Was the moon landing faked to gain the upper hand in the space race?

Was the moon landing faked to gain the upper hand in the space race?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=VmVxSFnjYCA
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing#Manned_Moon_landings
pages.astronomy.ua.edu/keel/space/apollo.html
zarya.info/Kettering/Archive/Chronology1.php
telegraph.co.uk/news/science/space/6105902/Moon-rock-given-to-Holland-by-Neil-Armstrong-and-Buzz-Aldrin-is-fake.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_and_missing_moon_rocks
twitter.com/AnonBabble

yes and the russians played along for shits and giggles

It would be easier to actually put a man on the moon than to fake a moon landing.

What's the difficulty in acting it

How would that work, exactly? You realize the USSR would have, I don't know, EXPOSED THE FAKE? You don't think the global scientific community would have noticed that the radio emitting plaque the astronauts claimed to have placed on the Moon wasn't there? rather than, you know, being there?

preventing evidence of it from leaking

The fact that the Soviets have spies everywhere and they'll bust you. Do you think that somehow the Soviets weren't monitoring the American space program?

They could have played along for cold war's sake.

I don't actually believe this, but I want to see a really good, ultimate argument against this.

The footage itself is mysteriously disappeared now, so any evidence of it being fake could very well be too.

To give an example on how deep Soviet spies had infiltrated Western shit. The guy responsible for Anti-Soviet propaganda in Britain was a Soviet spy, wouldn't be surprised if they had spies in the space program.

>They could have played along for cold war's sake.

So the Soviets would have "played along" with an American PR stunt.........just because?

I looked at the full moon last night and it occured to me that Moon Landing was a hoax

I mean, given how bright it is even from Earth, there's no way Lance Armstrong wouldnt have turned blind if he walked on it

No shit they had spies in the space program, and the U.S. had spies as well

Hell we got some of the technology from the Russians, technology that put them on the fucking moon

Not referring to the soviets but more everyone else in that case. All tactics the soviets could apply against the US program could also be applied in reverse

>The footage itself is mysteriously disappeared now

They probably converted it to digital. Why wouldn't they? The footage itself is widely available.

The Soviets are an extremely important variable in this. The entire reason for going to the moon was to prove that American technology was superior.

I love how people say Kubrick was the one who faked it when he would have just gone to the Moon himself to film.

It still makes no sense for the original to just be gone, especially with how valuable that is

There's also the possibility the US sent a rover with the footage onto the moon, then had it transmit the signal. That's retarded as fuck but it's possible

>Easier to maintain a server than it is to maintain a huge storehouse of film

It only makes no sense when you already know what answer you wanted to hear before you asked the question

Obviously it's easier, but it's the original recording for christ's sake, there's too much sentimental value in that.

Isn't the explanation for this that it was "lost" too?

>everyone else in that case.

So you posit a GLOBAL conspiracy? For what end? To make the sheeple think one of the two sides involved in this GLOABL conspiracy had beaten the other one? What?

Isn't that the whole point of it either way?

>sentimental value
You don't know very many scientists, do you?

I think they were more excited to be studying moon rocks and planning new missions than they were to be preserving footage on obsolete storage mediums.

And you're ignoring the fact that moon landing deniers have been pouring through the data for decades now, requiring experts to explain every last supposed discrepancy and film artifact, and now that they've poured through it all without a single shred that it was faked, their next justification is "well there probably was evidence at one point but they obviously destroyed it."

Why? Because despite hundreds of hours of footage you weren't able to find a single shred of evidence in support of your claim? None of the actual footage is "lost", just the original storage medium.

Firstly it doesn't take much effort, secondly it's so historical I feel this is completely justified.

Again, I don't deny the moon landing because that's some quite clear retardation, I just want to see if it can be doubtlessly proven to be true.

Why would they NOT convert the film to digital? What would be motivation for NOT doing that?

>let's turn the constitution into a pdf and burn the original
>fuck old media, that shit is for sentimental fags amirite guys?

Thry can convert it to whatever the fuck they want, why would you not safeguard the original is the point.

That someone probably already has and it's probably public in that form already?

>I just want to see if it can be doubtlessly proven to be true.
No, you're grasping at straws and still haven't addressed the central problem with your thesis

What incentive would Soviet and international scientists have for going along with a giant, meticulous American lie, for which there is not a single shred of evidence?

These tiny discrepancies can be far more easily explained as problems related to bureaucratic overhead than some malicious global conspiracy by Americans

>why would you not safeguard the original

Why would you?

>A document written on parchment designed to last for centuries
>storage media which degrades after only a few decades

Any more false equivalences for me to debunk?

Provided they even knew it was fake(which as I think I said earlier could be dealt with) they could play along because of dissent/support of the first world, being bribed, convinced by filthy pig spies etc.

As for non-soviet scientists I think support of the first world is most likely, science tends to be directed politically anyway.

How would faking it gain the upper hand? You know what the space race was actually about, right? A hint: it wasn't for the sake of advancing humanity.

As someone said earlier in this thread, it'd show American tech is superior and make the soviets look inferior or something

>they could play along because of dissent/support of the first world

You do realize that the Soviets were totally humiliated by the moon landing, right? Finding even just a tiny piece of evidence to unravel their public embarrassment and you think they wouldn't have been all over that as evidence that the Americans cheated to beat them to the moon?

youtube.com/watch?v=VmVxSFnjYCA

you're literally hysterical

People have been visiting the moon since classical times (source: Lucian), so why even bother faking it?

What evidence would you suggest they could have found?

this i believe

>What evidence would you suggest they could have found?
How about the hundreds of hours of footage that we do have which is pristine, flawless, and without a single doubt as to its authenticity?

Saged
Reported

And did you even click on my link? You can shine your own laser at the moon and reflect off of the retroreflectors which the astronauts left there

I dont understand how this would be evidence that it's fake?

"Authentic" doesn't necessarily mean "taken on THE MOON"

Are you serious? Do you have any idea as to the sheer magnitude that something like that would take? Hundreds of hours without a single screw up? Not even a tiny, trivial one?

Those could have also been put there later, it's too late to verify from when those are now.

I'm not sure what you mean by this

>Those could have also been put there later, it's too late to verify from when those are now.
nigger we know the precise spot where the astronauts left them, we know which lander left them in which location.

You see these pictures right here? Taken by the Japanese SELENE lunar probe. How the fuck do you fake footsteps on the moon?

>By editing them in? I mean have any of us ever been on the moon ourselves to look at this

Because you started with a conclusion ("the lunar landings were faked") and you're working backwards to try and justify it.

Hundreds of hours of supposedly fake footage good enough to fool scientists and engineers who don't have a dog in this fight? The magnitude of such a thing would be truly mindboggling

Obviously, because I want to cover every claim that can be made for this position and see if the whole conspiracy theory can be shut down well.

I dont think apollo 11 is hundreds of hours of footage

Oh, so that includes the Chandrayaan-1 Indian Probe and the Chang'e 2 Chinese probe, three different missions from three different countries which all independently verified the presence of people on the moon?

>IT'S A GLOBAL CONSPIRACY

You're making shit up at this point, you're lucky that you don't have anyone putting your views to the level of scrutiny that you're putting the moon landings too

>I dont think apollo 11 is hundreds of hours of footage
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing#Manned_Moon_landings

what about using a remote controlled drone to place and take the things there?? (like radios, mirrors and lunar rocks, etc)

That's a good point, I wasn't aware of this.

Stop thinking I actually believe this, I've said like 3 times now I just want to see the legitimacy of the landing undoubtedly confirmed.

Ohh yeah! They might have sent WALKING ROBOTS to leave all those footprints up there!

THE GUBMINT HAS THOSE IN AREA 51!

No evidence will be enough for a Moon landing denier just as no evidence would be enough for a Holocaust denier.

I would unironically support a Holocaust of all Holocaust and Moon landing deniers so that 50 years from now we can have Holocaust and Moon landing deniers' Holocaust deniers.

It would be hillarious.

>Stop thinking I actually believe this
My apologies, it just gets exceedingly frustrating when people categorically refuse a mountain of evidence while clinging zealously to the tiniest fragment of a conjecture

If it worked once, it seems like the same principle could be done over multiple times, especially as no one really cares for the other landings

that makes zero sense, the ussr would've absolutely loved to rub americas nose in it.

we've gone over that before in here

You could literally watch the landers going to the moon with a telescope
pages.astronomy.ua.edu/keel/space/apollo.html

pictures are much easyer to fake than mirrors on the moon or rocks from the moon??

So what's your solution then? How would the Americans fool the Soviets?

Ok genius here's the thing.
Rockets aren't just conjured in to existence. And rocket fuels don't grow on trees. (well technically oxygen does but let's not get pedantic)
NASA had to commission and buy all the shit used for the space program, there's all sorts of companies involved, and all sorts of people work for those companies.
Now here's the thing; the amount of force you can get out of burning a rocket fuel mixture is a known, provable quantity. Anyone with a high school level laboratory or better can confirm it for themselves. And we know, through the companies involved, that NASA bought enough fuel to do what they say they did. Any engineer could look at their engines and tell that they had the performance numbers they say they did, and we know from the production history that they produced the engines to those specifications, and we know that the rocket they built was of the dimensions needed to hold all that fuel, the engines had the combined strength to lift it, the lander and its engines could do what they said they could do. This has all been double and triple checked by engineers and physics students all over the world, in countries that are both in favor of and against the united states. We know they built a rocket that was capable of landing people on the moon, so why the fuck would they go through all that trouble and then fake it?

How do you know that's difficult?

By doing it in a way that the Soviets physically can't get evidence against it, probably. Someone earlier brought up the point with radio signals, to which I'd say they could have positioned a probe on the moon to send those.

But how do you fake a radio transmission to an institution which had been independently tracking American and Soviet transmissions for decades
zarya.info/Kettering/Archive/Chronology1.php
>1972 December From Florida, Dick Flagg picks up Apollo 17 on its way to the Moon.

Don't take me wrong, I too believe they were there.
but as much as I have to admit there are pictures of footsteps on the moon, I think you have to admit that the mirrors and rocks could have been taken through drones. Or couldn't they?

So how'd they land a probe on the moon without anyone noticing?

And how would they get footprints on the moon?

If everyone thought it happened then that'd create enough revenue to make up for it regardless, so the costs and scope of the production and preparation for this is kinda irrelevant. I think it's not about getting to the moon as much as it was about landing on it and coming back safely.

>I think you have to admit that the mirrors and rocks could have been taken through drones. Or couldn't they?

They couldn't.

Have you seen what robotics technology was like in the late 1960's? Your car probably has more processing power than any piece of equipment NASA or the Soviet space agency had available to them. How do you tell a drone with less processing power than a speak n spell to put down a mirror just precisely and then pick up rocks and bring them back to Earth?

It literally would have been more cost effective and practical for them to send a person to go do all that shit

It's pretty pointlessly expensive to keep the original version, look at how protected the original copy of the constitution is (note that the constitution actually has many advantages in being kept in it's original condition to protect against animal farm-esque edits), then ask an organization regulalry bullied when cuts are made to have that same level of security for an event that they could store far easier, and could explain with the scientific knowledge gained from the moon landing even if no copies of the recording of the event existed.

It's not an overly complex task in this context?

>I think you have to admit that the mirrors and rocks could have been taken through drones.

And where are these drones now?

Area 51, obviously, chilling with Elvis and Ayyy lmao aliens

I'm not talking about the cost at all, I'm saying that there are shitloads of people involved, many of whom have nothing to do with the US government, and who are smart enough to know that what they're making is the real deal. Rocketdyne alone, the people who constructed the Saturn V's main engines, employed 34,000 people at this period. The F-1 rocket engine component schematics are public record. They'd know if what they were making wasn't capable of doing the job. You're saying that their entire educated engineering staff was in on it?
And again, this is just the company involved in producing ONE of the thousands of components of each saturn V rocket

Dozens of nations tracked them on their way to the moon

It's possible to see the artifacts left up there with a decent observatory, and observers from dozens of nations have all seen the remains of the moon landings

The technology necessary to fake it in a believable way didn't really exist in the 1960's

So no, it wasn't faked

>im fucking plying the us wouldn't be constantly talking about how they managed to automate a robot to pick up rocks and set up complex mirrors
>in the late 60's
>in the middle of a dick waving contest over who has the best technology
>implying that feats robots can only somewhat effectively do TODAY was possible 50 years ago
You are stupid.

They'd believe it was all the real deal and were eventually told so, I don't see the problem with this.

We're talking about the engineers who designed and built the fucking things. They knew the physics. They knew how much fuel and oxidizer will go through this engine, how much thrust it will produce, and how much it will heat up.
Either they were all in on it, or NASA produced engines actually capable of lifting that much payload in to orbit.

>They'd believe it was all the real deal and were eventually told so
You think engineers wouldn't know that the shit they were designing was junk?

Point taken, seems pretty solid.

>that'd create enough revenue
The space race wasn't a matter of money you dipshit, it was a matter of international prestiege.

You're missing user's point here

>Hey Frank you know that engine we were contracted to make?
>You mean the one we ourselves designed to get to the moon Bob?
>Yeah, turns out the government never planned to do that, they reasoned it was better to fake the landing with a rocket that actually could get them to the moon, because they couldn't actually get to the moon.

>if i can't directly observe it, it doesn't exist!
Whenever i'm not looking, the entire Asian continent is submerged under the sea, prove me wrong.

I never claimed otherwise

You're not wrong about how it has sentimental value to laypeople, but like another user pointed out NASA scientists weren't all that attached to the actual original footage since their job was engineering and data analysis, not being a museum

That being said, they didn't seek out the original and then scrub it, there was a terminal shortage of tapes and thus NASA, like almost any other large organization at the time that used tapes, constantly recycled them.

It's not uncommon for footage like that to be lost forever, even with companies like the BBC who accidentally erased entire seasons of their own shows even when their job WAS specifically to keep and hold media that they had the rights to.

I wonder what kind of mindset it takes to look at the moon landing and think "egregious hoax" or "evil US imperialism".

You can literally shine a laser at reflectors left on the moon to verify there were humans there.

You don't know shit about scientists.

Couldn't Soviet telescopes just zoom in on the supposed landing sight and call BS if there was no moon landing?

It's honestly the mindset of someone who needs there to be a boogieman, be it the world government somehow stopping people from circumnavigating the world because it's flat or that we would literally waste money to pretend we went to the moon and some how pull modern day rovers out of our collective asses in the 1970's to put some mirrors and fake boot prints...because reasons.

evidence leaked from the astronauts themselves, but they were murdered. see gus grissom

wow your cognitive dissonance is astounding. and I guess the fact they stopped going to the moon means nothing, or the fact they broadcasted the moon lading on specifically outdated tech, and most people learned about it from the radio..

Why in the fuck would they lose the footage of THE GREATEST ACHIEVEMENT OF MANKIND.

They have footage of the superbowls from the 30's readily available, and it doesnt strike you as odd that the moon landings have been rife with controversy since the beginning.

you mean the government that collapsed/ was entirely supported by western capitalist whos interest it was to start the space race an owned the media?

telegraph.co.uk/news/science/space/6105902/Moon-rock-given-to-Holland-by-Neil-Armstrong-and-Buzz-Aldrin-is-fake.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_and_missing_moon_rocks

isn't it funny how all the moon rocks turn out fake/ missing too, along with the footage and telemetry data?

It's like all the evidence that could be used to prove the fakeness of it all dissapears while NASA collects billions a year in tax money

Yes. Yet the Soviet Union didn't even try to deny that the USA had landed on the moon. Really makes you think.

The Soviets didn't collapse until long after the moon landings.

>Yet the Soviet Union didn't even try to deny that the USA had landed on the moon.

The KGB did try to promote the conspiracy theory, actually, but the Soviets never "officially" said that the Moon landings were fake, which is something that they ABSOLUTELY would have done if they had even the slightest evidence of such a thing.

>was entirely supported by western capitalist
So now the entire Cold War was faked too?