Every alt-right youtuber and everyone on /pol/ tells me how evil Islam is

For its time, it was a fairly tolerant religion because pre-Islam ME was 100x more barbaric.

Because they hate you. There is nothing objectively wrong with it except they are not us, and there will be inevitable culture clashes

>Dark ages meme
>Thinks anyone will take him seriously
Why do people who don't know what they're talking about post on Veeky Forums?

>Persians were more barbaric than Arabs

>The true reason why the alt-right hates Islam is because muh white heritage
That's the justification. The reason is because the Israeli far-right has for decades spread a narrative throughout Western far-right circles designed to counteract growing sympathies for Palestine.

The intellectualism of pre 1000's is dogshit today though.
High schoolers of our time know chemistry.

Don't forget having to sell your first born son if you piss off the wrong person or can't pay the jizya , then get your hands cut off if you steal something

Because the holy book of Islam literally orders Muslims to do things like this (graphic):
liveleak.com/view?i=ebe_1418914796
liveleak.com/view?i=6db_1328049785

Damn fucking hankyheads how am I going to steal people's bikes now?

Doesn't matter, OP is a fag so they are just going to throw him off a building

That's what he probably looked like, don't act like we know what he looked like.

Actually I think the reason the alt right hates Islam is because they don't like ethnic and religious conflict being invited into their countries.

I wonder if anyone ITT will actually know what they are talking about. You realize that both Hitler and Evola idolized Islam and the far-right does as well? There are fags from Iron March forums and different brands of skin heads who convert to it ffs. The other side of the far right dislikes Islam because of the tacitly implied ethnic conflict it brings because Arabs aren't vet open about converting non-arabs into the religion and this is actually a point of contention between Arab and non Arab Muslims

T. Wehraboo boogeyman no one actually understands on this board

>Early Islam

There's your problem.

quran.com/2/191-201
quran.com/47/4-14
quran.com/8/12-22
quran.com/9/29-39
quran.com/9/5-15
quran.com/2/217-227
quran.com/4/34-44

Its a sloppy explanation I'll admit,
but the collapse of the roman empire was a major downturn for Europe.
If Rome held together and kept developing, its unlikely the Arabs would've ever caught up.

>Haha let me quote scripture as if anyone actually follows it word by word, that'll show them!!
user, if Islamic countries like saudi arabia followed the quran literally they wouldn't even be able to deal with inflation due to Islamic financial laws.

>>Conversion by the sword
That wasn't a thing during the Arab conquests. The MO was conquer, collect tribute, and let things go on as usual. If anything, they enjoyed the jizya tax revenue they were collecting so there was no motive for them to forcibly convert anyone.

>Mass enslavement
>Raping of Europeans
You can't really attribute that to Islam. If you do, then we should attribute all of the sins the Europeans did (slavery, colonialism, genocide) to Christianity.

>Comparing moral tenants of Islam to the economic
If Christian countries practiced the economic teachings of the Bible then usury would still be banned as well. Islam is the religion of the conquerer , these are it's moral tenants.

Anything else is a kafir

He's probably a fedora, maybe we should attribute communist and capitalist mass deaths to atheism, thats more like it

So what do you think is the reason why millions of radicals in ISIS, HTS or the Taliban do their cruel business?
Strange that they all are Muslim, isn't it?

You were exempt from paying Jizya if you couldn't afford it and it wasn't anymore than what the people were paying their previous rulers anyway.

>Muslim jurists required adult, free, sane males among the dhimma community to pay the jizya,[4] while exempting women, children, elders, handicapped, the ill, the insane, monks, hermits, slaves,[5][6][7][8][9] and musta'mins—non-Muslim foreigners who only temporarily reside in Muslim lands.[5][10] Dhimmis who chose to join military service were exempted from payment,[1][6][11][12][13] as were those who could not afford to pay.[6][14][15]

>The Quran and hadiths mention jizya without specifying its rate or amount.[16] However, scholars largely agree that early Muslim rulers adapted existing systems of taxation and tribute that were established under previous rulers of the conquered lands, such as those of the Byzantine and Sasanian empires.[10][17][18][19][20]

This "follow the scripture or your a kaffir" meme is only meant to dehumanize muslims by assuming that every single one of them must automatically want to fuck 8 years olds, believe it or not, most muslims do not follow their religion word by word, and if I was to play devils advocate here, even if Islam was meant as a religion of conquest, it sure was far better than most of what other empires stood for

>That wasn't a thing during the Arab conquests
Ebin. How much cool aid did they give in exact milliliters?
>Because slavery, genocide and colonialism under Christianity was at all the same as that of Islam
Christian colonialism was as bad as slaves and natives accidently dying of diseases and being given corporal punishment. There were no concubines, male slaves were not castrated or outright murdered on massive treks through the deserts, and unlike the Islamic world, slavery was outlawed earlier that the 1950's. Christians and Europeans came nowhere near the amount of brutality and sheer amount of enslavement that the Islamic world did Slavery in the Middle East is still a thing, it wasn't outlawed in Mauritania until the 1960's then was abolished. In fact, Slavery is still quasi practiced in most Islamic countries

It's *still* a problem there

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_military_jurisprudence

I fail to see how bombing civilians is acceptable by Islamic sharia law, maybe they are not following islamic law after all?

>Wikipedia
>Probably doesn't even know what a janissary is

IIRC After Iran went Muslim, the ruling population would often delight in bullying their now disenfranchised Zoroastrian subjects. One way was to kill and beat dogs in public (a species which the Zoroastrians revered, but Muslims believed was unclean); knowing full well the Zoroastrians couldn't intervene.

Not an argument

Because the definition of self defense is subjective and different strains of Islam believe in different concepts of jihad? I also love just how much Wikipedia quotes articles from white liberals who never experience war in Islamic countries talking about the ethics of Islamic countries during warfare.

You know, instead of quoting from the Koran

>Not understanding than fact that Christians who couldn't pay jizya were not always subject to fair rulers and therefore had to sell their sons as a Janissary

Islam is a death cult invented at the whims of a psychopath.

>wikipedia doesn't cite sources
>avoiding the part that says killing civilians is prohibited in Islam
You couldn't make your ideological bias clearer than it already is

Oh, so now its about "fair" rulers instead of the religion itself? Nice backpedalling user

>Oh, so now its about "fair" rulers instead of the religion itself?
Wut? It was never about the religion itself, and even if it was there are different strains of Islam who treat these issues differently. We were arguing about the fact that Islam endorsed slavery, was pro corporal punishment to the extreme, and conquered other nations by killing them.

Which they did, all throughout their history as the expanded across Northern Africa, into Spain, and eventually into the Balkans.

>Wikipedia ever cites good sources
>Ignoring that part about offensive jihad and not thinking about "why" they extended the definition from Arab pagan only conquests to everyone

You can't make yourself any more of projecting asshole can you?

Much like all other empires of its time? Life under the caliphate was far better than under a lot of european regions back then, and slavery under Islamic law actually brought better treatement for slaves back then and muslims were encouraged to free slaves, unlike here in the U.S at least, can't believe I am actually defending this shit religion but I hate this "Islam is evil" meme thats being pushed in Veeky Forums of all places

>how dare they expand in the middle ages
stop posting

Because now-Islam sucks

>Ebin. How much cool aid did they give in exact milliliters?
I mean, its a historical fact that there were very few forced conversions and that the Arabs did not seek to convert the entirety of MENA. Read a book

As for the rest of your post, its not a competition. I'm not saying Islam has been better or worse than Christianity. That's a very debatable question with countless historical variables involved that neither of us are qualified to answer I suspect.

ok so now we are talking about the Ottomans. That's what is the problem with you people. You cherrypick practices all of these different Muslim people across space and time and act as though Islam is this one entity. When we talk about say, the initial Arab conquests, or the Muslim Somalis who invaded Ethiopia, or the Ottomans or Pakistan, those are all very different things subject to the local circumstances and values of their place and time.

What you're doing is the equivalent of fedoras citing everything bad that every Christian society ever did and putting that on the doorstep of "Christianity"

Name one Christian murderer who modeled his actions after Christ.

The argument is with a history of proselytization by the sword, and a massive birth rate. Of course the vast majority of abrahamic faiths also fall into this category. We shouldn't hate just islam. They destroy civilization every millenia or so and we are overdue.

Peter in Acts 5.

>At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

It seems rather coincidental that she was within reaching distance of Peter and that the easily impressionable "young men" found her already dead and the revered apostle the only witness.

Civilizations come and go. Some went to fuse with conquering ones, some simply destroyed like Injuns to 'Murica or Mongols to pretty much everyone on Eurasia.

History 101, really.

Crusaders often modeled their actions from the Old Testament but thats completely irrelevant. Its the social and geopolitical circumstances surrounding a given time and place that pulls religion in different directions.

>Much like all other empires of its time? Life under the caliphate was far better than under a lot of european regions back then, and slavery under Islamic law actually brought better treatement for slaves back then and muslims were encouraged to free slaves, unlike here in the U.S at least, can't believe I am actually defending this shit religion but I hate this "Islam is evil" meme thats being pushed in Veeky Forums of all places
Holy ruling Christ kill yourself, what book did you read that pushed this garbage? Islam brought *better* treatmwnt of slaves?

Are you fucking high?

>Defending conquest by sword where they conquered and destroyed everything that got in their way starting with the Persians

Alright you have to be the most brain washed bourgie white liberal kid on face of the planet
Yup. You are probably the whitest and bourgie athiestic white kid on plent Earth. What a meme response lmao

>Shifting the goalposts THIS HARD
>Ignoring the fact that islamic countries still have problems with slavery
>Ignoring the history of Sharia law and actually, unironically , completely seriously saying that Islam was better for slaves

I'm really curious to see what revisionist book you read, plz tell me

>Acts 5 encourages murder and tells Christians to kill pagans , murder homosexuals, and conquer rival tribes

>>Defending conquest by sword where they conquered and destroyed everything that got in their way starting with the Persians
But that is literally false. Their conquering was no different than any other empire at the time. How was it any different than Roman expansion?

And as far as "destruction", that is also false. They conquered, and let things continue on. In fact, they facilitated a whole new scholarly and intellectual network and welcomed intellectuals, muslim or not to join in. Using Arabic as lingua franca, lots of progress was made in philosophy, the arts, architecture, and what have you. The Persians in particular made many contributions in part, thanks to access to literature and knowledge that wouldn't have had otherwise if not for Pax Islamaca. None of this is controversial to historians.

I am not the user who said anything about slaves.

>What is the destruction of Ctesiphon
>What is
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Zoroastrians
>Kidnapping of Christians and forcing them into slavery
>What is the Arab slave trade
>What is the history or their conquests
I mean for fucks sake kid, you're just romantacizing the Islamic Golden Age which only came about because Arabs killed anything that got in their way and brought back the spoils of war to fund an intelligentsia

I think there's some truth to that, The Alt-Right are Closer to Neocons in terms of foreign policy than finge right groups were even five years ago.

And none of that is any more cruel than what was going on in Europe at the same time. Whats your point?

Name ten high-profile terrorist attacks that killed more than five people in the last ten years that were done in the last decade.

Name ten high-profile terrorist attacks that killed more than five people in the last ten years that were done in the last decade done in the name of the Christian religion.

r u dumb? he was talking about the medieval ages.

>why am I supposed to hate islam again guys?
Al-Mutawakkil, Al-Ghazali, Al-Saud, Al-Wahhab, Al-Qaeda, ISIS, Al-Nusra, Boko Haram...

Oh god, im not interested in your cringey sam harris youtube talking points. The current day situation with the Islamic world is one that spans over a century or more of geopolitics; the likes of which you havent even begun to read about intently. As someone who has actually talked to people who study this for a living and have actually been on the ground in these countries, its a lot more complex than you think it is. If you want to learn, then pick up a few history-informed books on the subject. Otherwise, back to your youtube clips kiddo.

>orchestrate coups in muslim lands
>support dictatorships for the sake of anti communism
>keep the main supporters of jihadism on their feet
>wage war in muslim lands for decades, which leads to millions of deaths

Muh muslamic terrism doe. Anglos are truly the cancer of this world

>Early Islam actually seems pretty bro-tier for its time

it isn't, that Golden Age part of Islam belongs to former Roman territories and particularly Sassanid territory.

If you consider that they simply took over already intelectually active prosperous economies and literate populations, then see the result of islamism, you'll realize they fucked that region over tremendously.

>That wasn't a thing during the Arab conquests

You're retarded as fuck.

>You can't really attribute that to Islam
holy fuck you're literally turning the blind eye

>then we should attribute all of the sins the Europeans and Christianity

Which people do anyways while acting like Islam was good boys who dindu nuffin.

>>Probably doesn't even know what a janissary is

Ottoman slave boys

>Damn, ignorant bureaucrats fucked with my country's borders and got a bunch of people killed in wars
>better blow up a bunch of innocent people who had nothing to do with it
At least good ol' Timmy "Can't sway the" McVeigh had the common sense to bomb a building full of people he was actually angry with and didn't know there was a daycare there. If the Muslims actually cared about anything other than killing heretics they would bomb something that was important, not random cartoonists and buildings full of innocent people.

>it isn't, that Golden Age part of Islam belongs to former Roman territories and particularly Sassanid territory.
Yes they did and in doing so they facilitated a wider intellectual network that didnt exist prior.

> then see the result of islamism,
Which is largely tied to geopolitics and interactions with the West

>You're retarded as fuck.
You guys keep insulting me when I say this but its an historical fact. Forced conversions were not widespread during the arab conquests. Islamization of MENA was more gradual than that.

>Which people do anyways while acting like Islam was good boys who dindu nuffin.
Educated people who actually study history don't do that. Partisans like you do. Is your goal to BTFO the SJWs at all costs? Or is it to find the truth?

>i can't debate you on actual history but terrorism duuuuuuuuuuude
fucking epic post, great job

I'm trying to make you people see there's rationale other than being an evil racist for disliking Islam in the modern day.

>have to create autistic patterns in your art/architecture to compensate for the lack of human figures, which are haram

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniconism_in_Islam

Yes, because i often goto the history board in order to convince people of my political position, and not THE FUCKING POLITICS BOARD

I think its actually pretty beautiful

There is no politics board on Veeky Forums. /pol/ is the politically incorrect board, that's a different thing.

OP brought politics into it first. Don't blame me.

it's still merely decorative. about as compelling and rich in meaning as wallpaper. what a shitty way to stultify artistic creation

>And none of that is any more cruel than what was going on in Europe at the same time. Whats your point?
That it's nonsensical to declare Islam to be "bro-tier for it's time" then.

>"Guys, guys, turns out Islam wasn't so bad after all and was actually better than most!"
>It actually wasn't though.
>"So? What's your point?"

If Islam was no better than anyone else at the time why should it be celebrated?

Why is your way of thinking so black or white? Yes, they were in some ways as violent as other contemporary powers but they were also progressive in others. Plenty of social changes were made under Islam that made them bro-tier relative to what people had before, especially in Arabia. Women were given inheritance rights.They created an early version of a social welfare system. Many charity projects were undertaken such as well and canal constructions to spread access to water. Slaves were given a legal status that they didnt have before. Blood feuds were decreased with the introduction of a payment system as opposite to executions. So yes, in some ways it was progressive for its time. This isn't an either-or question.

>All the negative aspects of Islamic societies are not attributable directly to Islam
>In saying that, all the positive aspects of Islamic societies are attributable directly also Islam

You are boring and this thread sucks. Fuck off

t. right-winger who is too insecure to concede anything positive about islam

t. autistic who is transfixed by patterns and who is also an apologist for a religion that strip the humanity out of art

t. autist who is transfixed by patterns and who is also an apologist for a religion that strips the humanity out of art

>everyone has to copy the same shit

Grey is for the indecisive.

>only my narrow view of what art is counts as real art
>if art doesnt depict people, then its not art

Saying Islam is evil right now is like saying Christianity was evil during the crusades: the religion isn't specifically bad, it's just a small portion of the people are shit.

>why am I supposed to hate islam again guys?
You are not, ignore anti-Islam redditors

>You can't really attribute that to Islam.

Where did the Arabs learned that from? Muhammed, anybody?

>every woman wearing hijabs

All women wear hijabs only in Saudi Arabia and Iran. There is nothing wrong with dressing modestly you libtard.

>paying taxes to keep existing in muslim's territories while not being muslim yourself

Name a single Muslim country where non-Muslims have to do this.

>narrow view of what art is

you are promoting patterns that are expressionless, meaningless, represent nothing, emotionally dead, intellectually barren. there's just nothing interesting going on, except an autistic fascination with patterns

you are free to enjoy it but know it's not great art

>Conversion by the sword

Forced conversion by of Christians and Jews are explicitly prohibited in the Qur’an. Whether Islam prohibits forced conversions of pagans is debatable.

OMG executions are terrible :O why r muslims so barbaric?!?!

About half of the people in prison in my country are islamic. Pretty fucking evil of islam if you ask me.

this. Forced conversions did happen though but it wasnt really common initially. It is certainly a leap when people say that it was spread by the sword when it took a couple centuries for it to become the majority religion in the middle east.