Yfw when a lifelong Socialist suddenly invents Fascism

The only thing that went "horribly wrong" with fascism was losing the war. Mussolini's Italy was far better than modern Italy.

Syndicalism wasn't traditional socialism. Unlike the socialists who were primarily wage-earners in factories and agitated for working condition improvments or better pay, syndicalism was primarily independent tradespeople and craftsmen who were against wage-labor entirely. It was an entire different conception. The socialists accepted the 'natural progression' of capitalism and the factory system while working towards improvements within it while the Syndicalists or at least in Sorel's writings of it, were against the wage-system on principle. Syndicalism stressed self-ownership in a way that stood apart from both the capitalists and the socialists.

Syndicalism in Europe was akin to the "Populist movement" in America, a movement primarily NOT of wage-earners in factories, but of independent landowners who, at least initially, stood opposed to both the progressives and the conservatives who agreed on the principle of accepting the factory system and its future. Their values were self-reliance, independence, and mutual-cooperation built on trust to sustain their traditional way of life that both the socalists and the capitalists with their insistence of the factory system were fast making impossible carry on.

Yes, I heard Fascist regimes are great places where it is fun to live. Especially if you love taking orders.

>facsism is reactionary
It is reactionary faggot

>Why do Fascists deny that they still dream the same old Marxist dream of forcefully transforming society into something "better"?
They don't?

>Mussolini's Italy was far better than modern Italy.
not an argument

>implying Benito wasn't a traditional socialist in his early 20's

Fascim rejects class struggle and promotes class collaboration

>MOM DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO

>It is reactionary faggot
Knocked me out with that hot argument

>collectivism/individualism dichotomy
when will this meme end already

As soon as somebody can produce a better hypothesis.

>lol if you don't like literal fascism you're just an edgy kid
?????

You do realize the two are not mutually exclusive right?

Well you see, the far left and far right are actually the same.

What I'm saying is that in Syndicalism you have the roots of an intellectual movement that is against BOTH the capitalists and the Socialists/Communists. It was out of Syndicalism that Benito would grope for a "Third-Way" that Fascism was billed as.

Listing "taking orders" as something bad definitely reeks of being a rebellious teen.

Fascism is not far right, it kind of transcends left/right dichotomy, or at best you can claim it as centrist.

[Citation needed]
Because syndicalists are mostly anarchists so I don't see how you relate ot to fascism

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_syndicalism

>primate of the individual over the society
>prime of the society over the individual
>not mutually exclusive
>what did he mean by this?

Nobody is going to take you seriously if you reference an entire Wikipedia page

Yes, or maybe someone that just prefers to live in a liberal democracy than in a fascist/commie dictatorship.

>not realizing that the individual's self interest is sometimes aligned with the collective
Brainlet, I'd like to see you start a revolution with your shallow individualism

>Fascism is not far right, it kind of transcends left/right dichotomy, or at best you can claim it as centrist.
Only if you're a retard american

>everyone I don't like is American
Time to stop with this garbage

Thanks
Tbh it was just what I asked him for

capitalist cuck

Your right fascism isn't right wing only Reagan conservatism is right wing. We all know that the Nazis were more like the demokkkrats

>>>democracy
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/20/mapped-the-7-governments-the-u-s-has-overthrown/
cnn.com/2017/09/18/politics/hillary-clinton-2016-trump/index.html

thats pretty irrelevant for the question, we are talking about the characteristics of societies, just because we are social doesn't mean we are socialists.
Feel free to bring examples for societies that where both individualist and collectivist at the same time then.

I love how the U.S conservatives kept pushing the small/big government dichotomy just to avoid being associated with fascists.
But nothing screams small government like increased military spending I guess

Fascism is not right wing, fascists themselves never claimed to be right wing. It's a Third Position ideology.

>fascists themselves never claimed to be right wing
Communists say that communism has never been tried does that mean it's true?
MtF trannies say they are real women does that mean it's true?

Socialism isn't inherently collectivist, if I'm poor as shit and cannot afford the same opportunities the rich kids have is it not in my individualist self interest to be a socialist?

How's your Iphone comrade?

>inbetween socialism and capitalism
>inbetween reaction and liberalism
Thir Position is right.

>Socialism isn't inherently collectivist
>Socialism's direct goal is the collectivization and central planning of all economy.
Yeah, no.

>oh, you own things? Guess you cannot criticize the current socio-economic system
ebin XD, hopefully some autist posts that picture about how most of the Iphone tech was funded by the state

Fascism is undoubtedly right-wing. You're taking Fascist rhetoric at face value instead of examining what Fascist regimes actually did. Most of the left-wing anti-bourgeois rhetoric that characterized early fascist polemics was quietly dropped as both Mussolini and Hitler actually become politically relevant. One of the key aspects of Fascism is the amorphous quality of its 'doctrine' and its flexibility to add or jettison aspects as needed for expediency. Once Fascist governments got in power they found comfortable working relationships with traditional elites in business.

What is the difference between left and right?

Read the whole post

I just told you. It's either economy (socialism/capitalism) or cultural values (liberalism/reaction). Fascism stands in the middle.
>Hitler
>fascist
Get a trip so I can filter you.

Now you're just splitting hairs.

>Fascism stands in the middle of liberalism and reaction
burgerland education

>It's either economy (socialism/capitalism) or cultural values (liberalism/reaction).
It can't be multiple things. What is the essence of left vs right. It has to be a v z not a/b v y/z

I'm not American.

Fascism has socialist roots and National Socialism even has "socialism" in the name - however when it turned out it was more convenient to appeal to anti-communist sentiments, they redefined their socialism to something completely meaningless, i.e. just some vague solidarity but restricted to the nation which is in complete opposition to the original socialist idea of solidarity which was internationalist, not to mention nationalism already implies national solidarity.

That being said, as everyone knows Communists, Bolsheviks etc. likewise turned into authoritarian and even militarist/imperialist/nationalist assholes once they got in power so in that they are really similar. Appeals to socialist ideals only when its convenient.

Well now you have no excuse to be this retarded

socialism is a buzzword

>Fascism has socialist roots and National Socialism even has "socialism" in the name
Do I need to download more Dinesh D'souza pictures?

/int/ shitters like you should be banned

That's the tl;dr version of it basically.

...

The marxist side to that is coping

my side to that is that my phone was proudly made by sweatshop laborers because America is the greatest nation on earth

Indeed, fascism is right wing socialism.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_syndicalism
national syndicalism is different from anarcho-syndicalism. Sorel was anarcho-syndicalist and he dropped a lot of the socialist baggage and adopted free market principles and an emphasis on symbolism and big lies over class consciousness to bind people together

>You're taking Fascist rhetoric at face value instead of examining what Fascist regimes actually did. Most of the left-wing anti-bourgeois rhetoric that characterized early fascist polemics was quietly dropped as both Mussolini and Hitler actually become politically relevant.

True fascism has never been tried.

You called?

...

How the fuck is Mussolini so CUTE?

Fucking BASED street shitter knows that democrats are the real racists.

>Being a son

>invents Fascism

implying authoritarian collectivist dictatorships haven’t always been a thing

>literally a retarded bouncer
Get your eyes checked

I didn't realize that the Make A Wish Foundation worked back then. That's heartwarming.

It was still called Winterhilfswerk back then because it was founded by a German

Because Fascism underplays the class conflict within states, the central tenent and crux of Marxist sociology, at the expense of boosting national indentity and consciousness, a tool of the bourgeoise?

Syndicalism and fascism have pretty similar support base, composed of the petty bourgeoise.

>Back before when make a wish foundation was not perverted by kikes

>AYO WE WUZ ROMANS N SHIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET
Nice try, Benito

>viewing the entire world through the prism of marxism

>national indentity and consciousness, a tool of the bourgeoise

I mean, a theory of society requires some sort of a sociological background for it to view it through. Perhaps you do not recognize your own prism?

If we are talking about why socialists do X, surely a demonstration of the views socialists had that led to the view matter. Marxs' writings view nationalism with suspicion, and looking at the compositions and trends in the nationalist movements of his time, he isn't all from being wrong.

Not to mention, his university lecturers were politically vetted so that their philosophy lectures would explicitly support the Prussian monarchy.

Marx was a racist and cultural chauvinist.

Uhh?

>Uhh

I think you mean corporatism? National syndicalism=/= to anarcho syndicalism which was popular among wage laboring factory workers and farm hands.

Of course he was, he was a J*w.

Do you want to expand upon your argument?

Cellphones are just overhyped walkie-talkies.

...

>use jet aircraft
>whoops, guess you're a nazi now

Everybody was racist, who cares?

>left wing sharpshooter that kills krauts
>creates an ideology that personifies and embodies the german spirit
>goes from hero to zero the the krautleadür
>gets killed by his own people and the power of love

literally weebshit cliche villan that was once good but something bad was done to him so he must now destroy the world in order to get his revenge

>tfw you are looking upon mussolini's fingerprints

What a time we live in

Fascism is socialism with a national identity.

When they entered the war of course there was a downward spiral of political repression and economic instability but before that point the government had pretty widespread support and people liked a lot of what it did. In contrast to Germany a comparatively large amount of Italy today hold a positive view of what went on.

There is a reason many prominent western intellectuals/pundits/authors etc were complimenting Mussolini and the fascist government in the early 1930's before all the international tension.

A lot of the reforms they instituted were good and widely favored by the public, Argentina modeled their workers rights on the reforms made by Fascist Italy.

>A lot of the reforms they instituted were good
Pretty much every reform in Italy is a good thing, says a lot about your country when you are so desperate to go in bed with fascists just to get a bit of Ordnung.

What is wrong with that ideal?

Is Cuba fascist?