Mudslimes like to scream about how the fall of al-Andalus was a great blow to humanity and their civilization, and stage stunts like this which get a million likes from their co-religionists on Facebook:
youtube.com
Europeans (the few who give a shit) also do this about Istanbul, but as they are less alpha than the Muslims, they keep their comments to griping online like a little bitch.
Which, in evaluation, was the greater tragedy?
wh*Te subhumans deserve to die
in 1453 we slained wh*Te subhumans
in 1492 BLACKs got slained.
so 1492 is a tragedy
1492 was the best year in iberian history.
He has a beautiful voice desu.
That video made me cry
One day we will drag wh*Te subhumans' bodies like dead dogs in their streets and take back what belongs to us...
>Which, in evaluation, was the greater tragedy?
The destruction of my native culture by the sp*Niards. Never forget.
>tfw on all levels except physical I am a traditional Aztec warrior
1453 led to the Renaissance in Italy so it wasn't all that bad desu. Can't think of anything good about 1492 other than the kebab being removed
He thinks being a murderous degenerate is alpha.
yes rennaisance and the conquest of the world by christian , tanks to turk that block access to indian trade . We should tanks turk to have allow christian to evangelise north and south america and south africa and oceania. I start to think that turk are secretly christian.
>wh*te cucks mad everyone isn't a self hating cuck like themselves
Do you expect Muslims to cry about their victories and praise their losses?
I got bad news for you. The native culture destroyers live amongst you. They are the Perez,Ortiz, Garcia... What's to say you're not one. My ancestors had the good graces to stay at home.
>descendants of conquistadors blame conquest on us, people whos ancestors stayed home
really gets those neurons firing.
Inbred m*slim subhuman goat fuckers cry about being defeated by anti-colonialists in Iberia and then gloat about their conquest, genocide, rape and enslavement of the Balkans, Armenians, Assyrians, etc. All Muslims deserve death, as do their apologists.
>Muslims came to Spain in 711
Lmao they just completely gloss over how they came to power, eh?
The modern Mexican identity was manufactured following the collapse of Emperor Maximilian. The whole idea of Mexican ='ing indigenous person was non-existent prior to that.
/pol/ go away
doos voolt
...
Based Castillians removing the last bastion of Mohametian degeneracy in western Europe and launching the north African crusade against the T*rks and their pirate paws is the most pure act of goodness in the history of mankind.Godspeed Doña Isabel I de Castilla,Leon,Galicia,Toledo,Jaen,Murcia,Sevilla,Cordoba,Granada and the west indies.The most pure and good human being in the history of mankind since the virgin Mary
Why did the Turks never achieve anything of note culturally or technologically?
Chinks had gunpowder, paper, compass etc.
Europeans had mechanical engineering, optics etc.
Turks just sort of... didn't do anything of any note scientifically, technologically or
In before "YEAH BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS ONE PIECE OF TRIVIA?"
Is it really comparable to Newton founding modern Physics? Or Darwin?
It just surprises me because they had enormous wealth and manpower and absolutely nothing came from it. Not even a Shakespeare or a Tolstoy.
Remember most of their industry was run by non-Turks as well. "Turkish" rugs in Izmir and Istanbul were primarily crafted and exported by Greek craftsmen and merchants. Even raki originated in Christian drinking establishments.
There is literally nothing T*rks created.
based turkposter
Andulasians and North Africans aren't black, idiot
Most ottoman literature is poetry extolling either the sultans or islam so it makes sense it never took off in the west
and academies in the western mold were unpopular with the janissary/ulema factions
This picture is basically /pol/
so basically ottoman literature was just basically either idolatry and idolatry? pretty slim variety of lit, considering the amount of wealth they could've poured into the arts
I mean really well defined literature only really comes about during the 18th century, by which time the ottomans had taken a decidedly conservative bent in their relationship with Europe
True, Islam is still cancer.
> beautiful garden bed of western values spreads throughout the world
> dark evil cancer trying to devour the globe
REMOVE
Coffee houses i guess. Sure coffee beans came from Southern arabia or Africa but coffee as a drink was popularized by the Ottomans when it was passed on to europe
>if your culture and religion was still alive today it would be ten times more hated and dispised than christianity
you are welcome
We don't infiltrate m*slim societies and make them feel bad about it tho
al-andalus was a shitty civilisation, nothing of value was lost
Interesting how one preceded the other, eh?
Almost as though we learned how to act like thugs from someone.
>imperialism hasn't been part of society forever
Then they'll be the ones crying and singing. DON'T YOU GET IT, MAN?
>MUH WESTERN VALUES MUH MUH MUH MUH RAILROADS IN INDIA MUH MUH MUH MUH MUH MUH MUH
>His Fat Indian Hands Can't Slide Off The Shift Key
>being this new
>one preceded the other
>implying colonial powers followed directly by their example for whatever fucking reason
>implying that still excuses colonial atrocities even if it were true
is this seriously the power of Veeky Forums
>Society never changes or develops, nor does imperialism
>Columbus didn't sail west to find new routes to areas blocked off by the Ottomans
>Conquistadors didn't cut their teeth fighting against the descendants of Islamic conquerors
I could go on and on and on.
Anyway, the image is dumb, because /pol/ isn't making a statement of universal morality. European imperialism is 'their side' doing well, and the Muslims are 'the enemy', so of course they are going to think one is good and the other is bad. They aren't judging it from an abstracted standpoint.
Muslims don't even claim that. Only leftards who think Granada was a le multicultural progressive wonderland push that bullshit so they can pretend Muslims are anything other than warmongering conquerers. It's called the REconquista for a reason.
Kind of funny, though, that Constantniople fell to the Muslims within a few decades of Granada falling to the Christians.
Columbus sailed west decades before the ottomans controlled Syria
please go back to /r/the_donald.
We don't do muh western value circle-jerks here, brainlet
Why do Mexicans LARP as Aztecs even though they're mostly Spaniards? It'd be like if Australians started claiming to be Abos, when they're mostly Anglo-Celtic.
>only redditors hate Islam
Lmao, got some bad news for you. Half of Europe literally wants to ban Muslims from moving there.
I can tell you're an American minor just by reading that comment
> Romans take over
> everyone wants to be like them
> Muslims try to take over
> everyone wants to erradicate them from the face of the planet for generations afterwards, still to this day
Wew, edgy mate.
>implying colonial powers...
Some of them did. Brutalisation is a reality, not every period is as violent as every other period.
The Spanish had been fighting 'the heathen' at home for centuries, you expect them to be nice and friendly?
Do you think its coincidental that the French were so brutal in Algeria, whose people had been raiding their Southern coast for hundreds of years?
The whole of Christendom was still reeling from the shock of Constantinople falling by the time Columbus reached America, there was a conscious feeling of competition with the Islamic world, one in which the Christians perceived themselves to be losing.
>implying that still excuses colonial atrocities even if it were true
I'm not trying to excuse anything, because I don't care. Ottoman colonial atrocities to you are expressed by some other, more sanitary phrase - likewise the colonial atrocities of the Ummayads and their successors in Spain are just how things were done back then.
You're really, really stretching it
>maritime routes pass through Ottoman territory
>Syria still in Muslim hands
Tariffs are the same either way m80.
The Silk Road had been under Muslim control for centuries
You could just admit that Europeans do things for reasons that aren't 'trying to get away from Islam' but whatever
Thanks for that contribution, but I'll wait until someone carries a judgement to term rather than aborting it in the first trimester.
You didn't know when the ottomans gained control of Syria, so you definitely don't seem to be particularly knowledgeable about the period
I never said Islam wasn't bad. But can you PLEASE stop LARPing as some EPIC CHRTISTIAN WESTERN VALUE WHITE LEGIONAIRE AGAINST THE MUSLIM FILTH!!!111!
because it's seriously fucking annoying
>get btfo and kicked out of Iberia
>flee to some north african/ottoman shitholes
>be shitty there for 600 years
>current year
>retard Europeans invite your people back to replace themselves
Didn't see it coming tbqhwyf
>what is Trebizond?
You could just admit that Islamic imperialism was a major cause of European imperialism but, like, totally whatever, dude. Radically tubular, bro!
Trebizond was an unimportant post on the Black Sea shore
Like I said, stretching it
You didn't know that Trebizond was a major Silk Road entrepot connected to Constantinople, which was itself connected to Venice, so I'll fire that one right back at you, slugger! :)
It wasn't, you retard
The Silk Road passed through Islamic lands
>Trebizond was an unimportant post
Until Hulegu sacked Baghdad and drove trade North to the Black Sea.
Like I said, you have half-formed, fetal posts of a sentence or two.
If I'm wrong, tell me why.
Why hasn't Spain banned Islam?! WTF?!
The ilkhanate reinvigorated trade during the late 13th and 14th century
Source, Janet abu-lughod's work on trade routes under the mongols
>old tired worn out medieval fiefs clinging to some long lost dream becoming integral elements of a thriving empire
It had to happen. Reddit, leftypol and byzaboos probably have some naive dream of them being left alone for centuries, in reality they would be a source of instability and strife and the people living there would suffer more, civilization would be denied Istanbul and the Andalusians. So, it had to happen.
>The ilkhanate reinvigorated trade
By which routes?
After 1261 the Black Sea trade became much more important to the Italian merchants active in the Eastern Med, and both the Caffa and Trebizond routes were intimately linked to Constantinople.
Source: Ciocîltan, The Mongols and the Black Sea Trade,13th-14th Centuries
The Persian routes
And the route passing through Tabriz was connected to Trebizond, m8.
And to the Syrian coast, and Constantinople.
Unless you're telling me that the christians found it so odious to trade with muslims (which they'd been doing for ages) all of the sudden, you don't have much of a point
I'm not, you just think everyone who differs Islamic imperialism/culture from Western imperialism/culture is some Deus Vult faggot. You're seeing scarecrows in the windows mate.
I'm not Christian, I'm not alt-right, I was raised Catholic, turned Daoist, hate western imperialism but value the intellectual history it spread to the world. Stop trying to categorize people just for the sake of getting your blood pressure up.
>the christians
The Italian merchants. The Syrian coastal route was dominated by Venice, hence why they took Crete. They were the ones who did the trading.
The Muslims could afford to be selective, they chose which Christians they traded with.
Buying from the Italians meant extra fees on top of those the Ottomans exacted.
And that was a model that had existed for quite some time.
It's a fact mate
independent.co.uk
Same goes for the US and Australia.
abc.net.au
Anti-Islam is hardly an uncommon opinion nowadays.
BAN ISLAM IN SPAIN NOW!!
What are some good books on medieval trade, especially areas like this plus Mediterranean? You both seem to have some background here. I'm only familiar with Bronze age and iron age trade/maritime history. I want to expand my horizons.
I am aware that Islam is bad. I'm just getting really tired of the whole "muh western values" circle-jerk.
Oh, nevermind then.
Completely misunderstood your comment.
Early Islam was full Greekaboo though.
The Ottomans were a shit-tier "fuck-hueg" empire that barely did anything other than go into pissing matches with Habsburgs for the irrelavant Balkans or Russia for Caucasus. The Arabs still hate the Ottomans and view them as a source of retardation for the Islamic world much like the Balkanites view it just the same for missing out Renaissance +enlightenment.
The Arabs during medieval times (900-1400) were the golden age of Islamic civilization because the variation in ideas at the time, the feudal and princely morality and way of life, urbanism ,cosmopolitanism, and free movement of ideas.
The Islamic world stopped being a competitor to the west after the battle of Vienna. After that they were seen as a far off oriental civilization and with some fascination and curiosity. During the advent of romanticism in the 19th century, many even saw the Islamic orient as a model to mimicked. Colonialism actually happened because of economic reasons and geopolitical competition. Look up the french administrator of Morocco, Hubert Lyautey, he actually completely rejected the civilizing mission of french colonialism and wanted to protect the indigenous customs, tradition and religion because he was an "araboo".
That's a great voice though
Another quality thread on Veeky Forums.
Oh but we can't complain about /pol/ because for some reason leftypol is way worse.
Renaissance in Italy had already started by two generations
Why would 1492 be a tragedy?
lparlaprlparlarplarlapralrpalrpalrprlprlarp?
lparplarplarlparlapraplrap?
If you like /pol/ so much, you can fuck off back there. You fucking woman
The good guys always win baby ;)))
Native Americans were some pretty metal motherfuckers but the Aztecs got turned on by other tribes because they were batshit insane and cruel to the other tribes around them.
Your neighbours are just as much to blame as the Spaniards.
The fall of Granada and the end of muslims kingdoms in iberia after 800 years
Awesome performance a shame the text is a collection of lies and propaganda
jesus christ your dumb, like jesus help you
constaninople was connected to the silk road
And the silk road passed through Islamic lands you absolute retard
this
gib tenochilan back
Fernand Braudel has several volumes of books on Mediterranean and early modern economics.
>Why did the Turks never achieve anything of note culturally or technologically?
are you kidding me? turkish culture was so influential in europe at one point that some europeans became "turkaboos". turkish influence can be seen on anything from marching bands to cafes and to military systems in european culture.
look up "Turquerie" on google ya ignorant wh*tey
I'll look into that, thanks m8
Al-Andalus wasn't some multicultural paradise, the Almoravids and Almohads were back to basics fundamentalist Islamic movements who weren't particularly accommodating to kufirs.
Their Umayyad predecessors weren't all that pleasant either, it took the Merovingians a good 40 years to gouge them out of Narbonne and the South of France. Thank God for Charles Martel.
f
Both were becoming more and more degenerate
sadly when you see the result today ,
All nations are accommodating hosts whilst there's money to be made from cheap labour.
The good times never last though.
>Turquerie an european fashion is the greatest achievement of the ottoman empire.
Wow what a great empire people looking for exotic bed and painting, thank you for the shaping of the world, what could we have done without shitty carpet.
I think you're forgetting the most important invention in human history.