What if Hitler hadn't told Guderian to send the panzers of army group center south to Kiev instead of Moscow as...

The invasion of the Soviet Union was done while teh soviet union was at its weakest point, and Germany lost.

The Soviet Union has alway been stronger than germany, and one way or another would be under the control of the soviets.

by either the massive trade imbalance, or militarily.

the invasion was a feeble attempt to avoid that fate, and failed.

It was the Soviets war to lose, not the Germans war to win.

> Soviets literally have the largest military on the planet
> by a long shot
> The invasion of the Soviet Union was done while teh soviet union was at its weakest point

Their officer corps was neutered, you could have the best army on earth but if it's in the process of reorganization with inept or uninformed commanders beholden to central you're going to get btfo for a while

you had highschool graduates trying to coordinate(hundreds of vehicles) tank divisions, with a pencil, notepad, and a radio.

the purges, while effective in clearing the potential strays, really put the military in a vulnerable spot.

tldr;
the purges put the soviet union in a bad spot initially, and they had to reorganize their military to compensate for the lack of NCOs.

Even if they take Moscow, what of it? Real life isn't HoI

Major political victory, potential to surround and destroy huge buildup of Soviet Armies, important hub for communications and well-developed infrastructure, large population center with industries important for the Soviet war machine.

They still have the Urals where most of their heavy industry was relocating, and all their oil, and the Far Eastern Front redeploying with the knowledge Japan wasn't going to attack

All railroads passed through Moscow. With the rail network disrupted, the Red Army would have the capabilities of a Napoleonic era army.

Not east of Moscow they didn't, they'd be in a tight spot, but Germany can't win a war of attrition and they knew it

they could never take in the first place
even if they enter it, it would be a battle that would rival Stalingrad in the sheer ferocity

This tbqh
>Can't even take Leningrad when it's fucking surrounded
Germans and offensive urban warfare did not mix

Worse. Remember that even during Stalingrad, the Russians had more troops on the Moscow front.

The bulk of the russian population would be under german control, stalin would have to depend on asiatics who were probably not as dependable

It seems to me hitler was expecting a repeat of WW1 where he could negotiate another brest treaty and keep control of the ukraine.If moscow surrendered,Stalin would probably negotiate

>The bulk of the russian population would be under german control
That didn't help them when they got pushed back at Moscow in our timeline, why would it help them in that one? Germany could not win unless by some miracle they got to the Urals and destroyed the entire red army, Stalin isn't going to surrender and leave himself open to a bullet in the back of the head either

>Notices bulge

what if hitler died during the beer putch and none of that clusterfuck ever happened?

Germany becomes stronk under the based DVNP

realy all they get is defending a place even further away in a logistic nightmare, there would be a battle of moscow same as a battle of stalingrad and the germans would get bogged down, cut off and sorrounded same as they did any way, what they realy wanted was to get to the oil fields in the south east, they needed those, they didnt need mocow

>same as a battle of stalingrad
Apparently the militia raided the vodka factories and got blind drunk, an attack in september had every chance of being successful (with no siberian divisions arriving til december)

operationbarbarossa.net/the-siberian-divisions-and-the-battle-for-moscow-in-1941-42/

First off, that's just wrong. Secondly, the "Siberian divisions" had a relatively minor effect on Taifun overall, the overwhelming bulk of the Soviet defense was done with troops raised along the Volga. Thirdly, you are ignoring (like everyone seems to) the terrible offensive the Soviets embarked on in early September which is not likely to happen if the Germans seemed poised to continue their attacks in that sector. An attack in September would advance more slowly than the historical Taifun because there were actually more troops there, even assuming the troops in Kiev do absolutely nothing, which is a dumb assumption to make.

They couldn't attack in September though, rasputitsa is like that and by waiting till September to take the Soviet capital they'd literally fucked everything up

holy fuck that plan. Germany would be uninhabitable.

>What if Hitler hadn't told Guderian to send the panzers of army group center south to Kiev instead of Moscow as supported by most Generals?
>Would the Germans have taken Moscow? Did this move cost Hitler the war?

Stalingrad happens in Winter 41 in moscow instead of Stalingrad.

>Implying they would get to Moscow.

They didn't take stalingrad as well so yeah who cares how many bombed buildings they capture before the whole Heeresgruppe Mitte dies.

No, I'm not saying they wouldn't capture Moscow. I'm saying they wouldn't reach Moscow.

stop with the purged ruining the army meme, lack of fuel at the beggining and lack of NCO´s in late Barbarossa was a thing that caused all the mess.