How did Russia go from a dirt poor nation to world leading power, was socialism really a failure of an economic system?

How did Russia go from a dirt poor nation to world leading power, was socialism really a failure of an economic system?
If the USSR was still present today, would things be better or worse for Ukraine? (from an economic standpoint not a political one)

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They were still poor opressive shithole. It just so happens that it was more industralized opressive shithole.

anyone has that image that compares the soviet union + warsaw pact vs eastern europe GDP

>check out these charts

...

>How did Russia go from a world power to a world power with 60 million dead

Fuck off back to leftypol, commie

Russian Empire was not a dirt poor nation.

oh i am laffin

Forced labor, ethnic cleansing, concentration camps, etc

under the guise of socialism, actually they're communist not socialists.

fpbp

anything can work, look at north korea

socialism failed on political level

>government seizes everything and puts money in industrialization

Wow so much steel. So many factories.
Meanwhile the population is still dirt poor and the debt rises.

>fpbp
You mean "first post by /pol/?

Are you denying they were oppressive shithole?

Ever met someone who lived in the former communist-controlled area?

Nigga stop being such a tankie. If you're a leftist you need to recognize that the USSR was a major fuck up after Lenin.

AFTER Lenin? Lenin's Bolshevism was the most creepy cultist version of communist International that actually came close to spreading over Europe.

The Soviet Union was doing great until the stagnation of the 1970s.

To say nothing of Cheka, War Communism, Collectivisation, and crushing of various rebellions.

Peope of the Soviet Union were doing horribly and the entire period after WWII was a slow agonizing death of this prison of nations.

>Russian Empire was a dirt poor nation, every peasant was a serf until bolsheviks liberated them
Things tankie brainlets believe

Living standard were rising steadily through the 50s and 60s. Don't get your historical information out of memes.

>60 million dead
>doing great

Do the maths and tell me what birthrate the USSR needs to have had to sustain the death tolls you cite.

I know way too well what communism means. That USSR had more resources to waste in their planned economy system and therefore Soviet citizens had it somewhat better than African nations living under communist dictators doesn't mean that the system was in any way good.
And the country was still dying. It was just a matter of time thankfully.

In a sense Russia has always been a both a world super power and a dirt poor nation, both before, during, and after USSR

At the start of the 20th century the industrialization was kicking in. It's normal that workers' protests and socialist ideas are the unfortunate byproducts of that. If it wasn't for inept tsar and Bolsheviks this could've been a relatively normal country today.

Maddison puts Soviet GDP/capita in 1975 at one half that of the USA. If that's merely "somewhat better" than African nations to you, you have an odd view of the world.

Relatively stable for its economic system. Meaning it still collapsed anyway and the country would've been a hundred times better off without it.

>It's a "leftypol tries to use holocaust denial arguments to deny communist genocides" episode

Not an argument.

>60 million

A lot of people who lived there actually prefer the old days.

Only the parasites that don't get the gibs anymore.

...

Communism was legitimately great at turning an agrarian society into an industrial one. Once it switched out of that phase is that problems started piling up.

Wow Soviet Union didnt had a lot of US dollars

Incredible..

^this
Only the most useless and brain dead reminisce about "the good old days".

You can spot them from a mile away, always with a confused look on their face, petty, ignorant, lazy, unnecessary cruel.
Always voting for the same party that makes them poorer just because they are promised gibs.

They are prime examples of the lowest form that humanity can devolve to.

But please user, educate us E.Europeans from your cushy western life on how great communism is.

+the ex-nomenklatura
if only to further the gap at the expense of said retards

Stay triggered leftycuck

t. little shit who never worked a day in his life

there was no welfare there

you are a retard aswell living on stories of your butthurt kulak grandpa

Russia couldn't become any worse

Shut the fuck up amerishit.

>muh pol

Ukraine wouldn't be the prostitution capital of yurop if the USSR was still around thats for sure

Nostalgia is one hell of a drug, also that just implies the successor state is worse, not that the Soviet times were actually good by our standards.

People keep saying that, and yet somehow it always does

This is about as far from the truth as you could've possibly have gotten. The SU's industrial growth was certainly impressive considering it achieved comparable results to the US in the 1890's in the 1930's without the benefit of an open, global economy.

But you're totally fucking ignoring the liberties gained by the population after the authoritarian effort that was required for the above achievement. After the 50's the economy grew at an average annual rate of twice the US. Living standards grew, people could actually travel outside of their region, no forcible deportations this time. Affordable healthcare and housing. It was a somewhat dull life, the state was everywhere. But it was a living, not the hell-on-earth dystopia or the economic "collapse" fascists like to portray it as.

Ukraine is doing far worqe today than back in the USSR, how did they screw up so badly, even georgia is improving

>those numbers

>everyone who is not a full-blown communist must be /pol/ boogeyman

>r-rightwingers are NEETs!

imagine unnironicaly comparing socialist states with capitalist states using GNP and GDP

>the unemployed and those who can't afford houses
I have no idea how economic hardship could drive anyone to retardedly extremist outlooks, i simply have no idea.

Also, Protestors piss on hard working police, the daily mail is a ethically bankrupt rag.

NO ROTH.....

>How did Russia go from a dirt poor nation to world leading power, was socialism really a failure of an economic system?
Yes, but the feudalism that the Russian Empire ran on was worse in pretty much every way.

state control of the economy definitely allowed the soviet union to industrialize much, much faster than other countries, but it came at a price (the famines)

Russian empire was already industrializing and modernizing at a rapid rate ever since Alexander III, Stalin just continued those efforts, he didn't create them.

Millions of state owned slaves or 'slavs' as they called them make industry very efficient and profitable

This shithole needs a board for the mentally disabled holy shit.

NO ROTHSCHI..............

He is right though.
Tsarist Russia had improving social indicators all across the board, growing industry across all sectors (iron, steel, electrification, railroads, etc) and was the #1 exporter of wheat in the world.

In fact the Communists' collectivization so thoroughly destroyed Russia's agriculture that it turned into a net importer, allowing the rise of the "Big Four Wheat Exporters" (Canada, Argentina, Australia, USA) to occupy the market niche that Russia had left empty.

t. uneducated retard

>mfw between the poverty stricken year of 1924, when Lenin died, and the relatively abundant year of 1940, the cultivated area of USSR expanded by 74 percent; grain crops increased 11 percent; coal production was multiplied by 10; steel output by 18; engineering and metal industries by 150; total national income by 10; industrial output by 24; annual capital investment by 57. During the First Five-year Plan, 51 billion rubles were invested; during the Second, 114; and during the Third, 192. Factory and office workers grew from 7,300,000 to 30,800,000 and school and college students from 7,900,000 to 36,600,000. Between 1913 and 1940, oil production increased from nine to 35 million tons; coal from 29 to 164; pig iron from 4 to 15; steel from 4 to 18; machine tools from 1000 to 48,000 units, tractors from 0 to over 500,000; harvestor combines from 0 to 153,500; electrical power output from two billion kWh to 50 billion; and the value of industrial output from 11 billion rubles to more than 100 billion by 1938. If the estimated volume of total industrial production in 1913 be taken as 100, the corresponding indices for 1938 are 93.2 for France; 113.3 for England, 120 United States; 131.6 for Germany, and 908.8 for the Soviet Union.

Schuman, Frederick L. Soviet Politics. New York: A.A. Knopf, 1946, p. 212

Why do anti-commies keep posting a graph that presents a very positive picture of communism?

NO ROTHSCHILD.....

17% literacy. Zero access to even basic healthcare for over 90% of the population. Rampant feudal landlordism. Zero effort was made to educate the rural population. No electricity or indoor plumbing for 90% of the population.

He was talking about industrialization not about healthcare and shit.

le 90s kids

The graph pretty much refutes the Russian empire refused to industrialize meme. Not even modern China was growin as much as Russia was back then, and Stalin simply continued those efforts. Do you know why Germans planned to start the war exactly when they did? Because they saw the rapid industrialization of Russia and wanted to strike before they could reach western degree of production.

Exactly this. I was having a chat with some old fuck like a decade ago and he kept remembering socialism with immense nostalgia, how he could go to work and basically just dick around all day and then have a beer or two or three with collegueas in the middle of the work day and the boss didn't even care, and how "we youngsters" have no idea how good they had it back then. Pretty much bragging about being allowed to be a lazy slacker while the economy was drowning in debt due to low productivity and high spending.

sounds great tbqh, get the stick out of your ass

Reminder that "dirt-poor" backwards Russia occupied Paris in the 19th century.
You now realize that all the European Great Powers were "dirt-poor" when compared to the United States, that all their common people lived like dogs and the Bolsheviks hindered the advancement of Russia more than they contributed to it squandering it's resources on a pointless war with the Nazis (who would not exist if not for the Bolsheviks) and pointless counterproducive "great works" like draining the Aral Sea and planting toxic Hogweed across Eastern Europe.

Industrialization doesn't mean jack shit if it doesn't benefit the working masses.

Bangladesh for example has plenty of factories, but the people who work in those factories live lives of total misery.

Stalin didn't just "industrialize" the country. That industrialization benefited not a small group of capitalist, but the entire society - dramatically improving literacy, living standards, access to healthcare, infrastructure, life expectancy, access to secondary and higher education, etc etc etc.

Lazy shits like him are the reason why our country started lagging behind the west so hard we still haven't fully caught up even 28 years after communism. Literally an entire economy geared towards NEETs who pretend to work and being fed, clothed and babied by the government like little kids.

Hope you enjoy slaving your life away for people who you've never seen and whose names you've never heard of.

Which country?

>Industrialization doesn't mean jack shit if it doesn't benefit the working masses.
Who cares about the working masses, those were starving to death during USSR anyway. But without industrializing, USSR would never win WW2.

>Bangladesh for example has plenty of factories, but the people who work in those factories live lives of total misery.
and the people sent to Siberia were doing what exactly?

Czechoslovakia.

>another NEET chiming in

>sounds great
Communists really are fucking scum.

They're literally just parasites daydreaming about having their leisure subsidized by the government, that's the entire reason they favor communism.

sorry i don't want to be a slave

>Stalin didn't just "industrialize" the country. That industrialization benefited not a small group of capitalist, but the entire society - dramatically improving literacy, living standards, access to healthcare, infrastructure, life expectancy, access to secondary and higher education, etc etc etc.

so basically stalin was an authoritarian socdem

> those were starving to death during USSR anyway.
lmao

Sounds like you guys are just a lazy race of people. In Stalin's USSR, not working was actually a punishable crime. In North Korea, lazy people are sent to forced labor camps.

In contrast, most capitalists don't work at all, instead living off inherited wealth or the labor of others. Most feudal aristocrats work even less than capitalists.

NO ROTHSCHILD BA........

Go away with your stupid /pol/ tier propaganda tankie.

Would you rather live in 1980s Canada or the 1980s Soviet Union? One is the result of natural capitalist industrialization and social democratic policies. The other is the result of communist """industrialization""" at the cost of millions of human lives.

Tsarist Russia, allowed to evolve, democratize and reform naturally, would have resembled the former more than the latter.

>Sounds like you guys are just a lazy race of people.
>productivity just magically evaporated during communism and then magically skyrocketed back when communism ended
Communism breeds laziness in people and functions as an obstacle to creativity and individual success.
>Most feudal aristocrats work even less than capitalists
So I see the supporters of communism all wish to live like feudal lords, do dick all and just consume. Sorry but a society cannot function when everyone lives like that.

>Sorry but a society cannot function when everyone lives like that.
with modern technology it can tho. that's the whole point of socialism.

>with modern technology
No until we reach post scarcity levels.

>muh dreamworld science fiction robot utopia will allow me to live like a NEET comfortably
Most fedora tier ideology ever conceived

>Would you rather live in 1980s Canada or the 1980s Soviet Union?
I would rather live in 2017 DPRK. Sadly, the Trump regime has made it illegal for US citizens to travel to the country - thus violating the UN charter of human rights, which includes the freedom of movement.

well we don't really need 'post-scarcity' because the point isn't necessarily to make it so nobody has to work at all, it's just to make it so that everybody has to work much less. like a 20 hour workweek or something would be doable with current technology.

kek

Most other Czechs disagree with your pathetic cuck slave mentality.

jobspin.cz/2016/07/communist-nostalgia-in-the-czech-republic/

49% thinks that there are less job opportunities these days.

53% considers themselves physically less secure.

61% liked security of social contributions in the old system more than the current one.

According to Čulík, the result of the research of his students was: Their parents, reluctantly, told them: “They had not experienced any political oppression under communism. They did not mind that there was censorship; they did not miss an open, intellectual discourse and did not mind that the public arena was clogged by communist ideology. Unlike today, they had security of employment and enough money. The only thing they did not like was that they could not travel abroad under communism – they had to apply for permission to communist officials and it was usually denied. But they cannot travel abroad now anyway because they do not have enough money to do so.”

Oh hey its the DPRK fag. Larp more faggot

The graph shows that the Soviets managed a somewhat higher growth rate despite the fact that GDP/capita quadrupled, and we'd expect growth to slow down.

Ok kim