Would China be a cultural powerhouse today if Mao hadn't pissed all their culture away?

China has no culture right now. Its absorbed most of its current culture from the west and its neighbors. Japan is the second leading cultural powerhouse in the world. First being America. Korea is coming up there, but its not to Japan's level.

If China's culture had remained intact, it might have been relevant culturally.

>China would have a population of around 500 million

what are you saying?

>That's because the only influence Chinese culture has is in the form of ¥

As if Japan was any different. Fuck, they even use the same symbol.

>China has no culture right now.
You two guys know jackshit about China.

mao was a retard when it came to population control.

moron wanted china to have as many people as possiible to "win" a nuclear war

just a total fucking maniac

Think about it, we could've had a brother in the East. Imagine ahow great China would've been

Actually they are spot on. In China they have to be taught their culture - in Japan they barely do, it's in their values from birth.

The Chinese people and military swear loyalty to the party, not the country.

The country and the Party are one and the same, comrade. Please report to the reeducation center.

sadly a lot of them are conditioned to believe that. If you insult the government, you are insulting china and are DEEPLY hurting the sensitive feelings of the chinese people.

It truly is a shame desu. China was one of the most culturally advanced countries in the world and Mao just fucking destroyed it all. The Cultural Revolution was fucking Rhodesia tier.

Lol, because Japan and America don't take from other cultures? Importing other cultures is America's entire purpose in life, and America basically rebuilt Japan from the ground-up after WW2. The idea that somehow China is a "taker" and yet America and Japan are not is just stupid.

Its currently happening right now, but even that is a sanitised, soulless, party approved version of it, its as shallow and fake as their aesthetic counterpart, the hanfu movement, its literally Varg tier larp / revivalism

Now you mention it, what if culturally "diverse" place can produce cultural impact to others? Japan took foreign culture like Chinese and American enthusiastically. People all over the world moved to America and their culture mixed thoroughly. France is considered "cultural" country, but artists in Paris were mostly from other countries like Chopin from Poland and Picasso from Spain.

It happens when people like the country. Everybody loves America and Japan because they are relatively richer and more free than your country. Now China is getting rich. But people don't like a country without personal freedom.

>big influence on the global media

Pure nonsense. Their media outlets are all well known Communist Party stooges with no cultural merit whatsoever.

>they're becoming more powerful with each passing year.

Not in a cultural sense. There is not a single modern Chinese cultural export of any note.

where were you when you realized purchasing power matters more than anything since forever

I freely admit I know very little about China. Please name modern chinese cultural exports that are successful in the west (besides food and some movies).

Fast food and fake products

There are many Chinese communities that did not have communism, yet are not cultural powerhouse Singaore taiwan etc.

It much more important to have a strong state which Mao built then to be a cultural powerhouse.

>China is a cultural powerhouse
>there's no evidence and there's actually a mountain of evidence that it's not, but that's only because people don't realize it

Nobody buys Chinese fastfood and fake products in the west.

Man, weebs are cringy.

Let's face the facts, Chinese culture was worthless and only caused problems because it was 2000 years past its prime.

Mao cleaned the slate and made it possible for the Chinese to advance into modern capitalism.

>japanese ideas changed western cultural products.
Such as?

Mainland China isn't the only China though.

Veeky Forums

What do you deem "culturally advanced" about Chinese culture?

Even if you could argue Japan is a cultural "powerhouse" it does'nt inherently buy them anything that would significantly life them up. At least the koreans have K-POP that makes people thirst for them.

Japan got a killing blow in ww2, and was finished off when they conceded to american trade deals to open up their market.

The PRC is the closest asia has to a equal trade partner to burgerland: both sides can and do stick it to each other, if japan tried that even in their prime they would falter.

To explain japan's militarism, they themselves desperately wanted to also big player in asia, Japan, Vietnam , Korea (to some extent) and India all wanted to be the next "china" of asia, unfortunately they failed for the following reasons:

Vietnam failed due to it's unconducive terrain, enviroment and the economical blow china gave them during their war.

India failed due to british colonial starvations, and the constant maintenance of the caste system that causes much internal strife in india even today.

Japan failed due to their intolerance, their "Co-prosperity sphere" is most evident of this, their total inability to properly channel the anticolonial sentiments in asia (instead wanting to be the colonists themselves) and the high degree of importance pure blood was to them meant they could not incorporate neighbouring countries into their sphere at all: they were doomed from the start.

Korea had too small of a population, and was the poland of eastern asia being stuck between china and japan

This is such a fucking stupid meme. Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore are all capitalist Chinese societies that rejected Maoist revolutionary praxis, yet ALL OF THEM have no cultural identity besides being proxies of the West.

During the cultural revolution, Mao and his cadres made some boneheaded decisions that certainly hurt Chinese culture, but a glance at Taiwan shows that safe old liberal capitalism will destroy your culture just as viciously and also subordinate your politics toward the Western market.

K-Pop is just Japanese idol pop made extra slutty and niggerish.
K-Drama is just Japanese drama with Koreans.

yet people still watch them more over Japanese ones. unless you are a Veeky Forums weeb

>was finished off when they conceded to american trade deals to open up their market.
Please tell me about these trade deals to open up their market. I'll wait.

China produces a lot of really amazing avant garde art actually. Any contemporary museum will be backed with art from China. A lot of interesting post-rock and alt folk music comes out of China too, check out Zhaoze or the Kazakh-Chinese singer Named.

Basically censorship in China is so bad that their hundreds of thousands of professional artists have to channel their creative energies toward more abstract ends if they want to reach any kind of international prominence.

The Chinese government intentionally suppresses cultural exports and imports. Unlike Korea or Japan, they would rather be seen as a cultural lightweight than allow the international market to determine their culture, and lose control of societal trends. Korea and Japan are heavily committed to catering to foreign audiences because it brings in tourism money, good pr, and because they are an American ally. Geopolitical opponents on the other hand do not benefit from conjoining cultures.

It's nothing new. China is simply continuing what they've always done, letting other people come to their culture instead of proselytizing about. Call it stubbornness or cultural arrogance, but if you ever feel China is a 'cultural powerhouse' then you will have already been sinified.

China and Korea produce a lot of high art because government supports them for prestige reasons. Japan produces influential media within the confines of the market.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Recession

1985 plaza accord

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaza_Accord

this basically eternally raped japan

Taiwan had an indigenous seperate population long before the nationalists went there. It is still pretty mixed up until this day. Why would they be the perfect preservers of traditional Chinese culture.

Hong Kong on the other hand is a single city and not a nation. Of course modern urban culture is the dominant factor here, especially when every region arround them is on its way to glorious gommunism and gets rid of any tradition.

That being said, these places still are in fact a whole lot more traditional and in touch with their history than the rest of China.
In conclusion: You defended a bad contrarian point and executed your defense rather poorly. 4/10

my bad, not a bad trade deal, a forced currency devaluation japan was not really given a choice in

>Korea and Japan are heavily committed to catering to foreign audiences
Japanese media doesn't cater to foreign audiences. They don't market outside of Japan except for video games.

How does any of what you listed count as trade deals Japan offered as a result of losing WW2?

>Even if you could argue Japan is a cultural "powerhouse" it does'nt inherently buy them anything that would significantly life them up.

Apart from living quality that is miles above living under neo-capitalism within ex-commi blocks devoid of soul and charme, of course...

yes, which is why they kill themselves at higher rates than argentinians...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

i remembered it wrongly, but the 1985 plaza accord was what i was referring to, my bad

The Plaza Accord did not open the Japanese market to foreign trade. It had been open a long time before that.

How is Taiwan more in touch with Chinese culture than mainland China? It's biggest influences are US and Japanese culture, the latter influence itself being heavily Westernized.

>that old fucking meme
Shamefur dispray. Japan also has a much lower rate of depression than most western countries. How are both numbers compatible?

Japan is an honor based culture that doesn't condemn suicide as selfish or cowardly. If even only a comparable portion of the alcoholic neet, no-lifes in any European country would kill themselves as their Japanese counterparts do, we'd have numbers surpassing them.

Japs take a rope and Europeans drink themselves to death on welfare money when they dun goofed...Muslims go for spontaneous self ignition. You get the idea.

"The manufactured goods of the United States became more competitive in the exports market but were still largely unable to succeed in the Japanese domestic market due to Japan's structural restrictions on imports. "

Is this supposed to prove your point that after WW2 Japan was forced to agree to trade deals that opened up their market?

but it still implies they arn't in a good situation for them to kill themselves at such high rates

Taiwan for a long time was the leading centre for Confucius studies and Chinese history for example. But I already told you that Taiwan is not necessarily more in touch with Chinese culture, but also its own culture, religions and traditions, since it is not originally Chinese.

Let me put it this way. Japanese culture would be a lot different if America didn't loom over them. It's not 100% coincidence Japanese culture falls so well in line with western tastes. They can incentivize cultural products that can be both very japanese in nature but also appealing to outside markets.

it isnt, i already said i recalled it wrongly, I should have been more clear to mention the plaza accord instead

>Japanese culture would be a lot different if America didn't loom over them
How does America loom over Japan culturally?

>It's not 100% coincidence Japanese culture falls so well in line with western tastes
This is the dumbest thing I read in this thread so far.

It really doesn't based on what I just argued.

>shamefur dispray
>japs
>honor based culture

Taiwan has been overwhelmingly Chinese for many centuries so that doesn't hold up. Taiwan is as Chinese as Siberia and Kazan are Russian.

What Taiwan lacks is any serious national identity at all. They're just Chinese people who consume Western culture without being able to produce much of anything beyond products of a slightly higher quality than what's made on the mainland.

Do you have any more examples besides the Confucius thing? And are the Taiwanese STILL leading in this field? I expect that Taiwan's academics were only prominent during the Cultural Revolution, when universities were heavily suppressed and many closed down altogether.

you don't commit suicide in a good situation, and most incidents of suicide in japan were often cases where the people involved felt they were too much of a burden to society. The fact that the society and their economic situation did not have the opportunities to help pull these people out proves they are not in a good situation

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze

"I cannot predict the outcome of the air battles, but you will be making a mistake if you should regard Special Attack operations as normal methods. The right way is to attack the enemy with skill and return to the base with good results. A plane should be utilized over and over again. That’s the way to fight a war. The current thinking is skewed. Otherwise, you cannot expect to improve air power. There will be no progress if flyers continue to die."

—Lieutenant Commander Iwatani, Taiyo (Ocean) magazine, March 1945

nice argument, faggot

This. Mao (and the manchu fucks) destroyed traditions and old culture, nothing about Korean or Japanese pop culture is about that besides shallow meme references like muh samurai. Most of the pop culture you weebs eat up were invented recently to fit global demand

There's no point in China doing the same thing because being late to the party and bad pr thanks to being commie. Although the government really fucked up applying all of its censorship to Hong Kong which was already exporting a healthy amount of entertainment for a small city with tiny budget

taiwans universities are faltering, and their elites are being swallowed up by the PRC.

time.com/4906162/taiwan-brain-drain-youth-china-jobs-economy/

usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/05/07/taiwan-too-many-college-graduates/26945515/

taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2017/09/08/2003678040

I have relatives in taiwan that are being directly affected by this.

>ety. The fact that the society and their economic situation did not have the opportunities to help pull these people out proves they are not in a good situation

They are ten times as many people who feel like a burden to society (or are one and don't give a fuck) and have no chance to get out of their horrible economic situation in...let's say Germany. These people remain alive and become homeless or constant welfare receivers...I wouldn't call that a life though.

Check unemployment and poverty rates between these countries and tell me again, that Japanese are objectively in a worse position than people in the US.

>you don't commit suicide in a good situation
There are many reasons to commit suicide. Financial/ career ruin is just one of them.
Robin Williams wasn't exactly poor and future-less when he committed suicide.

Their entire government and law system? Gee I can't really imagine how that could affect culture. It must be a pure coincidence that SK's hallyu started right after democratization.

t. ken-sama
Depression is diagnosed differently around the world dumbass.

unemployment does'nt matter if your being paid for shit.

They live and they have hope, the japanese kill themselves not only out of the reason to unburden their country, but also because they feel a very personal shame about it.

And it's even worse if they have a better poverty rate: the fact that they arn't as poor and yet they still kill themselves? isnt that more fucked up? And are you implying that might be homeless / on welfare due to circumstance are not worth living? You sound like a incredibly inhumane psychopath if you deem people that might be a burden today regardless of how they got there do not deserve, or should end, their lives.

>What Taiwan lacks is any serious national identity at all. They're just Chinese people who consume Western culture without being able to produce much of anything beyond products of a slightly higher quality than what's made on the mainland.

lmao you are living in the 60s or something. There's domestic disputes because people of the Taiwanese ethnicity felt opressed by the Nationalists coming from mainland China who occupied all the administrative positions and enforced their culture... the first democratic Taiwanese party took its strength from this very struggle

>Do you have any more examples besides the Confucius thing? And are the Taiwanese STILL leading in this field? I expect that Taiwan's academics were only prominent during the Cultural Revolution, when universities were heavily suppressed and many closed down altogether.

Shamanism was also supposed to be quite common. Even in big towns as represented in your pictures you'd visit a fortune teller in a dark corner before making important business decisions.
Nowadays the levels of their confucius studies are hard to tell apart since they are basically being assimilated by the PRC.

yes, but he wasn't in a good situation, using meds he basically fucked up his own mind.

the DPP is in entirety a failure, tsai might aswell be their left leaning donald trump

Out of curiosity, I've read articles from mainland sources that your new president is trying really hard to wipe off chinese history and identity in schools to create muh "taiwanese" identity.

How much truth does this hold and how many people actually support this shit?

>Their entire government and law system? Gee I can't really imagine how that could affect culture
What does America have anything to do with their entire government and law system? Japanese law is civil law and their government is also European parliamentary system.
Japanese constitution was drafted by American lawyers, but that hardly qualifies as America looming over Japan unless you are willing to redefine words.

>And it's even worse if they have a better poverty rate: the fact that they arn't as poor and yet they still kill themselves? isnt that more fucked up? And are you implying that might be homeless / on welfare due to circumstance are not worth living? You sound like a incredibly inhumane psychopath if you deem people that might be a burden today regardless of how they got there do not deserve, or should end, their lives.

Stopped taking you seriously, you virtue signaling retard. All I said was that Japanese suicide rates are not an indicator of an inferior living standard, but an indicator of a culturally derrived, different mentality when it comes to certain kinds of suffering and being a burden on society.

Your only answer to that seems to be willful ignorance and seeking the moral high ground. No arguments whatsoever.Typical /her/ poster.

this is very true, basically chinese version of american indians

its abit muddied though, while the KMT did commit atrocities, right now the DPP is more for supporting rival native groups (Hoklo) over the general group of aborgines.

Taiwan has little choices, either get rem embraced by their bigger brother, eternally economically bullied by japan + korea, or get bullied by america

U wot m8

China had 510 million people in 1949.

>s-suicide isnt an indicator their life sucks, i-its a cultural tradition!

what a subhuman you are, kys ken sama

youtube.com/watch?v=fjqd3sIcfrY

>in Japan it's in their values from birth.

I am Japanese but was raised in America from 2 years old. I'm not Japanese culturally in any significant sense.
What the heck are you talking about?

he's the face of /pol/ attempting to hide in Veeky Forums

>a vice tier documentary makes me an expert on Japan

>>s-suicide isnt an indicator their life sucks, i-its a cultural tradition!
And btw your mum's life sucks..literally...when she 's giving head for meth in the toilet. Didn't make her kill herself so far though.

What exactly was the "original" culture of Taiwan?

There wasn't even a polity before the Chinese arrived in the 600's. Aboriginals make up > 1% of the population; and everyone either speaks Mandarin or Hokkien.

you can self deny all you want, but the Japanese never committed suicide during any good situation.

Their entire reconstruction post-WWII has been under the supervision and investment from the US. They were literally a US protectorate, and arguably still are in some ways. I can't fathom how you can argue America DIDN'T have anything to do with their government. Think about this for a second. Do you think Hawaiian culture would be the same today if they developed by themselves?

Japan's entire constitution and government system is based off of the USA and the British Parliamentary system. You have to be a fucking idiot to think the USA doesn't have enormous influence and control over Japan.
We literally controlled their nation officially for 8 years 1945-1952.

>Their entire reconstruction post-WWII has been under the supervision and investment from the US.
How about you provide some specifics? Exactly what was reconstructed under US supervision. What do you mean by US supervision. How did the US invest in Japan?

>They were literally a US protectorate
No, Japan was literally a sovereign nation.

>and arguably still are in some ways
What are some of these ways that make Japan a US protectorate?

>how you can argue America DIDN'T have anything to do with their government
What did America do with Japanese government? Did America force the Japanese to adopt a specific type of government? In what way? Please provide a single specific example.

lol like what...when was 'any good situation' , give me any facts you fucking mongrel... I doubt you don't even have an idea if the suicide rates rose or decreased during the last 40 years, all you have is some vice documentaries to feed your intricate knowledge and some fucked up head canon based on that.

>Japan's entire constitution and government system is based off of the USA and the British Parliamentary system
Most of the world's written constitutions are based on the US constitution, for the obvious reason that the US has the most developed constitutional law in the world. That doesn't mean that Japanese legal system was shaped by the US.
And now you are moving the goalposts to include Britain?

>You have to be a fucking idiot to think the USA doesn't have enormous influence and control over Japan.
Provide a single example of the Japanese governmental structure and legal system being shaped by this influence.

here you lazy fuck
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan

you are the exact example of a fat burger over emphasising on a nations culture, always looking at the culture first and not looking at how the individual was pressured into a suicidal situation due to alot of bad situations, all of which corelate into a country in deep trouble.

Nobody, regardless of culture, just wakes up oneday thinking "I'll kill myself" without a bad reason behind it, those japanese soldiers did'nt kill themselves after a victory they did so after being pummelled into the dirt by US artillery.

>Japan was literally a sovereign nation
What is 1945-1952? Being occupied by another nation for 8 years makes you a sovereign nation? All you're doing is using no true scotsman fallacy and moving goalposts.

>this level of ignorance

That's in no way an answer to my question. In other words, you have no fucking idea what you are talking about.
The article even has a huge fucking paragraph about the cultural implications and how that affects the suicide rate. You are so fucking dumb for posting that to prove your point.

Another proof of your retardedness and repetitivity
>Nobody, regardless of culture, just wakes up oneday thinking "I'll kill myself" without a bad reason behind it

No and nobody ever claimed so. There are unhappy people without hope in ever country though and in Japan they kill themselves whereas dysfunctional retards carry on in Western societies. Btw thanks for automatically assuming I was a burger, but just because I come from a non-anglo country just like yourself, doesn't mean I have to stoop to the same level of broken English as you do.

Still can't provide any specifics. If linking a wikipedia cap is all you can do, then that tells me all I need to know.

you might aswell be a burger, the cultural implications that lead to suicide are not that different, much stems from a fatal failure or significant loss that is near irrecoverable.

The fact they have no hope and kill themselves negates whatever "living standards" they have, literally what is the point if you can't afford it? I'd really only say scandis have it good due to their socialised system, even if it is coming under pressure with recent events.

Simply put, the fact they kill themselves does'nt change anything, it still belies the fact that they are dysfunctional, and live in a society where not enough is being done to reach out to them, or there simply isnt enough resources to do so.

>wikipedia link
>Department of State.gov

You are baiting.