Protoindoeuropean my ass

True, southern Russia is a strong contender.

how about there being migrations out of ukraine to europe and central asia discovered at the exact right time?

or words for fauna and flora that are represented in all branches matching those found in ukraine?

...Exact time?

> A single semi-literate post on a Japanese anime imageboard
versus
> Decades of evidence of comparative philology and linguistics

Hmm, yes. I'll take the latter, thanks.

Can somebody tell with a yes or no answer if Sardinians, specifically nuragics, were indo-europeans or not Veeky Forums? Why is this issues so confusing?

Probably. They were pretty civilized.

a: how the fuck could italians not have a word for land at any point in history
b: why would racists make up a lineage of language and ethnicity that connects aryans to fucking pajeets

If it is bullshit then a lot of language families might be bull shit too like sino tibetean or altaic. I'm not an expert but people have built careers upon this so its unlikely that it is bullshit.

The features of sinitic languages are too fucking weird for them to be unrelated

They only left behind a few undeciphered documents like this and we don't even know if it's writing or proto-writing like the Vinca's, this was written with cypriot like characters on a Nuragic bronze pin but it's never been deciphered

No, Nuragic people, the Iliens were neolithic farmers with a language similar to basque, if you compare the Nuragic DNA and that of the people of Barbagia you have near 100% corrispondence
The Balares were Indoeuropeans though and they lived in Sardinia too

The Balares were Nuragic too, Nuraghi were on the whole island, even in some islands surrouding it

That feel when Old Europe had complicated developing civilizations that were about to form writing, sanitation, agriculture and more.

Instead they were raided and destroyed by horseriders and now we have to look at the Near East as the sole "ancients".

Well, indoeuropeans had thousands of years more to develop than native europeans.

>That feel when Old Europe had complicated developing civilizations that were about to form writing, sanitation, agriculture and more.

Could you provide a good book on this topic?

Not him but I'd say Cambridge prehistory of the bronze age and iron age Mediterranean, also the Etruscan world and all the publications of Fulvia lo Schiavo that came out in the last 5 years

>European "civilizations" don't get owned by IE steppe lords
>Europe has a weak military tradition and fails against Persians, Phoenicians, Huns, Mongols

Many thanks

Not him but the Etruscans, Nuragics and Iberians all were as war like as their other contemporaries, the people who got owned were the neolithic farmers of central Europe who had a really low population density and barely any copper tools, and one of the reason for their death was the plague brought by indoeuropeans

Barbagians were Nuragic remnants after IE people colonized the coastline, in the same way that Basques are Aquitanian remnants after all the rest started speaking IE languages.

They adapted to changing conditions.

All Sardinians are almost identical to the Nuragics genetically speaking, not just Barbagians

>No, Nuragic people, the Iliens were neolithic farmers with a language similar to basque

When will this meme end? There's no evidence to suggest early farming communities spoke something Basque alike.

The Iliens started to live in Barbagia during the conquest of Carthage to be exact, later during the reign of Rome they spent their time rebelling
They are probably the people that rebelled more times against the romans
Regarding the probably indo-europeans balares, a common theory is that they were originally Iberians that settled on the Island because of Carthage

Some of the Carthaginian mercenaries, either Libyans or Iberians, quarrelled about the booty, mutinied in a passion, and added to the number of the highland settlers. Their name in the Cyrnian (Corsican) language is Balari, which is the Cyrnian word for fugitives.
—Pausanias, Description of Greece, 10.17

Regarding the relationship between Balares and Ilienses we know from Livy that they managed to defeat a weakened roman army during one of their rebellions
The Balares are considered auxiliares of the Ilienses by Livy, mind you

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Sardinian_language

>There is toponymic evidence suggesting that the Paleo-Sardinian language may have had connection to the reconstructed Proto-Basque and to the pre-Indo-European Iberian language of Spain.

Source: (Paleosardo: The Linguistic Roots of Neolithic Sardinian)

Yes, but there were ancient sources, the same that said Ilienses were refugees from Troy and/or Greeks

>may have had

That's hardly a solid proof to parrot it around as 100% true everywhere. It's just a hypothesis.

Iberians were not Indoeuropeans, they were pre IEs like the Nuragics, they also traded directly with the Nuragics since before the Phoenicians came

The wording of the Wikipedia article is not a fucking argument.

One theory out of many with hardly any evidence is not an argument either just because you like it so much.

You are right, it was an huge error from my part Balares came from a proto-iberian culture according to wikipedia

Yes, but that was before the Nuragic period, there was a bell beaker movement probably from Iberia towards Sardinia, later there is evidence of direct trade between Nuragics and Iberians, but it's mostly Sardinians going westwards (probably to acquire tin) than the opposite

>it's bullshit made by racists
kys

The other hypothesis we have are on from the linguist Pittau, that claims that the sardian and the etruscan were closely linked, he also claims the Nuragic as being Lydian in origin

The other one is more interesting claiming sardian to be Illyrian in origins and shows some similiraties between sardinian and albanian

Pittau is crazy, nor Etruscan nor proto Sardinian have anything to do with Lydian, which was an indoeuropean language, it was based on the hypothesis that Sherden originated from Anatolia and then migrated to Sardinia but now that theory is rejected by most scholars

Fact is there's no direct evidence of languages spoken in Neolithic Europe so it's a speculation. We don't know shit what language early farming communities spoke, give it a rest. It wasn't long ago when retards thought Uralic is indigenous to Europe and most ancient language when in reality it arrived around 1000BC based on fuck knows what.

Take Tyrsenian languages like Etruscan they have fuck all do to with Basque but they're clearly not of IE origin, so who were they? Fact is we don't know, but to assume everyone in prie IE spoke something like Basque is pure retardation not to forget it doesn't take a big population to make population shift to different language, take Turks and Anatolia or Hungarians, some asiatic mongols showed up and vanished a few centuries later without leaving any genetic input, but whole population now speak their language. The only thing that is certain that we don't know when and from where proto-Basque speakers showed up, everything else is based on speculation.

Yes, and that leaves us with the proto-indoeuropean hypothesis and the illyrian one
Don't you think that since sardinian have close to none indo-european admixture in their DNA a relationship with the illyrians seems out of place?

That leaves us with the proto-indoeuropean hypothesis, the only things that bugs me out of this one though is the fact that even the sardinian spoken in barbagia is heavily latinized even though according to Byzantium scholars Barbagia was still a world separated from the rest of the island, making this latinization seems less plausible

Iberian languages(not Basque) are very likely to be of Cardial Pottery origin though.

Your right, this period of history is mostly speculation, but at least here we are discussing different hypothesis about a bronze age civilization instead of talking about the usual:
>romans were nordic gods
>turks are asians overlords
>the egyptian khangz were black or british

There is some slight relationship with Basque, some of the proto Sardinian words are in common with Basque, but only 10% of them

What the fuck are you even saying ?

>bullshit made by racists.

Here you go >>/r/eddit