our modern sense. With the only law delving into anything complex was food subsidies where Rome would levy a lower tax rate on farmers who yielded a surplus harvest.

It was mainly an agrarian-based slave driven economy that mostly traded it's agricultural products for goods traded along the silk road likes Chinese silk and spices from India.

What worked in Rome's favor was that olive oil and wine was just as in high demand in Persia and India as silk and spices were were for Rome, so the bulk of all economic activity for the empire went towards silk road trade, with the empire able to provide for itself in most, if not all other areas of its society off the resources within the Rome's borders.

a more in-depth source can be found here:

unrv.com/economy.php

>t. guy that thinks Stalin ate all the grain and payed clouds not to rain
My sides

It was faked by Anders

wow
way to go speaking out of your ass about things you clearly don't know anything about
that's 99% of Veeky Forums tho, so w/e

Lmao бpaт

>no true capitalism has been tried

>falling for anachronism
You guys suck at history.

>Shah of Iran regime 1953-79: 16,000
>No Islamic Republic of Iran regime

>yet another tankie thread

kys

Only socialist thing was free bread in rome.

That one female soldier is THICC

what I know is that from diocletian it became basic feudalism with paying taxes in kind and being tied to a certain place

but that came to be because the Romans sucked at monetary policy and didn't even think of inflation, while civil wars among "emperors" flooded the market with stupid coinage

(1/2)
>deaths of Native Americans
>African slave trade
>Haitian revolt & reprisals
All of this happened before the industrial revolution & modern capitalism came into being.
-115,150,000

>Nazism & the Holocaust
>Italian fascism
>Japanese Imperialism
>Francoist Spain
>Iran-Iraq war, which was between an anti-Western religious fundamentalist group and a dictator who nationalized the oil industry
>Iraq embargo (see above)
>Yugoslav wars (Milosevic was socialist)
>Afghani civil war
None of these were capitalist nations.
-38,400,000

>Blacks lynched in the US
>South African concentration camps
>Herero & Namaqua genocide
>Israeli wars
>Biafra war
>East Timor genocide
>Congolese civil war
These were almost entirely started by ethnic issues and were in no way started with the intent of benefiting their economy.
-7,626,445

>Paris commune
>Vietnam War & Laos bombings
>Angolan civil war
>Mozambique civil war
One side in each of these wars was either provoked by communists or funded by other communists, so let's put half the blame on capitalism and half the blame on communism.
-6,220,000/2=-3,110,000

>Irish potato famine
>Indian famines
By the same standards, the Holodomor and Great Leap Forward are caused by communist nations.
30,000,000

>World War I
Disqualified because this was due to the complex system of alliances around Europe, not the desire for profit.
-10,000,000

>Invasion of Afghanistan
Disqualified because it was in response to 9/11, and the majority of civilian deaths were due to situations caused by the Taliban.
-30,000

>Iraq War
(Mostly) disqualified. I'll only count 300,000 for capitalism (a mid-range estimate of all military and civilian deaths), since the rest of the deaths were due to conditions created under ISIS or due to terrorist attacks.
-920,000

>don't true capitalism

(2/2)

Also, I forgot to count the Contra wars under 'things where one side was backed by the USSR', so the number should be 3,125,000

>French invasion of Algeria
>Opium wars
>Sepoy Rebellion
>Belgian Congo
>Filipino War
>French colonialism
>Madagascar revolt
>Mau-Mau uprising
>Algerian War of Independence
It's debatable on whether to count these, since colonial policies were often done exclusively by and for the benefit of the state (e.g., the King of Belgium owned the Congo personally).
12,330,000

>Labor strike suppression in the US and Mexico
>Anti-left massacres in Taiwan, South Korea, and Indonesia
>Mohammed Reza Shah's Iran
>Juntas and regime changes in Guatemala, Haiti, Nicaragua, Chile,Argentina, El Salvador, Panama
>Russian coup
>Bhopal chemical leak
These are things that were done by capitalist countries to explicitly preserve economic interests.
1,569,484 is the final total for explicitly capitalist things.

Even counting exacerbated natural disasters, colonialism, cases where one side was armed by communists, and the Iraq war, the total comes out to be:
1,569,484+30,000,000+12,330,000+3,125,000+300,000=
20,324,484
About an order of magnitude lower than your listed figure.

As for communist nations, lets see:
USSR:
>Political executions: 800k
>Gulag conditions: 1.7m
>Resettled kulaks: 390k
>Holodmor: 3m
PRC:
>Counterrevolutionary suppression: 2m
>Great Leap Forward: 38m
>Cultural Revolution: 1m
Cambodia:
>Cambodian genocide: 2m
North Korea:
>Executions: 100k
>Prison camps: 1.5m
>Famine: 500k
Derg Ethiopia:
>Qey Shibir: 500k
This is a compilation of all major executions, exacerbated famines, and deaths as a result of policy that occurred in explicitly communist nations as a result of policies that were in line with their teachings.
The total is 51.49 million, or more than twice what is prescribed to capitalism.

It was imperialistic, then it became capitalistic to a degree, and then it became serfdom. Though, communists get killed no matter where they live, no matter what age.

thank you user, i was always too lazy to respond to that image

>Caused by the India
Do you even know history? Maybe the invasion of tibet is a good place to start. It was chinese imperialism pure and simple.

Lol, btfo.

>300million hours on paint

>This is a compilation of all major executions, exacerbated famines, and deaths as a result of policy that occurred in explicitly communist nations as a result of policies that were in line with their teachings.
>The total is 51.49 million, or more than twice what is prescribed to capitalism.

But all those numbers are fake.

>not real capitalism
>not realizing the whole point about that picture is to mock those people who claim communism killed 100 million in Russia and responsible for all deaths in socialist country
Finally someone took the bait

>>Nazism & the Holocaust
>>None of these were capitalist nations.

Nazis were quite explicitly pro-capitalist.

pseudoerasmus.com/2015/05/03/fascism-left-or-right/

pseudoerasmus.com/2015/05/06/fascists-part-2/

>Nazis were quite explicitly pro-capitalist.
So is the 'Communist party of china' Communist in name only. People change their opinions according to whatever is comfortable enough to keep them rich and in power. Ideology is the biggest carrot on a stick that people fall to because they are the donkeys to the ideology carrot.

>Trying to classify an state from 2000 years ago with terms thatn only emerged after the industrial revolution

why can't these retarded extremists stay in /pol/ and let us have sensible discussions about history

>happened before the industrial revolution & modern capitalism

LOL. The east india trade Company had SHAREHOLDERS. There is no bigger symptom of capitalismus.