If Jesus and the first Christians were Jews

It was mentioned in a thread here just this week.

oh, can you link me to it? I haven't lurked a lot here this week and might have missed it

Unfortunately I'm drawing completely blank on what the thread was about.

Jesus and his followers didn't believe in a decent chunk of that either, Christian doctrine developed over centuries among goyim (mostly Greeks and Romans) influenced by Hellenistic culture and a bunch of other local stuff.

That and Second Temple Judaism wasn't quite the same as the kind we have today, not all Jews at the time believed exactly the doctrines the rabbis preserved and elaborated on.

>Why is Christianity so different from Judaism?

Because Christianity is bipolar due to cramming all those documents together and stamping "100% Certified Word of God Cause IDK LOLZ" on it.

At least Judaism only has to focus on hate, denial of the reality of the gods, and racial supremacy - Christianity has all the New Testament stuff which makes it extra confused.

youtube.com/watch?v=HIcIIBTJA6o

Well, I can say one thing and that is pre-exilic Israel is my interest, I've read multiple books on the subject of Asherah and Yahweh being a divine couple though much problem is that there is a divided consensus due to contradictory. I will make a short list why the official divine consort of Yahweh and Asherah is not founded and not convincing (the local level would have obviously had it but I'm more or less talking about the bible and the official position of pre-exilic Yahwehism)

1. Lack of asherah theophany elements in Israelite names both from the Bible and archeology
2. Asherah worship was already in massive decline by the 10th century (not too convincing as Asherah is still present in the biblical narratives).
3. The text of Yahweh and his Asherah does not equal a divine consort, since Asherah means 'pole' in Hebrew
4. Evidence of the Asherah poles in most parts were likely Yahweh shrine's which were used for divination, this is found in 2 Samuel 15:7, in which the promise of Yahweh at Hebron is made presupposing a shrine of some sort.

WE

If Thomas Jefferson and the first Americans were British...

Why is America so different from Britain?

>No Monarchy
>Pants aren't underwear
>Not an island
>Pronounce words differently
>Written Constitution

It's almost as though things that share an ancestor might develop differently. HMMMMMMMMMMMM..... that NEVER happens in history or the humanities. HMMMMMMMMMMMhurrvotetrumppostfrogcartoonMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

The fact that all these ideas were formalized (although, not finalized) by the end of the first century, is proof the Jesus was God. No Jew would've accepted the Trinity in a thousand years, unless it were revealed by God.

Hellenistic influence. To be fair, modern Judaism is also very much influenced by Hellenistic philosophy (ie: kabbalah)

>Virgin Birth
Jews argue that it comes from a mistranslation of Isaiah 7:14, that the word "almah" really means "young woman."

"Young woman" in that context was implying virginity

I feel like there should really be a distinction when discussing general Christianity and Catholicism.

But if the virgin birth is true, then that pretty much negates that he was the messiah:

>The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (see Genesis 49:10, Isaiah 11:1, Jeremiah 23:5, 33:17; Ezekiel 34:23-24). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father – and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David.

good post

Marcion following the apostle Paul teachings has presented the true canon

Jesus is not the Messiah of the Jews
that concept was introduced to win over Jewish converts

cultures usually change over time and as Christianity grew it adopted a lot of European traits into it. Paul was also a self-hating semite

Because Christianity is founded by Paul who was most likely not Jewish at all, seeing as how lied about his origins.

It has far more common than Christianity; the conservative and Hassedic branches are pretty similar. Fucking Islam has more in common with Judaism than Christianity.

>Why is Christianity so different from Judaism?
Is it?
What if I told you that "Judaism" does not predate Christianity, and that both Christianity and Judaism are offshoots of the older and now extinct temple traditions of the ancient Hebrews?

It depends how you define Judaism and the old temple tradition.

I think a decent defination of Judaism is an ethnocentric exclusive worship of Yahweh, the chief value of the religion being the primacy of the Jewish people.

With that definition Judaism is definitely pretty old. It's became monotheists around 800-600 BCE and seems to have always been ethnocentric.

The chief values of their religion are the rules set-down by their god not "the primacy of the Jewish people". The Jewish people have always been of lower priority as demonstrated by the numerous examples in their religion of the Jewish people being punished by god for violating his laws.

You can use that same logic to say that "Christianity" no longer exists, and only survives in its offshoots like Eastern Orthodoxy, Catholicism, Lutheranism, Methodism, etc.

The Jewish people obey the laws of Yahweh so that he'll make them "a mighty nation".

Each one of these topics is huge. So I'll just try to tackle Hell. As I understand it, the Jewish view of hell is that it is the physical location of the Valley of Hinnom. According to the OT, it was in that valley that several kings of Israel made sacrifices of their own children by fire to gain the favor of the Canaanite god Moloch. Jewish references to hell are I think references to the living spiritual state of individuals who commit such terrible acts.

The Christian view of Hell is entirely dependent upon human interpretation of what Jesus said in the gospels. If you interpret that he was speaking spiritually rather than literally, then the idea of hell as a living mental state should be in accord with the Jewish interpretation. But if the statement is taken literally, then it is something different.

It should also be noted that Jesus specifically says in the gospel that people simply sleep after they die. There is also no mention of a soul. Rather the biblical interpretation is that humans are animated by the breath of God. This is attested to in Genesis and again by Elijah. In both breathing rituals, possibly early CPR, bring life. Furthermore, according to the bible people are supposed to be dead until the last days when they will all be raised from the dead and judged by Christ.

The idea of a soul and the immediate journey to Heaven or Hell after death comes from Greek influence.

All of the rules layed down by the God are just there to advance the Jews and preserve their identity.

All those weird laws about not being allowed to wear mixed fabric or eat certain foods in combination were designed to make it impossible for rival cultures to assimilete them. I remember a professor saying the rules basically made it so they can't even sit at the same table as gentiles. They can only eat with other Jews unless they want to break one o Yaweheh's weird food laws. They also can't buy their clothes from gentiles because the gentiles don't make special rules about the fabrics of their robes.

The whole of the Old Testament is Jewish supremacy in one form or another.

Basically this. Yawheh makes a contract with the Jews. The contract stipulates that they must worship him exclusively and obey his weird laws. In exchange he will help them develop.

No, Christianity still exists. The mere existence of heretical cults springing up in its aftermath just means that many more people will burn in hell.

Heaven is going to be a really lonely place....

He lied about being a Pharisee named Saul?

He definitely wasn't a Pharisee. He says that he was charged by the high temple priests to hunt down heretics and he was given the power to arrest by the Roman government.

First of all the high temple priests he is talking about are Saudecee. No Pharisee would talk about them like they are authority, to a Pharisee they are heretics. It would be like if someone claimed to be a Lutherian priest in the 1600s and said that they were taking orders from the Pope.

Second there is no record of Sadducee priests being given such political power by Rome nor any reason they would do such madness.

He also demonstrates that he lacks a knowledge of even the most basic of Jewish principles and this poor thought is all of the New Testament.

In short not only was Paul lying about being a Pharisee he probably was lying about being Jewish at all. His entire fucking identity is a lie. That's why he had to preach to the gentiles because even the Jewish children could probably tell he was a con. The gentiles didn't know jack shit about Judaism so they just took everything he said at face value.

Supposedly James called him a fraud to his face and forced him publically denounce all his teachings as heresy. The antisemitism in the New Testament is probably all a huge reaction to that humiliating moment.

>The antisemitism in the New Testament
>huge reaction to that humiliating moment

oy vey

If you are discussing Christianity in the West before 1517 then you are discussing Catholicism.

Early Christianity was not Catholic. The only place that idea is taught is in Catholic theological circles.

Everywhere else it's acknowledged that early Christianity was a mix of many different splinters with concepts such as Catholicism coming up hundreds of years later.

>Why is "fanfiction" so different from "original story"™©℗
Gee I dunno op. might have something to do with the authors/architects being vastly different, and the newer author/architect being only vaguely interested in some points the older one made.

How to put it in simple words.. Christianity was first like a counter-Judaism ish.. There is a picture explaining it all but I didn't save it.

History proves you wong though.

>>Trinity
>>Hell

>Jews don't believe in any of the above.

They did but they changed it as a reactionary knee-jerk to Christianity.

There were early Christian sects that didn't believe in those either.