The greatest comedian who ever lived. His greatest joke: Free will

The greatest comedian who ever lived. His greatest joke: Free will.

But what's the punchline?

By the way, any of you who say the gospel is good news, it is equally a divine threat from the throne of the most high. Many will be mutilated spiritually for infinity. You have yet to realize lol

(You) get to (((choose))).

a literal child's grasp of religious truth

Override me with fact not opinion nitwit

Ah yes, the author of all our pain, the conniving kike

Hell is the condition of alienation from God, or rather the sources of joy and goodness in oneself, just like the addict believes his fix will make him whole when he's really just running away from himself. This perpetual running away or single-minded pursuit of what is self-destructive is hell.

Upon death the self that you are (or lack thereof) is put on full display, and if you like what you see, congrats, welcome to "heaven", if you don't, senpai I got news..

actually user - he has something of a point

when we speak of Christ's salvation, what does He save us from?

He saves us from the infinite and eternal Wrath of God against Sin

~

now that's not to say that God did not ordain that Sin would exist - for in His creation of Lucifer and Adam, He made creatures that would ultimately rebel against their Creator

but if God so chooses to create vessels into which to pour that infinite Wrath, and so magnify His own Glory, that is God's right and privilege as the sole subsistent Being who can by definition of being the sole source of Morality; do nothing wrong

and since the first Adam rebelled against God, and in grasping for the same rights and privileges of God declared War on his Creator; all the offspring of the first are equally at enmity with The Lord; and are only so free in their will as to choose to rebel against Him - the imagination and intent of man being only evil from his youth, having been conceived in Sin

so really the greatest joke in this ITT thread is that anyone who does not submit and surrender to Christ, is so blinkered by Sin as to think their will is free to do anything other than wickedness, when in fact they are literally enslaved to evil from conception

~

oh but the user you are calling a babby is incorrect about this eternal 'spiritual mutilation' - because the soul is a created being, and in the natural man who rejects the Eternal One who is Life, that creature is eternally cut off from all that nourishes the spirit, it's Creator

that isn't mutilation

it's Infinite Death

>He saves us from the infinite and eternal Wrath of God against Sin
I don't know, the whole flood thing seemed like he got it wrong the first time

>Greatest comedian who ever lived.

God did never live and the historical Jesus (who lived) has nothing to do with the stupid fairytale you are believing in. Grow up dipshit and put your imaginary friend where he belongs... right there with Santa Clause, the tooth fairy and beautiful British people

There is no external authority meting out punishment according to an objective moral code that can consolidate the best-infinite wealth of subjectivity with its strictures.

When I do a thing it is a decision based to the immanent dynamics of my consciousness, who is God to tell me the criteria I made a decision by is "sinful" when it is precisely him who made me process the world a certain way - and indeed, I am nothing but this "mode" of processing?

Of course there is still sin and goodness, but goodness chosen according to a consciousness that has cultivate goodness as a criterion in itself, in fact the sole criterion

Heaven and hell are the extremes of the self that does or doesn't live in accordance with the good as it immanently apprehends it

How in any way does that differ from what I said? Those separated will be under mutilation of spirit for eons to eons becuase they could not (((understand))), even the highest creature of all in his inexplicable infinite knowledge compared to us, fell. Many are fucked. Let's all hope he let's us all in judgment day as much as we'd rather burn to ashes

It's radically different. You are not punished, you punish yourself, by coming face-to-face with how you sullied the purity of your soul in life.

OP here. Exactly. We can't even choose good unless God approves and provides grace to want to do so. Literally every action has been sanctioned by God to happen. All I really want to know is extremely important. God cannot truly expect the same resolute from every spirit on earth. For many he must be EXTREMELY lenient, expecting bare minimum. We all know there are people who will never in this lifetime logically or spiritually accept the circumstances ordained by the Father. This has to be indisputable. God cannot expect the same from an infant in Africa the same as a middle class German boy even through till their adulthood. They have two fundamentally different realities. One will reach a peak the other can never climb.

Except that it's virtually the same thing. If a boy wants to drown himself. He clearly doesn't understand the value of life. The parent can either let him real his reward or override his action and prevent him from something he does not understand yet. His punishment is exactly leaving us with knives. We kill ourselves, we did it, he did it, doesn't matter, the child is dead. And if hell really is an irreversible state, Then we have not even felt a sliver of horror. Fuck me I wish I ACTUALLY died guilty. I wish I could ACTIALLY say this was my design. A wolf in sheeps clothing, a sheep in wolf's clothing perhaps was lucifer.

Once again you're externalizing the standard instead of internalizing it: every being's perfection is unique to it alone, and insofar as you have attained some measure of it you're going to "heaven"

What does that mean to those dying in the state to hell though my friend

What? It's like a wretched man who is disturbed by the love of another, by the thought that he could be lovable. Hell is that torment, the horror of having spurned the reality of an unconditional love

Think about the last time you got heated at someone over a misunderstanding on your part, and what a dick you felt like for taking it out on someone innocent. In the same way the soul that goes to "hell" realizes their vendetta against themselves/existence was unjustified

*of hell

Some people will litteraly only understand when they die in separation from God to know they were wrong. There was no way they would meet God in good terms. So how exactly does this law Work. I'm Catholic btw so I'm working fromm the framework of venial and mortal sin

Right lol I said what do they do afterwards, are they forever separated or eventually reunited

Stop whining and take responsibility for your decisions jackass.

>Waaah when I jumped out of a moving vehicle traveling at highway speed, who is physics to tell me the criteria I made a decision by will lead to my my phyical destruction?

Seriously, why do atheists whine so much about things they unblinkingly accept without complaint when God is removed from the equation? It's so fucking annoying.

The disparity between the "quality" of your self and the absolute freedom from finitude experienced upon death will determine it. I think everyone has a sense in the back of their minds of how far they're letting themselves down, I think death will just force you to confront it, as in, whatever you were running away from is gone for good, your whole life was just a defense-formation, so what're you left with?

A soul is saved by its sense of the Good, the worse your horror of having fallen short of it, the more you are saved. That's why those who are pure evil we simply call demons: there still has enough soul to suffer if one is going to "hell"

Bad analogy, physics is objective, subjective decisions made according to subjective criteria are obviously not.

The final point is this: there's no external code, the fullness of being you have cultivated in yourself is all you are and all you're left with when reaper comes knocking, for better or for worse.

>Bad analogy, physics is objective, subjective decisions made according to subjective criteria are obviously not.
Sin is no more subjective than physics are user.

The fact physics is objective does not magically place your subjective and disastrous decision to "ghost ride the whip" into a separate category from your equally subjective and disastrous decision to embrace sin.

>2017
>unironically believing in god
Shiggeridoo

So you didn't answer my question, are they forever separated or given the chance to reverse their decision. The fact that someone is able to say no to God in his full reveal is mind boggling. The second God appears in front of you, kiss free will God bye. You are a slave, no matter how beneficial and prosperous it is, you are a slave. And those who "choose" to go the other way are not actually free, but slaves fleeing in permanent shackles. You can't choose good on your own. You can only do bad on your own. There is no control, but the wave God allows you to ride. So you can hopefully witness the meaning of the plan.

I don't embrace sin, I understand sin as meaning different things for different people, not in a facile pomo way, but that the sin of a saint is different from the sin of a murderer, that a saint who gives in and beats off has violated his sense of self about as much as the murderer who just does what he does (though you can argue that evil IS his sense of self but that's another beast)

God's good is your good, by definition, the good can never be imposed on you or else it isn't the good.

as for your question Kierkegaard says we're shackled to our selves for eternity, I think it's possible to 'wake' up again, I'd have to think on it cause I'm drawing from many different traditions here but primarily from Jakob Bohme

If hell is a reversible state then reality is somewhat digestible. If not, then my goodness how much blood flows from the streets..

>I understand sin as meaning different things for different people, not in a facile pomo way, but that the sin of a saint is different from the sin of a murderer, that a saint who gives in and beats off has violated his sense of self about as much as the murderer who just does what he does (though you can argue that evil IS his sense of self but that's another beast)

That's nice, but in the context of this conversation your understanding of sin is irrelevant. Sin may mean "different things for different people" but it only means one thing to God, just like physics means only one thing no matter what flawed understanding of it the common man may operate by in his day to day life. The fact you see things differently doesn't save you from the consequences of sin anymore so than it saves you from the consequences of your actions in relation to the physical properties of the universe. A brick wall doesn't care if you were operating under the assumption your skull was harder than it, and neither does your skull for that matter.

I'm only transposing the inalienable moral law into oneself, since it would be absurd of God to swoop in and a pull a "gotcha!" for having violated some objective code in a situation that, given the circumstances, I could not have acted differently.

>in a situation that, given the circumstances, I could not have acted differently.
That just sounds like an excuse and rationalization after the fact to me.

it only is for someone who doesn't try to embody the good, and in that case you are mostly absolved of any pesky unintended consequences, since all we can control is our inner orientation to the good

it sounds Kantian but I believe this law or feeling or w/e really does have its source in something transcendent

>31 replies
>Not ONE user posting Monsoon
This board really is Reddit

What's monsoon and reddit

He never talked about free will lol

Well I am fucked m8, how does soul mutilation feels like?

Contradiction of the self taken to an extreme. Absolute violation of self, stewing in guilt and remorse at why you did what you did for eternity

>2017
>believing in a historical Jesus

I thought this was supposed to be a history board

What if I'm pleased with what I did?

Please don't make the non-religious look stupid.

Then either I gotta sit down and think out how a serial killer would experience hell, if he did, or I can just tell you that you haven't violated your sense of self and you should be peachy. If you're being honest

It is you who do that, friend. There is no physical or archaeological evidence for the existence of Jesus. The quest for the historical Jesus is pious atheism

>what is his speech on hell and free will

There's no such thing as pious atheism and you wouldn't expect there to be physical or archaeological evidence of an individual preacher.

>I can just tell you that you haven't violated your sense of self and you should be peachy.

Excellent.

its the worst absolute kind of mutilation because you are in control, if its physical god is in control
not just that but also lack of worth in the world, not just guilt, some people have all the things in the world but hate god out of abandonment, but this is the case for most blacks, since the world echoes its true all the time, many dont get it lol