Catholic Church and the Left

How did the Catholic Church become so leftist or has it always been leftist? I know many Catholics were involved with labor unions, but how is it that people say the Catholic Church is "redpilled" and "based" when it comes out with statements like this from its leadership? Did it all start with Vatican II?

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breitbart.com/london/2017/07/01/african-cardinal-in-vatican-urges-europe-to-turn-off-the-faucet-of-immigration/
youtube.com/watch?v=p1G6W863ppU
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

A lot of Catholics are messican. The Catholic Church is historically aligned against godless communism (Pic related). On the issue of immigration they want all the Latin Americans they can get.

>Why would the American Catholic Church oppose the arrival of more Catholics from Mexico?
Truly a mystery of our time

I recognize the whole "Mexicans are Catholics" argument, but when I look up Catholic Charities, which is involved with settling refugees, I see that they are equally involved with, just as an example, moving Muslims from Somalia to the United States. How could a "redpilled trad Catholic" defend this?

As far as the Church being aligned against "godless communism" goes, that may be true, but many Catholics were involved with labor unions in the United States and still are.

>why is the church involved in humanitarian events
Wow what a mystery

>How could a "redpilled trad Catholic" defend this?
They can't and just come off as retards.

Was it not inhumane of the parents to break laws entering the United States and leave their children in such an ambiguous legal position? Why should the Catholic Church have to defend these people who broke the law?

More and more that's what I'm beginning to think. I just can't get myself to return to the church of my childhood. Oh well.

>many Catholics were involved with labor unions in the United States and still are.
Hey retard, unionism and communism aren't the same thing, unions were usually the first thing to get culled in any communist society, Pope John Paul II was heavily involved with Solidarity which threw the communists out of Poland

>was it not inhumane...
Perhaps, but that's not relevant to the church's doings here

catholics have this dumb idea called "forgiveness", they literally won't stop going on about it

pure cuckery if you ask me

In what way?

Forgiveness is fine, but why issue political statements condemning the repeal of DACA?

>Was it not inhumane of the parents to break laws entering the United States and leave their children in such an ambiguous legal position? Why should the Catholic Church have to defend these people who broke the law?
Mate, if your definition of "left" is everyone who supports DACA, you need to reconsider shit.

>"do everything you can for others, even your enemies, without a thought for yourself"
>"be a friend to all people regardless of differences because we are the children of god"

>WTF what happened to my redpilled #based catholic church? how come the pope hasn't called for a crusade yet?

all fucking LARPers must fucking hang

>in what way
The children had no real control over their fate. Why wouldn't the church help?

>Why is a minister of the church using his constitutional right to free speech to disagree with public policy?
wtf I hate the first amendment now

>all fucking LARPers must fucking hang
ironic

they are young and surrounded by other young idiots. they know not what they do.

I don't like that he issued a political statement like that as a representative of the Catholic Church, especially since DACA was unconstitutional. Where did I imply that the 1st Amendment should be revoked?

So the Church should break the law and keep the illegal immigrants in the country? Why not help resettle them back where they came from?

>Where did I imply that the 1st Amendment should be revoked?
I never claimed you did, just that is obviously causes you stress when someone uses it to espouse a contrary view to your own

>why not...
Because they'll be more successful in America?
This isn't hard to understand at all

>How did the Catholic Church become so leftist or has it always been leftist?
Jesuits

This does not go against traditional Catholic theology. The Catholic church aims to be universal, for all people. It is not nationalistic. This is not something that divides traditional Catholics and progressive ones. The leaders of the traditional wing of the Catholic Church are mostly black African Cardinals, while the leaders of the progressive wing are mostly Northern European ones.

The difference is that the traditionalist wing is more spiritual and considers that saving souls and fighting sin are important. Helping the poor materialistic is important too, but they consider the core business of the Church to save souls. They tend to prefer a more somber and solemn kind of mass.

If you have a mass and they start playing Imagine (from the Beatles) during the mass, the priest is a liberal. And probably gay.

Any member of the church who plays that song during mass should be excommunicated

Pray continue, because they're often blamed without any sort of explanation.

I understand the notion of the Church being universal, but why should that translate into supporting DACA?

>and they start playing Imagine
This is literally what Catholic mass was like for me as a child and teenager. Nearly all my peers and their parents were pro-gay marriage, pro-choice, pro-open borders, etc. The only conservative Catholics I ever see are on Veeky Forums or in high brow political publications such as the New Criterion or the National Review. The writers in these journals and magazines always talk about the subversion of the Church—so how the hell did this happen if it is indeed true?

>I understand the notion of the Church being universal, but why should that translate into supporting DACA?

I think that DACA is wrong due to the way it was done. But being pro-immigration is consistent with traditional Catholicism.

>This is literally what Catholic mass was like for me as a child and teenager. Nearly all my peers and their parents were pro-gay marriage, pro-choice, pro-open borders, etc. The only conservative Catholics I ever see are on Veeky Forums or in high brow political publications such as the New Criterion or the National Review. The writers in these journals and magazines always talk about the subversion of the Church—so how the hell did this happen if it is indeed true?

Are you Belgian or German?
Traditionalist Churches are increasing in number and they have younger members than Progressive ones.

>whines about leftists in catholic church
>no mention of liberation theology

I have no problem with immigration if it is points-based or restricted to certain countries. But unskilled labor from Latin Americans is certainly something we don't need; it only degrades life for the poor who are already here. I don't see why the Catholic Church should be against the laws of a country when we're merely enforcing the constitution. Instead of condemning, why don't they help these migrants get the ball-rolling again in their own country?

As for my origins, I'm an American descended from one side that was Catholic for aeons in Northern Europe and the other side is descended from New England Puritans. I've been to the nearest traditionalist church and it's like going to little Manila or Tijuana.

Tell me more. If you actually read the OP, you'd see there were questions and no whining. I don't know much about liberation theology and what that entails other than I often see it cited as a boogeyman for the Church's leftism.

>get the ball rolling...
That's not mutually exclusive with helping the immigrants in America. The church has extensive charity operations in Latin America alresdy

I'm sure they do have charities in Latin America already; that doesn't answer my question. Why don't they help these migrants after they return to their home country rather than condemn the US government for enforcing the constitution?

>How did the Catholic Church become so leftist
I didn't. Stop reading /pol/ interpretations of events and calling everything you don't like leftism.

Because it's easier for them to be successful in America?
Like I already said, it's not hard to understand

>The Catholic church aims to be universal, for all people.

>It's easier for them to be successful in America at the cost of breaking American laws.

ftfy

>I don't like that he issued a political statement like that as a representative of the Catholic Church, especially since DACA was unconstitutional.
Does the Papacy normally check in with you when it makes a decision?

Ok?
That's not really relevant

The Catholic Church in my country is composed of right-wing clergymen. You can't pretend like the Catholic clergy is the same in every country, they're drawn from the local population, usually, and are not immune to local political trends.

And your country is?

Croatia

There you have it, the conservative Catholicism I see slavs on /pol/ and /int/ always post about. Well, that's definitely not what I see on the ground here in the US.

Well, here in commiefornia, unsurprisingly, they are commiefied (see OP's pic).

As a Catholic I totally oppose immigration to the West. I'm non-White myself and as a child was brought to the US, where I became a citizen. The people who want immigration are totally misguided, they think they're being Christlike, but in reality it's nothing more than progressive morality in Christian guise. We're told to take up our crosses, and put God above all, not run away from our suffering to lands that have become veritable Sodoms and Babylons. We should rather die in body, for our faith, than in soul, in some sickly and godless hellhole. In my homeland they're persecuting my people, but I returned, and even brought my ex-Muslim friend to the Church. I believe this is something all Christians should understand, but unfortunately Westerners are so diseased they don't know which way is up and which way is down.

At least people like him speak the truth:
breitbart.com/london/2017/07/01/african-cardinal-in-vatican-urges-europe-to-turn-off-the-faucet-of-immigration/

Where are you from?

It is when it makes the lives of Americans more difficult.

>We need to make the lives of poor white people more difficult so the lives of poor brown people will be easier!
>Truly this is what Jesus wanted!:D

India

The impact DACA will have on American lives is probably marginal compared the the impact it will have on the immigrants
And you're acting like those are mutually exclusive options, when the church also has charities for poor people of all races in America

Are you Dinesh D'Souza, by any chance?

...you're in the wrong place. I think you're looking for >>/y/

Oh man, I forgot about that guy.

>probably
Once again, why is the Church working to make life more difficult for poor people?
>b-but muh poor brown people are suffering more!
I thought the Church's primary duty was to save souls, not to immanentize the eschaton?
>pornography on tap and children sexualized on television
> i don't care! *shrugs*
>poor white people complain that their interests are being sacrificed so that poor brown people can avoid taking responsibility for their own lives
>it's beatdown time! *balls fists*

>Once again, why is the Church working to make life more difficult for poor people
It isn't, the church has charities all over the world that help all poor people
It's not like they're only supporting DACA while ignoring everything else

So if the church has charities all over the world why support DACA?
How does supporting DACA save souls?

It helps vulnerable children

These children have parents; they are not vulnerable.

they want to help people, and helping people is inherently leftist

Having parents doesn't make you not vulnerable

Lel stop, your logical fallicies they hurt.
If you want to talk politics go to

Do you live in India now?

that makes since we know how fond the church is of vulnerable children

Meme

back to
you disgusting homophobe

I was there for some years and came back to the US a few months ago, will go back again

How does placing vulnerable children in a society that encourages hedonism, teaches them that sodomy is perfectly natural, and that abortion is the right of all women, save their soul?

It's a form of material charity. Does giving to the poor help their souls at all?

>Why should the Catholic Church have to defend these people who broke the law?


because the Catholic church considers its doctrines to be more authoritative than national laws.

As far as the Church is concerned they are ordered by God to help the downtrodden and poor regardless of other circumstances.

>Does giving to the poor help their souls at all?
No, which is why the Church typically ties it's charity work into proselytizing and missionary work.

The fact that the Church is prioritizing "material charity" over saving souls shows the Church has list it's way. There is literally no reason for DACA to register on the Church's radar when gay marriage is being increasing pushed as the norm.

You say that like those are mutually exclusive. The church certainly doesn't lack the resources to pursue both goals

The bodies of fellow human beings must be treated with greater care than our own. Christian love teaches us to give our brethren not only spiritual gifts, but material gifts as well. Even our last shirt, our last piece of bread must be given to them. Personal almsgiving and the most wide-ranging social work are equally justifiable and necessary. The way to God lies through love of other people and there is no other way. At the Last Judgment I shall not be asked if I was successful in my ascetic exercises or how many prostrations I made in the course of my prayers. I shall be asked, did I feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick and the prisoners: that is all I shall be asked.

— St. Maria Skobtsova of Paris

Does it?
I can't help but notice that it seems to be losing the war against homosexual normalization.

The Christian thing for you to do is indeed to remain and suffer in your countries and help your neighbors, and the Christian thing for us to do is to welcome and care for all the non-Christians who come to our countries, or indeed to go to your countries to help those who could not leave, sharing their suffering.

It's not currently a high profile issue, but back when it was there was a greater interest. I can recall several sermons about gay marriage a few years ago

The Catholic Church has only ever been concerned with power, they will, as it suits them promote modern ideas liberalism, of open borders & globalism right now because it promises a much more Catholic United States.
While Latin Americas fertility rate has plummeted in recent years to civilized levels it's now home to about half of their flock, thus an Argie pope and denunciations of the western nation-state.
If the USA was a catholic country and had a porous border with a pullulating Orthodox one they'd be promoting Ustaše orders to police it.
They know they won't regain there choke-hold over Europe so will happily see it destroyed.
They are valueless reptiles, Roman emperors in drag, without any of the glory and even more of the
The shame of all Europe, guilty of all that Muslims and Jews are accused of a thousand times over.
They're not "redpilled", they know nothing of the truth and proudly never espouse it. Popes aren't even in the Bible, they betray even their renditions of the truth.

>indeed to go to your countries to help those who could not leave, sharing their suffering.
Sounds like colonialism tee bee aytch

Truth is not a thought, not a word, not a relationship between things, not a law. Truth is a Person. It is a Being which exceeds all beings and gives life to all. If you seek truth with love and for the sake of love, she will reveal the light of His face to you inasmuch as you are able to bear it without being burned.
(St. Nicholas of Serbia, Thoughts on Good and Evil)

faggotry

That's actually a good point. Our society is not doing very well right now. And saving souls is more important that the material, but a part of the Church seems to disagree... The Knights of Malta were distributing condoms.

What's wrong with labor unions?

...

Some ask whether, in case of a shipwreck, a wise man ought to take away a plank from an ignorant sailor. Although it seems better for the common good that a wise man rather than a fool should escape from shipwreck, yet I do not think that a Christian, a just and a wise man, ought to save his own life by the death of another; just as when he meets with an armed robber he cannot return his blows, lest in defending his life he should stain his love toward his neighbor. The verdict on this is plain and clear in the books of the Gospel. ‘Put up thy sword, for every one that taketh the sword shall perish with the sword’ (Mt 26,52). What robber is more hateful than the persecutor who came to kill Christ? But Christ would not be defended from the wounds of the persecutor, for He willed to heal all by His wounds.

— St Ambrose of Milan

Remembrance of wrongs is the consummation of anger, the keeper of sin, hatred of righteousness, ruin of virtues, poison of the soul, worm of the mind, shame of prayer… You will know that you have completely freed yourself of this rot, not when you pray for he person who has offended you, not when you exchange presents with him, not when you invite him to your table, but only when, on hearing that he has fallen into bodily or spiritual misfortune, you suffer and weep for him as for yourself.

— St. John Climacus

I have heard that there were two old men who dwelt together for many years, and who never quarreled, and that one said to the other, “let us also pick a quarrel with each other, even as other men do.” Then his companion answered and said unto him, “I know not how a quarrel cometh,” and the other old man answered and said unto him, “Behold, I will set a brick in the midst, and will say, ‘This is mine,’ and do thou say, ‘It is not thine, but mine’; and from this quarrelling will ensue.” And they placed a brick in the midst, and one of then said, “This is mine,” and his companion answered and said after him, “This is not so, for it is mine”; and straightaway the other replied and said unto him, “If this be so, and the brick be thine, take it and go.” Thus they were not able to make a quarrel.

— Sayings of the Desert Fathers

What is a merciful heart? It is a heart on fire for the whole of creation, for humanity, for the birds, for the animals, for demons, and for all that exists. By the recollection of them the eyes of a merciful person pour forth tears in abundance. By the strong and vehement mercy that grips such a person’s heart, and by such great compassion, the heart is humbled and one cannot bear to hear or to see any injury or slight sorrow in any in creation. For this reason, such a person offers up tearful prayer continually even for irrational beasts, for the enemies of the truth, and for those who harm her or him, that they be protected and receive mercy. And in like manner such a person prays for the family of reptiles because of the great compassion that burns without measure in a heart that is in the likeness of God.

— St. Isaac the Syrian

This saying of Cicero is true: ‘But they who say that regard is to be had to citizens, but that it is not to be had to foreigners, these destroy the common society of the human race.’

— Lactantius

You cannot be too gentle, too kind. Shun even to appear harsh in your treatment of each other. Joy, radiant joy, streams from the face of him who gives and kindles joy in the heart of him who receives. All condemnation is from the devil. Never condemn each other. We condemn others only because we shun knowing ourselves. When we gaze at our own failings, we see such a swamp that nothing in another can equal it. That is why we turn away, and make much of the faults of others. Instead of condemning others, strive to reach inner peace. Keep silent, refrain from judgment. This will raise you above the deadly arrows of slander, insult and outrage and will shield your glowing hearts against all evil.

— St Seraphim of Sarov

>It's not currently a high profile issue
But DACA and other crises of national sovereignty vs. migratory waves are, which is my entire point.

If the church is prioritizing the physical comfort of the poor of the world over their spiritual salvation (which is essentially what Church is doing when it encourages the poor to move to metaphorical Babylon to have a better life) there is a problem.

Remember that whole "you will always have the poor but you will not always have me" thing? It's literally telling you there's no point in easing the comfort of the poor if they don't have Christ. If God isn't being propitiated there's no fucking point in your actions and you're just appeasing your own vanity.

Most of these poor people are already catholic

and how many will stay Catholic when they are sent to Babylon to be taught that gender is a spectrum?

dunno did you manage it?

The vast majority

I'm not a Catholic, I'm just someone raised as an atheist that's asking questions. My parents used to be Catholics though, so I guess that's an answer in itself.

>t. Optimist
All the Hispanic children of immigrants I know are typical secular humanist social justice freaks just like everyone else.

If the only thing keeping Hispanics "Catholic" was social pressure and their faith melted away in Babylon, then they were already atheists in all but name. It's perhaps for the best that the scales fell from their eyes so they won't be too confused when they wake up in Hell.

>The impact DACA will have on American lives is probably marginal compared the the impact it will have on the immigrants
>This will be a limited amnesty, it won't affect most Americans at all, and it'll be the last time we do it
t. Ronald Reagan

That's not very Christian of you m8, everyone knows that the natural state of Man left to his own devices is sin.

Leftism is born from Catholicism. Both ideologies come directly from the mouth of Satan, and are intended to degenerate Christian society so that its people turn away from God.

>satan

youtube.com/watch?v=p1G6W863ppU

>I don't understand why the questions I'm asking are so dumb
Atleast attempt to educate yourself oh child of logic

>Supporting DACA is Communism
Jesus Christ...

What would having a pope from the most secular Catholic nation in the Americas have to do with attracting Mexicans? Mexicans don't like Argentines at all.

Just because the Pope is liberal on some issues doesn't make this some grand conspiracy. When he was chosen, he was a "compromise" choice, as he was very conservative on a number of issues. (Abortion, gay marriage), though he has flip-flopped on these since then.

>Nazism was created to make the world Roman Catholic
woaaaaah

>EDUCATE YOURSELF!
Hark, the mating call of the frustrated leftist confused by the idea of someone who doesn't see the world as he does!

Yes, because Christianity has always been preoccupied with the law, and have always been against those who oppose it, that's why when early christians were fed to the lions they threw their hands up and said "Welp, that's that then!" and converted on the spot.

>breaking american laws
Advocating for something unconstitutional is not illegal you dumb fuck, if anything, attempting to imply that the priest has broken American laws in a transparent attempt to give a penatly for using first ammendment rights in a way you don't like would be a gross violation of american law, you are allowed to advocate explicitly unconstitutional laws, and you can't be arrested for advocating (or even fucking passing) unconstitutional laws.

Nothing can redeem the Catholic church for it's repellant treatment of those who have no truck with their pagan traditions or the sexual abuse of the innocent, and neither should there be.

>islam is a daughter of rome
>communism is a daughter of rome
Chick Tracts are so fucking dumb

The Catholic Church is no longer Christian. You cannot support homosexuals, evolution, etc and still call yourself Christian. It's just flat out denial.