Had the whites won the civil war, would Hitler still have invaded Russia?

>The decisions made by Catherine and Panin during the Revolution to continue trade with the colonies, remain officially neutral, refuse Britain’s requests for military assistance, and insist on peace talks that linked a resolution of the American Revolution with the settlement of separate European conflicts indirectly helped the Americans win the Revolution and gain their freedom.

>During the American Civil War, Russian-American relations were very generally cooperative. Alone among European powers, Russia offered oratorical support for the Union, largely due to the view that the U.S. served as a counterbalance to the British Empire.

>During the winter of 1861–1862, the Imperial Russian Navy sent two fleets to American waters to avoid their getting trapped if a war broke out with Britain and France. Many Americans at the time viewed this as an intervention on behalf of the Union, though historians deny this.
The Alexander Nevsky and the other vessels of the Atlantic squadron stayed in American waters for seven months (September 1863 to June 1864).

>During the war, the American Expeditionary Forces were just starting to see battle when the October Revolution removed Russia from the war. Even before Germany surrendered, the US participated in Allied intervention in the Russian Civil War with the Polar Bear Expedition and the American Expeditionary Force Siberia.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Empire–United_States_relations

Hitler hated the USSR because it was communist and ran by Jews. The tsar would be a natural ally of Hitler as he was Europe's most anti-semitic ruler and used as a go-to Jew killer boogeyman in Jew propaganda before Hitler came to power.
Also without Russia going red, Hitler would never come to power in Germany to begin with you fucking retard.

>Russia would control much of Turkey, all of eastern Europe and the Balkans.
How so? If the war ended after 1920, definitely not. Eastern Europe was firmly independent by that point. Why would they attack Turkey and the Balkans? That would overextend them, Russia was too unstable at the time.

>Drang Nach Osten
A phrase invented by a Pollack nationalist and much like "blitzkrieg" it was never actually used by Germans.
And the Romanovs werr ethnically Germanic and admired by Hitler. Stop talking out of your ass faggot.

>a phrase invented by a Pollack
A policy invented by Germans.

It was never a policy, Jacek, more like post-hoc propaganda trying to lump all conflicts between Germans and Eastern Europeans, from Teutonic Knights to WW1 as some grand plan of racial conquest that never really existed. It's just a product of the eternal Polish victim complex and a further proof that Polish nationalism ended up being even more cancerous than panslavism.

The jews were not neccessary for Hitler's rise to power, and even without the Soviet Union there is no reason Germany wouldn't have still had strong communist support, like the fact they had large socialist movements and leftist politicians even before WW1.
And you're forgetting one of the biggest ideological reasons for Operation Barbarossa was Lebrensraum. The communists didn't magically will Russia and East Europe into existence.

What happened in the USSR is absolutely central to Hitler's ideas, Hitler literally wouldn't be Hitler without it. Try reading Mein Kampf at some point.
>And you're forgetting one of the biggest ideological reasons for Operation Barbarossa was Lebrensraum.
Again, read Mein Kampf. Hitler thought Russia should be conquered as living space for Germans precisely because Jew communists fucked it up and they're unworthy to hold such great land.

He regarded the slavs as subhuman, and the presence of the jewish minority doesn't change that. Even if there were no jews or communists there's no reason to say that he would've seen them as honourary aryans. He still 'needed' his living space.
It might just be me but I believe that Hitler still would've called for Lebrensraum to the east.

>slavs
Once more: RUSSIAN ROYALTY WAS ETHNICALLY GERMAN. NOT SLAVIC.

Sorry I forgot the entire population of Russia was Tsar Nicholas II

And for the millionth time I tell you to read Mein Kampf instead of making a retard out of yourself in front of everyone. You're literally just assuming what Hitler thought based on your feelings, while I'm telling you what Hitler actually thought.

First of all mate this isn't personal, don't get so emotional over an argument with a random person on an anonymous image forum.
And again I've suggested that Hitler would've still despised the slavs, even if they weren't controlled by the commies or had a jewish minority, or at least just found it necessary to carry out Lebrensraum anyway.
I'd like an answer that isn't "ha ha ur dumb"

Not to mention that the political line pursued by Comintern in the years precluding the Nazis accession to power stymied collaboration between the German Communist Party and other political parties that could have potentially emerged as a formidable anti-fascist bloc.

*preceding

>Hitler was of the opinion Germans should rule the Slavs
>regarding Russia, he thought it's a state where Germans rule the Slavs
>HURRR HE WOULD INVADE RUSSIA BECAUSE HE THOUGHT SLAVS ARE INFERIOR!
Slavs being inferior or not has literally nothing to do with him invading Russia. What he wanted to accomplish by invading Russia literally already was accomplished by the Romanovs.

Having the Romanovs doesn't help him that much, it doesn't give Germany control of Eastern Europe, Lebrensraum doesn't just mean we need a German aristocracy, it means that the land itself should be colonised by German people, and slavs need to be exterminated or resettled elsewhere. And I'd hardly call the Russian aristocracy pro-German when it comes to national interest.
>slavs being inferior has nothing do with the invasion
Yes it does because it was one of the reasons the nazis used to justify the invasion and Lebrensraum.

And where is Romanovs now?

>being this obtuse and unaware of the context of the discussion

>it means that the land itself should be colonised by German people
Which is exactly what was happening in Russia ever since Catherine the Great. Volyn Germans, Volga Germans, Bessarabian Germans, Crimean Germans, etc. Baltic German aristocracy even had complete self-rule in Latvia and Estonia under Russian emperors. All of this didn't change until after the communist revolution.
>slavs need to be exterminated
>muh Gememe Ost bullshit

Citation needed.

>Lebrensraum
It's Lebensraum.

Probably not. If anything I’d think he would hold a higher opinion of Russia and its people had they managed to repel the “Jewish Bolsheviks”.

Literally look up the genealogy of the Romanov dynasty since Catherine II, even Wikipedia would be sufficient. I'm not going to spoonfeed you about the sky being blue.

So you're saying that Hitler's Lebensraum didn't involve killing or resettling the slavs to allow German colonisation?
And if you think Lebensraum just meant having a few pockets of eastern europe with autonomous germans then you are mistaken.

And Hitler didn't give a shit if German minorities were given autonomy, he wanted them inside German borders. (See: 1936-1939)
my bad

>So you're saying that Hitler's Lebensraum didn't involve killing or resettling the slavs to allow German colonisation?
Actually yeah that's pretty much what I'm saying. Hitler pjust says that local Slavic peasantry should be just subservient to their new German settler masters, not that they should be exterminated.

>that post
>that postscript

lol

Mmm, please baby, I like being spooned. I was under the impression that the Romanovs were completely irrelevant to any Nazi policy.

But that's wrong
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum#Ideology_of_Adolf_Hitler
britannica.com/place/Germany/The-Third-Reich-1933-45#ref297668
historytoday.com/martyn-housden/lebensraum-policy-or-rhetoric

>I like being spooned
Don't care faggot. Not doing your homework for you.
> I was under the impression that the Romanovs were completely irrelevant to any Nazi policy.
Read Mein Kampf. Then read what this thread is about. I'm sure you can make the connection. Unless you think the Whites wouldn't restore the Tsar and just have a Kerensky tier social cuckocrat rule, which isn't likely considering who the main White leaders were.

READ
MEIN
KAMPF

>Germans should rule the Slavs

That's an odd way of saying 'exterminate most, enslave a bunch, and push the remaining ones into Siberia to forever be training targets by future German military leaders'.

Sorry pal but Mein Kampf and especially the unpublished Zweites Buch pretty much say or imply that colonisation through replacing the native population, not just exploiting the natives and leaving them there, is the way to go.

I'm shocked you didn't follow this by some wikipedia article like the idiot you are.

>Mein Kampf
It doesn't.
>unpublished Zweites Buch
Don't bother with doctored documents.

>n-no it doesn't
>zweites buch is a made-up book
lmao

Not a made up book, it was real. But it wasn't published during Hitler's time and was likely altered after the war, what we now know as Zweites Buch probably isn't the actual book Hitler has written. Same goes for Hitler's final testament. Only bother with sources that are actually verified.

Zweites buch was written in 1938.
And i'm going to need a source on Zweites Buch being significantly altered.
And here's a source that's verified: Mein Kampf. Which does not say that "the slavs are an alright bunch when you think about it"

Nobody who's not a retard thinks the second book is real.

And it's completely flat out obvious that Bormann wrote Hitler's final testament.

Who said anything about racial conquest? It was normal conquest. Germany clearly saw Eastern Europe as their sphere of influence. What next? Germanization was also made up by Pollack nationalists?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitteleuropa
This phrase wasn't invented by some Pollack.

angelfire.com/folk/bigbaldbob88/MeinKampf.pdf
page 475

And so we National Socialists consciously draw a line beneath the foreign policy tendency of
our pre-War period. We take up where we broke off six hundred years ago. We stop the endless
German movement to the south and west, and turn our gaze toward the land in the east. At long
last we break of the colonial and commercial policy of the pre-War period and shift to the soil
policy of the future.
If we speak of soil in Europe today, we can primarily have in mind only Russia and her vassal
border states

>tfw as a result of visiting this website american white supremacist thought concepts have polluted your mind to the point that the first thing you do when reading the word "whites" is give off an exasperated sigh before realizing the author is actually talking about the russian civil war

>the slavs are an alright bunch when you think about it
Are you an idiot or why exactly do you keep banging on about this? Nobody here is claiming Hitler loved the Slavs. It's like your IQ is actually under 85.

Mitteleuropa =/= Osteuropa you mongoloid.

The whites wouldn't be different than the Communists. First they would try to regain their lost territories so wars with Baltic states, Ukraine and Poland. Then if they were successful there would be another partition of Poland with Germany and Russia reclaiming their pre-WW1 territories.

Mittleeuropa = Germany and its Eastern Allies/Puppet States

Oh, and I'm guessing Brest-Litovsk never happened? Or is Ukraine now part of Central Europe? Drang nach Osten means Push toward the East, not Push toward the East until you reach Moscow. Poland, the Baltic States, part of Ukraine were enough.

>muh Drang Nach Osten because muh Ostsiedlung
I guess there was also Drang Nach Westen because Germans settled in America, Argentina, Canada too.

>one of the biggest ideological reasons for Operation Barbarossa was Lebrensraum
It was a tangential ideological reason at best. Basically "if we destroy the Jewish bolsheviks we might as well grab something for ourselves". It wasn't the reason for the invasion and it was never advertised that way.

>settled
Without spreading their influence, creating puppet states or Germanizing the population.

And by spreading their influence you mean existing? Not the Germans' fault they are naturally industrious and culturally productive people.

Nice strawman but your posts have all claimed that Lebensraum as invisioned by Hitler was going to be much less harsh than it was going to be.
Anyway you seem to suffer from severe social and learning disabilities and reeks of /pol/ so I'm going to go ahead and inform you that this is your last (you), maybe you can get some upvotes on reddit.

>it-its made up!

>we're NATURALLY forcing the poles to speak german

Just fuck off wehraboo, you're out of arguments.

no sources as is typical for stormfag claims

>e-everything embarrassing dear hitler wrote was JUST A JEWWISSH FAKKKEEE

No, my claim was that there was zero chance of Barbarossa happening if Russia was still under Romanov control.

>The territory on which our German peasants will one day be able to rear sturdy sons will justify the sacrifice of the lives of sons of peasants to-day, and though the statesmen responsible for this sacrifice may be persecuted by their contemporaries, posterity will absolve them from the charge of having been guilty of bloodshed and of sacrificing the nation.
Mein Kampf, Stalag Edition, p.735

We're talking about Russia under Romanov control. Is everyone here stupid? Have you read the thread?

>Hitler should rule the Slavs
It's pretty obvious from that quote that it was a bit different, retard.

Is English your first language? Actually curious, because I don't think the sentence is saying what you think it's saying.

*Hitler thought Germans should rule the slavs
Here's another one:
Thus, now, in future our people will not acquire territory and with it the means of subsistence as a favour at the hands of any other nation, but will have to win it by the power of a triumphant sword. To-day we are all convinced of the necessity for regulating our position with regard to France; but our success here will be ineffectual in the vain if the general aims of our foreign policy stop at that. It can have significance for us only if it serves to cover our flank in the struggle for that extension of territory which is necessary for the existence of
our people in Europe, for colonial acquisitions will not solve that question. It can be solved only by the acquisition of such territory for the
settlement of our people as will extend the area of the mother-country and thereby not only keep the newly-settled population in close touch with the parent-country, but will guarantee the entire territory the enjoyment of those advantages accruing from its total size.
>acquisition of such territory for the
settlement of our people

Probably not, atleast it wouldn't have been his main concern.

imfuckingplying

Stop being an anti-white faggot because you're butthurt over people arguing in support of white interests, racist.

So you're both a cuckold and a historically illiterate person.

>white interests.
such as?

Wasn't Turkey in deep shit at that point? If Britain and France backed Russia maybe they could force Turkey to give up some Armenian or Greek land.

Obviously that's assuming Russia would prefer playing around Turkey instead of recovering the territories lost in the Eastern Europe, which is doubtful.

Whites did win the civil war, the south was mostly black you retarded dixieboo! God, why are southerners so dumb.

Implying what? Third Reich was build on Soviet supplies, "Blitzkrieg" was invented on Russian plains in Kazan. Guderian trained in Russia.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kama_tank_school

The entire 20th century is one big JUST for Russia. Would have been nice if they got a break every once in a while.

If Communism in its inception had been put down by Tsarists in Russia, it would be likely Hitler would have never came to power. One of the main causes for his support was fear of communism.

go back to /pol/ stormtard. whites did win the civil war thats why 6 million jews were killed

>telling everyone what a stupid idiot you are is more important than sitting still, lurking and learning
Happy 14th birthday, huh?

Is this what passes for guile on /pol/?

>The term became a centerpiece of the program of the German nationalist movement in 1891, with the founding of the Alldeutschen Verbandes, in the words: „Der alte Drang nach dem Osten soll wiederbelebt werden" ("The old Drang nach Osten must be revived"). Nazi Germany employed the slogan in calling the Czechs a "Slav bulwark against the Drang nach Osten" in the 1938 Sudeten crisis.

>Adolf Hitler, dictator of Nazi Germany from 1933–1945, called for a Drang nach Osten to acquire territory for German colonists at the expense of central and eastern European nations.