From your perspective, 'muricans, which one is the more guilty for the death of your forefathers?

from your perspective, 'muricans, which one is the more guilty for the death of your forefathers?

Fuck LBJ he can suck a big fat dick

LBJ did literally everything wrong.

op here
Kennedy could have stopped the escalation but he didn't for the sake of being re-elected right?

Harry Truman in the 40's

Yes, he didn't draw down troops because he wanted to maximize his chance of getting re-elected because of the domino theory and the apprehension against communism.

IIRC though, in Fog of War, McNamara alluded to JFK being far more hesitant than LBJ in terms of long term commitment. If Kennedy had lived, he would have probably given up on the war by 1965. There would be no expanded draft, 500,000 boots on the ground, no rolling thunder, etc. Rather, if JFK had lived, they would have begun to bail on South Vietnam after Diem got iced. Because that's really when everything began to go to shit. They would probably spend much of 1964 trying to make a deal with Ho and Le Duan. They would have to concede a lot, but since this is very early in the true conflict, they might just get away with a divided Vietnam. They would probably portray it as a victory against Communism, but the South Vietnamese government would have collapsed within a decade anyway.

Also, the French did more damage than any American president. They were the ones who fucked everything up. The biggest fault of the US was not paying attention to history and not cutting a deal with Ho in the 50's. That's what set everything into motion.

Kennedy is overrated

LBJ was worst

Nixon was based

Ford was a good guy

LBJ

>Kennedy
Commie puppet
>LBJ
Retarded commie puppet
>Nixon
GOAT president, single handedly won the cold war and saved the union
>Ford
Inoffensive Nixon puppet

thx. it put some light on the matter

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LBJ. Kennedy dindu nuffins wrong, and Ford literally dindu nuffins whatsoever.

LBJ was the beginning of the end of the American identity and our eventual decline into a hispanic socialist shithole.

The correct answer is Wilson's Internationalism.

>the French did more damage than any American president

I wouldn't say that.
Was Ngô Đình Diệm, whom his era lasted from 1955 to 1963, not seated by the americans and backed up by americans, namely the CIA. Because that's really when everything began to go to shit with monks burning themselves and resentment over his power growing bigger in the country?

>Monks burned themselves in the North you retard
>first monk to burn himself did it in Saigon
>Saigon
>North
you are the true retard here. Open a fucking map

Here's the correct answer and nobody notices it.

Ho Chi Minh was a huge Burgerboo, the Vietnamese declaration of independence from France is literally the US Declaration of Independence with the names switched out.

After the Japanese retreat, he sent Truman multiple letters requesting the US back Vietnamese independence, but the US instead backed France instead.

If the US was less autistic about opposing "Communist-in-name-only" groups right after WW2, and stood up more to France and Britain, we'd be much better off today.

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>civ4 I don't get it?

Why the kiln?

>We should have supported socialist causes instead of our allies

Leave the dakimakuras out of this

Ho Chi Minh literally just wanted Vietnam to be free and independent. He would have taken any help he got, but the only help he got was the reds.

what's wrong with costco?

Vietnam (and frankly most of the ex-colonies) would not be socialist or have communist rebels in the first place if the US pressured Britain and France to not treat their colonies so shittily and defuse the socialist time-bomb before the Soviets get a chance to light it.

We were fighting communism with one hand and help creating it with the other, utterly counter-productive.

it's better than propping up a """"""democratic"""""" authoritarian catholic regime that alienated a large percentage of it's own population and had it's leader assassinated. Colonialism was dead and countries like France and Britain trying to hold on to their colonies and territories ended up fucking things up in the long run. Even today, the middle east is still a shit hole.

The domino theory is a meme, it was debunked long ago. The US picked the wrong side in the conflict, Ho literally tried for decades to free Vietnam. He even tried to send a letter to Woodrow Wilson in 1919. If the US sided with Ho early on, Le Duan would have never had his power creep, millions of Vietnamese would be alive, 60,000 Americans would still be alive, the hippie/anti-war movement would have never gained steam, and there wouldn't be 100 million tons of unexploded ordnance still in the jungles of the Indo-chinese counties. The US could have also swooped in and undercut China and the USSR and establish a valuable ally in the region. yes, they may be """"""""socialist"""""""" but it still would have given the US some leverage during the cold war.

It means you're poor. Leftists hate poor people, especially if they're white.

Honestly this
If we hadn't enabled Briatain's spergout over Iran wanting their oil companies to fuck off, we wouldn't have overthrown them to install the Shah, which would've kept the Islamic revolution from happening and Iran being assmad about us in the present day.
Truman had the right idea in telling Britain and France to fuck off over the Suez, we should've done things like that more.

Ho Chi Minh literally thought the best option for Vietnam was to be a US protectorate.
Socialist or not, what matters is the Soviets and China lose one more puppet.

This.

> If we hadn't enabled Briatain's spergout over Iran wanting their oil companies to fuck off, we wouldn't have overthrown them to install the Shah, which would've kept the Islamic revolution from happening and Iran being assmad about us in the present day.

We are partly responsible for that thou. In 1951, ARAMCO (Arabian-American Company) signed a 50/50 profit sharing deal with Saudi Arabia while APOC (Anglo-Persian Oil Company) only had a 85/15% profit sharing deal with Iran.

Mossadegh literally took the ARAMCO contract to APOC, and the Brits threw a hissy fit.

My household makes $250k a year and we still go to Costco regularly. It's economical, and they carry some really good stuff.

However you do see a number of trashy people at costco, not as much as Wal-Mart, but it's there. Frankly that starter pack should have replaced Costco with Wal-Mart.

Nixon ruined the US economy.

And technically he also contributed most to American death by conspiring to prolong the cease fire with Vietnam to win his election.

Just because we made more fair deals than Britain doesn't mean we had to help them overthrow the countries that made a stink about it.
We could've just not gotten involved.

Oh no, I don't support or justify US involvement in Iran in the slightest, but rather the irony that cutting a fair deal with Saudi Arabia caused trouble in Iran.

All Britain had to do was agree to the deal, and we could have stopped a large part of the radicalization of the middle east.

Ford got sandwiched between such terrible presidents that he seems like a cool guy

this. Leftists want to kill all white people with healthcare.

As a weeb and long-time Civ fan I take offense to being compared to such garbage.

LBJ by far. Continued escalation into Vietnam seemingly to avoid political embarrassment for backing out without having gained anything.

Daily reminder that Wilson was an elitist, racist cunt.

Every president following Truman was left cleaning up Truman's mess.

>costco
You'd think they'd hate it considering its ceo is such a big lefty.

>kennedy
overrated
>LBJ
Tragic
>Nixon
also Tragic
>Ford
Boring, but funny in a clumsy sitcom-dad kind of way.

because that embarrassment would've opened him up to accusations of being "soft on communism" and effectively destroyed his legacies (the space program, the civil rights act, and the great society)

If FDR survived to, say, the end of his third term, and Ho Chi sent his pleas to him, do you believe Roosevelt would stick to his principals of dismantling the colonial empires and tell France to fuck off?

You're poor according to the right.

There are no rich class, stop being a liberal delusional fag.

500K-10M = middle class.
500K-100K = poor
100K-0 = welfare queen

>JFK
Probably could've stopped Vietnam but whatever he got domed anyways
>LBJ
Just kinda sad, could've been one of the good presidents but just kept fucking up
>Nixon
Reap what you sow
>Ford
Whatever