What the fuck was their problem?

>pictures of Poles very likely murdered by German fascists during the uprising
>posts a shitty picture showing fascism in a positive light

nazism is bad fascism, mostly due to its marxist roots

Are you serious? Some 20.000-50.000 people were executed after the war. Children of republicans were kidnapped and given to Franco supporters. Hundreds of prisoners and concentration camps were opened for his opponents and so on.

>When Heinrich Himmler visited Spain in 1940, a year after Franco’s victory, he claimed to have been "shocked" by the brutality of the Falangist repression.[168] In July 1939, the foreign minister of Fascist Italy, Galeazzo Ciano, reported of "trials going on every day at a speed which I would call almost summary... There are still a great number of shootings. In Madrid alone, between 200 and 250 a day, in Barcelona 150, in Seville 80".

Yeah I'm sure that happend because of fascism itself fundamentally and not the fact that liberal America and the reds bombed the ideology away.

>When Heinrich Himmler visited Spain in 1940, a year after Franco’s victory, he claimed to have been "shocked" by the brutality of the Falangist repression.[168]
This is new to me. The source for this goes to George Packer, a modern writer who never wrote a history book in his life.
I'm interested in more sources for Himmler ''shock''.
As I was searching for the victims of Franco I find always communists who were soon-to-be genociders (like Stalin or Pol-Pot) I can't find innocent victims

I don't think there is a serious study about how many died in that war

ITT: Things French will never understand

>I don't think there is a serious study about how many died in that war
There are many books written by historians.

Beevor, Preston, Payne, Hugh...

And their numbers are almost 4x less than 400k by Michael Richards.
Anyway, let's say Franco really did murder 400k people.
That's insane, that's like he killed 60% of the entire liberal/communist/anarchist movement.

The spanish communists were brutal. Franco's reaction was because a 100+ year genocide in the name of liberalism.
In the french revolution about ~2 million people were murdered and in 19th century Spain the same kind of liberal/libertarian murdered thousands of not tens of thousands of people

>I prefer Franco traditional fascism
So you don't like fascism?

he was a fascist in the way of combining military with civil power in a period of great instability and danger
How would you describe his regime?

>That's insane, that's like he killed 60% of the entire liberal/communist/anarchist movement.
Funny how afterwards you repeat the idiotic propaganda of 2 million people murdered during the French Revolution.

Pretty standard Spanish strongman syndrome, most of the actual fascists left the Falange when he combined it with the Carlists because that's stupid. By your logic any military dictator of the 19th century is a fascist as well

>when he combined it with the Carlists because that's stupid
Why? Carlists had the support of the Catholic Church and they weren't revolutionaries

Do I have to explain to you the differences between Carlism and Fascism now?

>Between 1789 and 1802, there were about 1 400 000 killed (Sorokin, Pitirim. The Sociology of Revolution. 1967). That number includes those killed during the revolution itself (1789-1799) and the Revolutionary Wars (1792-1802).

Ok so 1.4 million

Franco wasn't a Carlist, he was a military leader. He combined the civil with military power. It was pretty much the best form of government in my opinion because it protects the country from external enemies but most importantly against inside enemies

He combined the carlists and falange into the same ruling party, they fucking hated each other and there were several incidents where they shot each other in the 40's. Franco was just a self confessed Caudillo like the dozens of South American ones, nothing to do with fascism

Portugal was living its french revolution (the liberal revolution of 1820) and France was supporting any freemasonic movement.
The reason why Spanish had 100+ years of wars is the same reason why French had its French revolution: freemasons, liberals and socialists against tradition

No. Even if you include the war in Vandee there were only some 200.000 casualties.

>revolutionary wars
Irrelevant.

>March 1562 – April 1598 (36 years and 1 month)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Wars_of_Religion
2-4 million casualties of your glorious monarchy. So in 36 years they killed much more than "genocide in the name of liberalism".

>He combined the carlists and falange into the same ruling party
a great move in my opinion. Most of falangists were pro-Catholic and pro-tradition. They weren't like the pagan fascists in Italy

but the French Wars of religion were nothing but a result of Lutheranism and later other protestant movements in Netherlands and Switzerland.
If you are going to blame 4 million on Catholic Church you are saying it was the Catholic Church who started to murder Protestants which is a fantasy.
Protestantism was consolidated through wars and violence, not the other way around.

Is that why the Falange chucked grenades into a Carlist rally in Bilbao? Because they were so agreeable?

As far as I know a minority of falangists refused to enter the same party as the Carlists. The real reason they hated the Carlists I don't know since Carlists supported Franco and his military movement since early 30s

>Fascism, since that is the word that is used, fascism presents, wherever it manifests itself, characteristics which are varied to the extent that countries and national temperaments vary. It is essentially a defensive reaction of the organism, a manifestation of the desire to live, of the desire not to die, which at certain times seizes a whole people. So each people reacts in its own way, according to its conception of life. Our rising, here, has a Spanish meaning! What can it have in common with Hitlerism, which was, above all, a reaction against the state of things created by the defeat, and by the abdication and the despair that followed it?
Franco was a fascist.

Falangists don't believe in a monarchy, why wouldn't they hate Carlists?

Can you stop glorifying fascist scum in a thread about brave Polish soldiers fighting against the fascists?

at that moment it was the best thing, it would preserve order and they would rely on Franco's ability to negotiate with both fascists and monarchists. It would also unite the country after a bloody war and 100 years of anti-Catholicism

I don't think you're understanding, Carlism is opposed to Falangism and vice versa. There's no way the 2 will ever get along well

>after a bloody war and 100 years of anti-Catholicism
>100 years of anti-Catholicism
Examples? I bet you think separation of Church and State is persecution.

>What the fuck was their problem?
Lack of guns, ammunition, armed vechicles, food, medical supplies, combat experience, numbers, allied air dominance and allied support, and that's already in the start of the uprising...

In short fascism worships the state (and it's always collectivist just like communism.) In Spain there were singularities. Many Carlists tolerated fascists and fascists tolerated monarchists.
That's because at the time it was either trying to survive or dying in the hands of liberals, communist and anarchists. I even dare to say the liberals, communists and anarchists were a majority and it's a miracle Franco won the war.
When Luther wanted a Church to give his sermons, he convinced his followers to invade a Catholic Church, remove the sacred statues and painting and make the Church his own. What happened in the french revolution, in the liberal revolution in Portugal (1820) and in the liberal wars in Spain was something much more violent and brutal. It was about killing Catholics at any cost. The liberals wanted the power the Church had at the time and they used violence (killing Catholics) to achieve that goal.
It was like this in Brazil too, perpretated by the same societies whose share the same ideology. They wrote a letter saying that now they would control the city and the lands used by monks and priests and bishop are now no longer Catholic property. If they refused it was a bloodbath.

Martin Luther Luther:

"Why do we not rather assault them with arms and wash our hands in their blood"

"If I had all the Franciscan friars in one house, I would set fire to it. ... To the fire with them!"
(Grisar, VI, 247; Table Talk [edited by Mathesius], 180; summer 1540)

Maximilien de Robespierre:

"The revolutionary government owes to the good citizen all the protection of the nation; it owes nothing to the Enemies of the People but death."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror

When writing about Protestant Wars no one dares to cite Luther and his call for calling people just like liberals refuse to cite agitators during the French Revolution which called for the murder of innocent people.

Uprising was a suicidal retarded affair and only niggers from w*saw glorify it instead of superior Greater Poland Uprising which achieved it's goal of BTFOing krauts.

Fuck warsaw I wish it got bombed again a fucking nigger infested shithole I saw 2 niggers there I bet there is 20 more.

>Franco traditional fascism that wasn't violent

>protestants chimping out and getting themselves repressed is the fault of the one fighting against them

True Aryans who got sick and tired of the G*rman's shit

Being European

>nigger infested shithole I saw 2 niggers there I bet there is 20 more.

kek

>It is necessary to spread terror. We have to create the impression of mastery eliminating without scruples or hesitation all those who do not think as we do. There can be no cowardice. If we hesitate one moment and fail to proceed with the greatest determination, we will not win. Anyone who helps or hides a Communist or a supporter of the Popular Front will be shot.
Here, it seems you like quotes.

he's not wrong y'know

> What the fuck was their problem?

Get partitioned by krauts, mountain krauts and black-assed russkies
120 years of foreign occupation and brutal oppression
Each generation rises up in rebellion, only to be savagely smacked down
Institutionalized suppression of culture, language and religion
1918, finally independent again
Immediately have to fight another war against Jew Bolsheviks
Barely 20 years later, get double teamed by Nazis and Soviets
Even more brutal oppression with mass murders happening daily
Nazis on their way out, Soviets on their way in
Rise up again to try and regain independence
Even Boy Scouts are fighting tooth-and-nail against the oppressors
Nazis bring in battalions of literal criminals to murder Poles
Soviets leave them swinging in the wind (while extorting them to fight)
Western Allies sit on their hands and do fuck all

Maybe the reason you don’t get it, is because unlike the Poles, you’re a pussy?

>Immediately have to fight another war against Jew Bolsheviks
dont attack them if you dont want to fight them nigger
>Soviets leave them swinging in the wind (while extorting them to fight)
Try to secure the fucking briges if you want to get help from Soviets

what the fuck am i reading ahahaaha

>I even dare to say the liberals, communists and anarchists were a majority and it's a miracle Franco won the war
You'd be wrong, the Republican army was a joke that relied on volunteer militias and various law enforcement agencies for the first year and a half because they barely had any loyal army units

Gen. Sosabowski, the General in charge of the Polish forces during Market Garden, begged the western allies to let him and his brigade be dropped into Warsaw during the uprising. But the soviets refused to let them use their airfields.
Also Sosabowski's son, who still lived in Warsaw, would end up losing his sight because of injuries suffered during the uprising.

>On the left
>Boy[female]scouts

Ивaн, please. If it wasn’t for American support, you’d be huddling in Siberia slapping at mosquitos.

The French had a larger resistance movement than Poland...

yeah, once Allies were at their doorstep, suddenly everyone was a resistance fighter
fucking pathetic

You could say the same for the AK who didn't start their uprising until the Soviets were in Wolowin

that's because they never had an opportunity like that before
Poles never collaborated with Germans, unlike French who were happy to betray Jews (who were French citizens themselves) to the Gestapo

>Poles never collaborated with Germans
Except the ones that did like Blue Police and other elements of the General Government

No, you couldn’t, average German troop loses to Polish partisans were 250-350 per month in 1942, climbing to 750-1700 per month by 1944 and this in the heart of the Nazi empire, with a massive military occupation and the German main logistical lines to the war in the east running straight thru Polish territory, all the while only getting 350 tons of Allied air drops while the French got over 10,000 tons.

Meanwhile, thousands of French troops who had escaped to British held territory after the fall of France, were _voluntarily_ repatriated back to France, where they’d sit out the war helping the German war effort and wait for the Allies to liberate them, then they all declared they had been in La Resistance all along….

>He had to click on the Carlists to know what they were before posting

>Except the ones that did like Blue Police and other elements of the General Government

The Blue Police only option was to comply or get a bullet in the head and Home Army assassinated any Pole they could who willingly worked with the Nazis.

There's a reason that the ONLY occupied nation in WWII that didn't raise volunteer troops for the Germans, were the Poles.

>average German troop loses to Polish partisans were 250-350 per month in 1942, climbing to 750-1700 per month by 1944
could you give me a source for that? It sounds quite interesting stuff to read about.

I'm not the one making bold claims about how Poles NEVER collaborated with Germans user, calm down, some did and that's a fact

>some
Individuals. Sadly some of them were really successful.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwik_Kalkstein

>kalkstein

fucking kalkstein

Was Poland the most suffering nation of the war?

Well they definitely got the worst end result they could of

Well more jews died during the war itself, but Poland definitely got fucked the worst long-term.

What about polish fascists?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Radical_Camp_Falanga

This, real fascists hate the Eternal kraut

There are always individuals who will collaborate but the fact is, the Germans couldn’t even put together a battalion of volunteer Polish troops for propaganda purposes and for example after the battle of the Falise Pocket, the Free Polish Army made up it’s losses thru captured Poles who had been drafted into the German army.

I'm not debating that, user said Poles never collaborated, he's fucking wrong. End of discussion

>only Germans can be fascists
Fuck off bitch, get bent

Mostly traditional polish Russophobia fueled by traditional British promises. They wanted for the Soviet Union to spend hundreds of thousand lives liberating them without having a say in the post-war political organization, this is why they staged the unnecessary uprising just as the Soviets came close, only to have a dubious claim on "liberating themselves". Too bad Stalin didn't want to waste lives and resources on supporting hostile pro-British government at his border and the British couldn't do anything they've promised. To be clear, I admire the people who fought and died during the Uprising, but they were just pawns in British hands, dying for Churchill, not for Poland. It's kinda funny how the British managed to betray Poles twice during a single war.

>tfw no qt polish loli gf

>It's kinda funny how the British managed to betray Poles twice during a single war.
And they still prefer us over the Russians. Good I do love me a couple of Blind idiots

>t. conservacuck

>nazism
>marxist roots

it's not like russians weren't worse than germans or anything lmao

Because fascist spain left a society of 1950's nuclear families, right? never got embroiled in a world war, and had a peaceful transfer of power.

>this is why they staged the unnecessary uprising just as the Soviets came close, only to have a dubious claim on "liberating themselves

It's almost as if the soviets allied with hitler and launched a surprise attack on poland at the beginning of the war.

Now I think of it, it was actually at least 5 incidents:
1. When they didn't invade Germany proper in September 1939, as they had promised to do.
2. When they didn't declare war on the Soviet Union on September 18, 1939, as they were bound to do by the treaty.
3. When they promised to support the Uprising and failed to do so. Yeah, the evil Soviets didn't allow them to use their frontline airfields, but they should have consulted the Soviets before making any promises. Why did they expect Stalin would support that is basically anti-Soviet uprising?
4. When they surrounded Poland to 100% Soviet dominations in Yalta.
5. When they agreed on annexation of the Eastern Poland.

And Poles still love the British for some fucking reason.

>And Poles still love the British for some fucking reason.
not at all. fuck the br*tshits

They never learn. Which is good we Need Useful Idiots to combat Russia growing power.

However bad Russians were, they didn't kill several millions of Polish civilians.
I agree with your in general, but at the time the uprising was meaningless bloodloss because with Red army sweeping across the country, Stalin would have had his way anyway, AK had no chance against the Red Army and in no way the Allies would have started WW3 over Poland. As I've said, (justified or not) Russophobia fueled by British promises resulted in the doomed suicidal uprising.

>image pic
>retarded post
shithuanian spotted, how's it going 90IQ monkey

>they didn't kill several millions of Polish civilians
they did. sometimes in more brutal ways than germans. not even kidding.

[citation needed]
Katyn, the nexus of polish butthurt, was an execution of 20k officers.

>[citation needed]

>"In addition to the thousands who fell in battle, 128 men were hanged personally by Mikhail Muravyov ('Muravyov the Hangman'), and 9423 people were exiled to Siberia (2500 according to low Russian data estimates, Norman Davies gives the number of 80,000 noting it was the single largest deportation in Russian history).[5] Whole villages and towns were burned down; all activities were suspended and the szlachta was ruined by confiscation and exorbitant taxes. Such was the brutality of the Russian troops that their actions were condemned throughout Europe, and even in Russia itself Muravyov became ostracized.[6] Count Fyodor Berg, the newly appointed Namestnik of Poland, followed in Muravyov's footsteps, employing inhumanly harsh measures against the country."

>"After the collapse of the uprising, harsh reprisals followed. According to Russian official information, 396 persons were executed and 18,672 were exiled to Siberia. Large numbers of men and women were sent to the interior of Russia and to Caucasus, Urals and other sections. Altogether about 70,000 persons were imprisoned and subsequently taken out of Poland and stationed in remote regions of Russia."

>"The government confiscated 1,660 estates in Poland and 1,794 in Lithuania. A 10% income tax was imposed on all estates as a war indemnity. Only in 1869 was this tax reduced to 5% on all incomes. Serfdom was abolished in Russian Poland on 19 February 1864. It was deliberately enacted in a way that would ruin the szlachta. It was the only area where peasants paid the market price in redemption for the land (the average for the empire was 34% above the market price). All land taken from Polish peasants since 1846 was to be returned without redemption payments. The ex-serfs could only sell land to other peasants, not szlachta. 90% of the ex-serfs in the empire who actually gained land after 1861 were in the eight western provinces. Along with Romania, Polish landless or domestic serfs were the only ones to be given land after serfdom was abolished."

>"All this was to punish the szlachta's role in the uprisings of 1830 and 1863. Besides the land granted to the peasants, the Russian Government gave them additional forest, pasture and other privileges (known under the name of servitutes) which proved to be a source of incessant irritation between the landowners and peasants in the following decades, and an impediment to economic development.[citation needed] The government took over all the church estates and funds, and abolished monasteries and convents. With the exception of religious instruction, all other studies in the schools were ordered to be in the Russian. Russian also became the official language of the country, used exclusively in all offices of the general and local government. All traces of former Polish autonomy were removed and the kingdom was divided into ten provinces, each with an appointed Russian military governor and all under complete control of the Governor General in Warsaw. All former Polish government functionaries were deprived of their positions and replaced by Russian officials."

>"A rule of terror was started by the NKVD and other Soviet agencies. The first victims were the approximately 230,000 Polish prisoners of war.[17] The Soviet Union had not signed any international convention on rules of war and they were denied the status of prisoners of war. When the Soviets conducted recruitment activities among the Polish military, an overwhelming majority of the captured officers refused to cooperate; they were considered enemies of the Soviet Union and a decision was made by the Soviet Politburo (5 March 1940) to secretly execute them (22,000 officers and others).[84] The officers and a large number of ordinary soldiers[85] were then murdered (see Katyn massacre) or sent to Gulag.[86] Of the 10,000-12,000 Poles sent to Kolyma in 1940–41, most POWs, only 583 men survived, released in 1941–42 to join the Polish Armed Forces in the East.[87]"

>"Terror policies were also applied to the civilian population. The Soviet authorities regarded service for the prewar Polish state as a "crime against revolution"[89] and "counter-revolutionary activity",[90] and subsequently started arresting large numbers of Polish intelligentsia, politicians, civil servants and scientists, but also ordinary people suspected of posing a threat to Soviet rule. Schoolchildren as young as 10 or 12 years old who laughed at Soviet propaganda presented in schools were sent into prisons, sometimes for as long as 10 years.[65]

>And Poles still love the British for some fucking reason
??????

>The prisons soon became severely overcrowded with detainees suspected of anti-Soviet activities and the NKVD had to open dozens of ad hoc prison sites in almost all towns of the region.[69][82] The wave of arrests led to forced resettlement of large categories of people (kulaks, Polish civil servants, forest workers, university professors or osadniks, for instance) to the Gulag labor camps.[68] The Polish and formerly Polish citizens, a large proportion of whom were ethnic minorities, were deported mostly in 1940, typically to northern Russia, Kazakhstan and Siberia.[41][91]

>Following the Operation Barbarossa and the Sikorski–Mayski agreement, in the summer of 1941 the exiled Poles were released under the declared amnesty. Many thousands trekked south to join the newly formed Polish Army, but thousands were too weak to complete the journey or perished soon afterwards.[92]

>According to a 2009 estimate by IPN, around 150,000 Polish citizens died as a result of the Soviet occupation.[44][45] The number of deportees was estimated at around 320,000.[44][45]"

>shithuanian spotted, how's it going 90IQ monkey
Look here you piece of shit. Either get in line and side with Nato and be the good guy or Kneel before Russia. But nobody gives two shits about you or your Grievances.

>german occupation
1939-1944/5
>russian occupation
1939-1990

????
i would personally rape your asshole and there would be nothing you could do about it, cuck