Why do we act like the route to a healthy and functional state is a political one and not a moral one? For example...

What do you mean? I agreed with OP.

>feel
Evangelical detected. Go back and listento shitty christian pop rock.

rekt

Way to catch up to de Tocqueville:

America is great because Americans are good. If Americans cease being good, America will cease being great.

Or words to that effect.

Different feels. Feeling the Holy Spirit in you isn't always fun and games.

Poor argument, I have no doubt that a 99% amish community will have little violence, though a 99% catholic community with a drug problem will be full of violence.

Religion is a poor indicator of morals. It is more a conflux of socioeconomic conditions, culture, education and numerous other things of which religion is but 1.

OP here. Key here is highly principled individuals who practice. It can be any group of individuals we place in there. Christians I believe are the best example, since they are not so attached to earth and its condition. AGAIN im not talking about people who say are moral in name but not in practice, thats why this is hypothetical. The states however embody this. The country could go full blown socialism in one or two terms and there would be no bloodshed, which is reasonable since the collective conscience of society has now reached a line no one wants to cross and will not cross.

youtube.com/watch?v=qEvEVALLjNQ

this is for youOp is not strictly talking about religion but high principled individuals but Christianity takes the cake, you are religious too in the sense you subscribe to something you practice while someone else doesn't

and chrisitians or catholics whatever, never rebelled against the government and over thrown it

give what is to ceaser to ceasr and what is Gods to God

I have also though about this. More and more it seems to me that the quality of the execution is much more important than the quality of any plan (ideologies are a kind of "plan").

Should moral people create a moral political system? Or is a moral political system one that creates moral people?

Hobbes, Locke or Tocqueville?

In my humble opinion, religion is just like everything else in the sense that when it has power it's politicized. Pretty much all religion is always politicized. There is no way around it. If you look at the Byzantine empire, religious disagreement was just as big of an issue politically than it was a theological debate. It's not about the % of people christian or radical. It's about politicians not being dicks.

p.s. also the byzantine empire inherited the mass inequality resulting from Diocletian's tax reforms in the Roman empire, which did not help in pacifying the people either.

Nailed again OP, thanks to Christianity the USA has never had any internal fighting.

were not talking about the power struggle that exists in insitution, we are talking about the moral hierarchy in principled individuals, never kill unless neccesary, be cooperative, be resilent, respect human life to your death etc. this is an internal deliberation, politics doesnt work when society is comprised of different software in the moral sense, different opposing ideas is ok if both people are moral because then if not it can devolve into primitive violence or horrid apathetic immorality of the strategist

>no bloodshed
yes, thats key, he didnt say no fighting. americans will risk disorganization but thats the furthest, they will not lead to bloodshed, and if the majority chose peaceful communism, then the minority would have no choice but to abide the law if they are moral individuals as opposed to those who arent and would incite violence and war. nice try mon petit brainlet

I know he didn't say no fighting, I said the USA has had no fighting or bloodshed in its history, thanks to Christianity.

whenever you have a split of that sort, it's always gonna be "violence against them is justified because they are not us". It's just how humans are, no way around it. No matter what your overarching moral code is, it's not gonna work. Especially if hte church is forced upon the people, so that the vast majority aren't really invested into the religion but are only ceremonial participants.

its hard to deduce sarcasm on this site so i was bein catious

>whenever you have a split of that sort, it's always gonna be "violence against them is justified because they are not us". It's just how humans are, no way around it.
why are you lying, there is a literal infinite list of people who will never devolve their morality and have countless examples in history. this is what morally accounts for, a moral person is aware of people like you who are devious in their plans to promote deceit, you can't trick anyone satan, men will rise higher than you ever were

true, but you can't assemble into one. Every country ever, even the most religious ones (like Russia) had some nasty individuals that used religion directly or indirectly for their own benefit.

im sorry i said satan , it wasn't personal, i was referring to the demonic spirit that lies to all of us. yes that was the past, humanity has progressed much in its journey in reflecting divinity, america is a great example of this, it is comprised of many mismatches and has forged into a whole collective conscience, it was built on the word and now has become flesh, the morality of america and christian founded states is much higher than most and the second they start secularizing the individualistic mentality takes over and then much more is at jeopardy than state, morality itself becomes meaningless, if cannibals hold majority then people become food, individuals become diet

america?
morality?

bro, have u even been here? it's full of hedonistic shits right now

>right now
>implying it was ever any different

im saying at the basic moral level, it is obviously not perfect but a majority, over 90% people respect human life and will perserve it at all costs, you assume moral people are perfect people, lol get used to humanity friend, we are not like God .....yet

...

'It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.'

that was a test

...

Because the state is inherently immoral, you stupid tankie.

>inanimate idea being immoral
i think you mean humans are, and he didnt say left or right you fuckin faggot

No, the existence of the state is immoral.

'Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?'

Did the Holy Spirit use lube? Sounds painful.

You are an idiot, how else do you govern a large body of people in the modern era, and authority and structure isnt evil u cuck

>For example, if you take a state that is 99% practicing devout Christians who are docile (to anything moral), no matter what political system they live in, there will be cooperation and no bloodshed.
Sure because people don't gut each other in christian communities, am I right? lol

ur a nasty fuck u no that

>modern setting you dumbfuck

>authority
The state has none
That is why it is inherently immoral

yes it does you hannibal (lector)

>proto fascism
>antimaterialism
>system doesn't matter
>thinking he can get an ethnostate violence free and keep it without suppression and routine cathartic violence

>For example, if you take a state that is 99% practicing devout Christians who are docile (to anything moral), no matter what political system they live in, there will be cooperation and no bloodshed.

States can't behave in a Christian manner, which means that there would be a moral disaonance between the government and its population, which would result in the government having to suppress his actually Christian population every time a controversy pop up.
This is why nominally Christian populations were more useful in the past than devout ones: they will accept the Christianized narratives of your politics while not being religious enough to be able to contest your points on a theological ground, but in that case you would have no real, stable general morality