Is there anything more gruesome, cold and horrifying than capital punishment in the united states?

I dont find it disgusting since its deffinetively better than rotting away in jail and its only done to the worst of the bunch.

Just shoot the guy in the back of the head Katyn-style. It's $0.35 for a bullet plus giving the janitor a bonus for the clean-up.

think of it this way:

have you seen the inmate list of the federal ADX supermax? legitimately, not a single person there aside from some of the smaller charges deserve to live. the leaders of the aryan brotherhood have life sentences several times over because they've murdered correctional officers. they're directly responsible for murders. then you have domestic terrorists who will never be rehabilitated, life in prison simply draws on society's resources better spent on mental health. they are useless. they will never be rehabilitated. in fact, letting them live is inherently dangerous because they can carry out more murders behind bars. having a life sentence and being threatened with another will not dissuade someone from reoffending.

until you have to lie down on that table for a crime you have not done

Also north korea, china, russia, philippines, etc are way worse

>You go to prison, you get raped. That's pretty much the way it goes here
>here
Yes, yes, we all know the US is a third world country

If im wrongly convicted ill reather be on the table than spending 50 years in jail just to die of old age

Americans are barbarians who don't understand that guillotines are cheap,painless,efficient and easy to use and therefore the best way to admnister capital punishment

great point, but some people who are sentenced to death are obviously mentally traumatized or ill people begging to be helped

Definetively best way

Get rid of the retarded fucking Constitutional appeals (keep the ones that dispute factual guilt though) and put this guy in charge of executions and we could have Death Row emptied out in 9 days tops.

Why are we acting as if the people who get capital punishment are innocent?

there has to be enormous evidence to even drive someone to be convicted of the death penalty. people always point to the least common denominator for the "human" aspect.

Used to be a guard at a huge US prison and had to work in death row for a while. Three men that were awaiting execution when I was there have since been exonerated.

Makes you wonder how many of the people the US has executed were actually innocent.

It is, at least in the third world.

liveleak.com/view?i=a31_1448295506

Why exactly would you respect the human rights of someone who denied those very rights of another?

That's his point, prison rape isn't normal in developed countries.

The older back you go, the disproportionately more wrongful convictions you'll find.

The investigation process has substantially improved since the reforms of the 60s and 70s and the technological leap in forensics of the 90s and 2000s so you're less likely to get a wrongful conviction now than at any prior point in history.

Precrime will probably unironically become a thing in the next century presuming Western Civilization doesn't collapse from civil wars first.

Nope, depends on the state. Louisiana doesn't require the jury to unanimously find them guilty beyond a reasonable doubt; just a majority of the jurors siding with "guilty" over "not guilty." There are people rotting on death row in LSP-Angola right now who had multiple jurors convinced they were not guilty, but the sentencing went ahead anyway because those jurors were outnumbered.

>The whole judical punishment system in America is totally fucked.

I’m opposed to the death penalty not because of the killing but because our justice system simply can’t be trusted to get it right when a life is on the line.

You can read any one of a number of stories on-line about guys being sent to prison for 10, 20 even 30 years before they’re released after it’s discovered that the cops lied, witnesses lied, the prosecution was crooked, ect.

And while it would suck to go to prison for any amount of time, at least there is the possibility of correcting a false conviction.

There’s no fixing dead.

Why is Louisianan such a shitty state? Is it the French?

Not quite;

have you ever witnessed an execution?

I also find that horrifying. It's perfectly reasonable to imprison someone to protect the population and to try to bring justice, but taking the life of someone is just something so finite it shouldn't be done by the state (or anyone, really, in a perfect world).
Because these are basic principles of a civilized society. Revenge destroys societies, as Jordan "clean your room" Peterson once put it.

For the people saying "you can't reverse the death penalty".

What about a clause in the law that says the death penalty can only be applied in cases where there can be no possible doubt about who's guilty? Say there is very clear camera footage, half a dozen witnesses in broad daylight, an indisputable confession.

>These jury systems are largely unnoticed vestiges of white supremacy

Say what now??? Will these people blame EVERYTHING on the white race?

The most retarded thing about American prisons system was race desegregation. It only led to racial gangs forming and constant gang warfare.

>Hurr durr everything would be perfect in muh ideal segregated world

I want /pol/ to get /out/

>Because these are basic principles of a civilized society.

This is circular reasoning.

>Why should we uphold this as a basic principle? Because its a basic principle

>tripfag making claims as to who is welcome here and who isn't

Please kill yourself

So what did desegregation lead to other than increased prison gang violence? Why is it okay to have prisons segregated by sex but not by race?

there is always doubt

as a center-right new englander, legitimately, the death penalty is of use to our society to just rid ourselves of people who are beyond a reasonable doubt guilty. people with multiple life sentences who have murdered other dudes are just a drain on our resources.

No there is not.

A guy on the streets on London stabs another man on the street. CCTV cameras captures the moment. 2 police officers on the same street run up and arrest the man.

You are saying there is doubt as to whether this man is guilty of stabbing the other man?

there is no doubt for inmates in places like federal ADX

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence#Foreign_terrorists

scroll through this list and tell me a single person who should be alive EXCEPT for maybe richard mcnair who is a cool dude

If you don't stop the cycle of revenge it will inevitably escalate.

How far will we go to keep someone imprisoned and pay for their entire life? Imagine is someone like Oscar Dirlewanger was imprisoned. Does he deserve to live? Especially after all of the heinous shit he's done?

Ted Kaczynski should not only be alive but freed.

The problem of prison doctrines is universalism. Sweden and Norway have notoriously humane prisons, almost like hotels, but this couldn't be applied to America where most of the prisoners are beastly niggers and spics. It's simply impossible.

Who's talking about revenge?

We are talking about putting death dangerous people who are at worst a great threat to society and its people and at best a huge burden to society and its people. Revenge has nothing to do with it.

>the death penalty can only be applied in cases where there can be no possible doubt about who's guilty?

What does "no possible doubt" mean, the jury is 90% sure he did it or 75% or what?

This is no different then what we have today and does nothing to address the problems of lying witness, crooked cops, prosecutors fudging evidence, etc.

Quick question, what's the problem with killing people that actively harm society and the people in it?

>Quick question, what's the problem with killing people that actively harm society and the people in it?

Nothing at all, the problem is the system that decides which people need killing is nowhere near 100% accurate and you can't go back and correct any mistakes, when the person has already been executed.

Right, I get where you're coming from, and I'd probably feel different if I lost a close one due to such a murderer, but I think a state shouldn't end people's lives. I just think it's wrong somehow.

The problem with that rationale of thinking is that you can't ever correct ANY punishment. Holding a person in a cell for a day steals away a day of that person's life permanently, so should all punishment go away because no one can be 100% sure of anything?

Yeah, you and I are different. I can only empathize with the victim and the victims families, I can't say I give any shits about criminals.

Are you being intentionally obtuse? Camera evidence and half a dozen witnesses can not be faked by crooked cops.

>if there's solid 100% proof they did it, firing line. most humane way

Most humane way is the guillotine because it kills too fast for them to feel it.

Should the people do it? Should we have a third party do it? The state is necessary in this case. The victim wasn't able to stop them, and they are making more victims indirectly. Especially people like the Mexican Mafia and Aryan Brotherhood shotcallers, who are literally running their gangs through the prison system. The only solution, really, is death. They actually attempted to kill all of the Aryan Brotherhood shotcallers with a case back in the early 2000s, but they only managed to settle on 1-2 death sentences and the rest an added life sentence. It's ineffective. The USA's prison system needs to change, I agree, but if you are so deranged that you cause more derangement, it is necessary to cut the head off of the snake to truly make steps to a rehabilitative system.

I'd personally lobby for a hot piece of metal to the brain, really. It's all subjective - lethal injections are terrible, though, and I wish it weren't like that. Hangings are inhumane, imo, just on the basis of how they can fail. The best future method when we reach the stars will be to launch people into the vacuum.

Statistically, 4% of the time they are.

>Because these are basic principles of a civilized society. Revenge destroys societies
Pretty sure all of human civilization operated on it previously and had no problem surviving, usually what destroyed them was an army from another nation.

>Aryan Brotherhood
Which only bring us back to AB didn't exist until the desegregation, and was originally created as a protective measures from black violence against white prisoners. Now white people who are there for petty crimes get roped into AB and become murderers, just because the faggot prisons aren't segregated by race.

b8

In the past 60 or so years, "civilized people" became an euphemism for "non-violent, pacifist faggots". I'd say civilization and non-violence is straight up mutually exclusive because every civilization was built on violence.

It's not about who should decide it. I just somehow feel like it's wrong to contemplate calmly, while you have the power about the prisoner, and decide to end his life. I don't really have logical reasons for this and executing gang members like you described them would make sense, but I simply don't think it's right. Maybe I'd think differently if I was confronted with such a situation once.

Better the state who in this position is an impartial observer over the affair, than a person who would kill in hot blood for revenge.

you do have a point desu, but the segregation issues only really present themselves in the western states. if you watch any documentary of californian prisons, they inherently self-segregate. I feel like at that point, segregating them again would just make the prisons hugely more profitable for the gangs because they only need to worry about keeping their race in check rather than politicking with other races. Cutting the head off of the snake.

>murder someone
>get provided for by the state for a few years
>get out
>murder again
>???

Kill the scum or make life there living hell for them.
No middle ground.

Can't we just have a dungeon or something to put the really bad people in, instead of a prison?

Being released doesn't really fix 10, 20, 30 years of torture and humilliation in jail to be honest

>they inherently self-segregate
But they're still part of the same general population so they're forced to interact with prisoners from other races, which inherently leads to conflict. Prison violence has skyrocketed since desegregation, which is why some prisons had to be turned into science fiction tier units in order to at least mitigate it.

A prison is basically just a dungeon just with less mildew and rats.

but then you need to pay people to maintain the dungeon, people to guard the dungeon, and pay for whatever else you may need to pay for. it's simpler, frankly, to just shoot them and be done with it.

Why don't we just make a prison that's like a town, and you can do whatever you want living there, but every prisoner has put around their neck a collar with a small amount of explosive so that if they try to go outside radius of the town, the collar goes off and the explosion is enough to separate their head from their body?

good point. i don't see the issue with discussing prisons in terms of race when crime is such a race-specific problem, and once again, i say this as a white middle class new englander. i am by no means a white supremacist.

Why not a self-ruled penal colony somewhere in the Pacific? Like in Escape from Absolom.

Basically what happened:
>prisons get desegregated
>black gangs start targeting and murdering white inmates just for being white
>white inmates thus figure out they have to bond and form a protective organize that's just as violent
>this leads to racial gang wars

Did you read too much Gantz user?

Same thing with the Mexicans who organized along Northern and Southern lines.

You just literally described this film.
What's Gantz?

Actually my inspiration was Xenogears. The part I left out was that the prison colony also had a gladitorial arena, and whoever could prove themselves champion would earn their freedom if they so chose. The champion for I think 5 years running, the mutant Rico Banderas, chose to stay as king of the town instead of live free.

That film is older than Xenogears and follows what you said almost verbatim. Except instead of going outside of town radius, their collars explode if they move more than 100 meters away from their collar mate which is typically somebody they don't know.

>americans brag about their freedom
>their government can legally murder it's citizens
Every other one of these red countries is a shithole too.

>legally murder
Literal oxymoron.

>japan has executions
also
>widespread use
19 states don't have the death penalty

*Legally kill
Happy?

CDCR?

>Japan
>shithole

One exception. Also that's just bad wording on that map, you know what it means.

Wow blame whitey for all your problems.

>japan has executions

Man read up on the japanese criminal system, it is fucked up. It runs on "guilty until proven innocent"

Forgot it was on there

All of Western Europe is a shithole compared to Belarus and I'm not even memeing.

Elaborate

>ethnically homogenous
>100% white
>government stability
>very low crime
>very low unemployment
>no democracy

No, but came within hours of helping perform one. Had mixed feelings about it because the guy was a total piece of shit who tortured his own children to death, but directly helping take a life, even one as shitty as his, is a serious weight to have on you.

It got canceled at the last minute because the medical company that was supposed to supply a vital drug to the process backed out and refused to do it, and the drug they planned to use as an alternative was different enough that the state decided to delay until it they fully determined whether or not being killed using it could be considered cruel and unusual.

Just a week ago a criminal in The Netherlands raped and kill a young woman. DNA evidence makes it indisputable he did this. Before this crime, among other crimes, he raped 2 teenage girls at gunpoint (at the same time), and later bragged about this very act.

There are people, even in this very thread, that say this guy should NOT be given a death penalty. This absolutely disgusts me. Why do you sympathize with such monsters?

Kill 80 ppl (mostly children) and wounds hundreds, gets 22 years and sues 5 years into sentence cause they give him old PS3 games to play.

>breivik will literally get out in our lifetime
what the fuck is wrong with those countries