What will be the next franca lingua? What will be the three most widely used languages in North America in the future...

It's "Lingua Franca", buddy.

Anyway, it's English and will continue to be English.

Local varieties or dialects not "languages". It's the same English spoken in London, Dublin, Kingston Jamaica, Cape Town South Africa, or Madras India. But obviously with regional differences.

As the other user said though, the internet and globalization and shit are actually having the general opposite effect of regional variations. They'll always exist to some extent, but there are a lot more influences to flatten out these regional differences nowadays.

I'm a linguist and a teacher, and honestly way too many people get way too bogged down worry about grammar. Grammar is just the reflection of the way people use a language. Rules are based on how people speak, not vice versa. In your lifetime it doesn't seem to change much perhaps, but the reality is that all languages slowly morph all the time. Your great-great-grandparents would be disgusted at the way you talk (if they could understand English, when they probably couldn't even read any language at all, much less speak a foreign one).

It's not as hard as you think. Violence works wonders. Though in the modern era, it's not as easy anymore to enforce a language.

consider that you are literally speaking english on the internet with us right now

>There's arguments in Flipdom whether to follow what Brits think, or what Americans think is proper English
This is you proving my point. You're not developing your own branch of the language, you're following an external standard.
Of course your country right now is pretty shit at proper english since it's not like you're a top tier country for education, no offense, but do you think your generation understands and is understood in english better or worse than the previous and the next one? I bet your peers know english better than their parents did, and worse than their kids will.

Cultural and political dominance.

I don't mean 'enforce' as in someone literally going in and saying "No more English from now on" but just someone amassing enough global influence that their language begins replacing English as the language everyone speaks. That's how bridge languages are generally made and replaced.

>I don't mean 'enforce' as in someone literally going in and saying "No more English from now on"
Just fyi, that was actually a thing in the past. Usually worked too, coupled with roaming bands of enforcers.

Yeah, but I don't think it's feasible nowadays, with the internet and everything.

'Standards' exist for schooling, but even in England or the US, most people don't speak exactly like their grammar books. People are also able to code switch or change register depending who they're talking to.

>I don't think it's feasible nowadays
It's certainly not the most efficient way to do it regardless, but I'd imagine it could still work in some third world shithole.

Right, adjectives last in french

Italian, Close enough. I was educated in Canada.

>'Standards' exist for schooling
And business. And government. And anything official or formal in any way. I'm not saying all differences are gonna be flattened under one unchangeable standard, I'm saying that differences will be born off and influence that standard in a linear way, rather than branch out like a fucking tree as it happened in the past.

It'll probably be Mandarin some time in the future, e.g when the U.S implodes.

Only because I'm considered "well educated" around here.

I put Juan De La Cruz here from some farm in San Whatever, Pampanga, and let's see what happens. Or even just some random kid in Manila even.

>I bet your peers know english better than their parents did, and worse than their kids will.
On the contrary: older Flip generations used English way better than my generation does. Considering this was an ex-American colony from 1900s-1946. The closer a generation is/was to American rule, the better their command of English.

So in terms of English proficiency
>Grandparents generation > Boomers >> Parents' generation >>>Current generation >>>> Next generation.

And standards mean jack-shit if once you leave the classroom you don't use it anyway.

>you don't use it
A quick look to your government websites tells the me contrary tho. Are you telling me that when you have to write documents for work you use broken english? Or do you use the english you were taught at school?

>Are you telling me that when you have to write documents for work you use broken english?
Actually the case lmaaaaao.

Mandarin doesn't really make sense as a global lingua franca. Part of what made English so successful was not only cultural dominance of the United States towards the end of the 20th Century, but also the lasting influence of British colonialism. There are literally dozens of countries around the world where English is the primary language, official language, or general lingua franca. Chinese also has some inherent barriers to learning, such as its tonal system being difficult for some non-native speakers and 5,000+ character written system, which even if neither of these things are as complex as they seem can appear to be easily daunting to somebody who has no prior knowledge. Furthermore, English is already set as the international language of trade, communications, flight, and several other key areas, not to mention that the most prevalent sites on the internet by far are all at default English-language based.

cont.

Spanish, Arabic, hell even French again all fit more categories for ease of becoming a future lingua franca, and I don't even see any of those matching the bill any time soon. Also, thanks to the internet, culture, and improving education standards, knowledge of English is becoming ingrained in many societies and even eroding local languages. Look at most of Europe, where English is understood by more than half of the population, with an even greater proportion of the youth understanding it, and Scandinavian nations even having English fluency in the range of 90%+. Nigeria and South Africa have such an economic and cultural dominance in Africa that many African nations are struggling to impose measures to keep their own languages alive, as people in former French, Portuguese, and German colonies are increasingly defaulting to English as their own lingua francas. Which also brings up the point that many growing and regional powers around the world already have English as an official language, most notably India and Nigeria, which are also cultural powerhouses in their own rights and produce much of that culture in English. By contrast, China has yet to become a true modern cultural power, being eclipsed by Japan and even South Korea in their own sphere.

More or less, even in the event of an American implosion and collapse, English is quite well set up to remain a global lingua franca for a long time to come. By contrast, while Mandarin has a lot of native speakers and some economic backing, it's lacking in a lot of areas for it to really supplant English.

>Only because I'm considered "well educated" around here.
maybe you're well educated because all your interests on the internet have a use for english skills

>only people that speak mandarin are Chinese
>Chinese speak English

Finnish.

bbc.com/pidgin

Anything in the name of not being racist.

Not a race issue, proper grammar vs rules.

It's very much turns into a race issue when broken English gets turned into a language because black people can't use proper grammar.

>my variety of arbitrary mouth sounds is better than this other variety of arbitrary mouth sounds

Does Nigger 1 understand Nigger 2? if yes, the purpose of communication worked.

>le everything is arbitrary that's why I eat shit and suck cocks every day

Yeah, i'm sure nogs get a kick out of hearing white people talk too, what's your point?

Niggers are just as intellectual capable as whites, they just lack the will/means to escape poverty and suppression.

sure thing pal

most things in linguistics are arbitrary, especially the small differences between white and black english
my point is that there's no one correct way to speak.

>most things in linguistics are arbitrary, especially the small differences between white and black english
Taking a language and then doing it wrong is not arbitrary. There is no black english, there's just english spoken by uneducated black people that the rest of the world then has to pretend is actually "correct" so as to not offend anyone.

Obviously there IS a correct way to speak otherwise we would not be able to communicate. Fuck off with this post modern bullshit.

>There is no black english, there's just english spoken by uneducated black people
This is just wrong. Black english is a dialect of english that is internally consistent and follows its own rules.
>Obviously there IS a correct way to speak otherwise we would not be able to communicate. Fuck off with this post modern bullshit.
>post modern bullshit
This view has been standard in linguistics for decades.

>Does Nigger 1 understand Nigger 2?
That would actually be interesting to know. Do nigerians (or whoever the bbc pidgin page directed to) actually understand the content better than they understand the standard page? Because it's not a given (as nigerian pidgin is not standardized nor is it taught as a written language afaik), and given bbc's general incompetence, especially in racial matters where they come off as patronizingly racist as often as not, I wouldn't be suprised if it was every bit as hard to understand to them as it is to me.

>This is just wrong. Black english is a dialect of english that is internally consistent and follows its own rules.
Except it's not and has no rules and is intermixed with a million local words. They are trying to standardize it because of that. Secondly, it's not considered a dialect but literally a simplified dumbed down version of English.

>This view has been standard in linguistics for decades.
>LE I CLAIM SOMETHING THAT'S NOT TRUE xDDDDD
Ah, yes, when you misspell something you just explain that there's no correct way anyway and that makes the error go away.

Lastly; fuck off

Ok, now you're just saying straight up wrong things. You don't understand the basic concepts of linguistics enough to have a valid viewpoint on AAVE. Google linguistic descriptivism.

>wrong
How can it be wrong when there is no such thing as correct?

>le google it

In the study of language, description or descriptive linguistics is the work of objectively analyzing and describing how language is actually used (or how it was used in the past) by a group of people in a speech community.

All academic research in linguistics is descriptive; like all other sciences, its aim is to describe the linguistic world as it is, without the bias of preconceived ideas about how it ought to be.[1] Modern descriptive linguistics is based on a structural approach to language, as exemplified in the work of Leonard Bloomfield and others.[not verified in body]

Linguistic description is often contrasted with linguistic prescription, which is found especially in education and in publishing. Prescription seeks to define standard language forms and give advice on effective language use, and can be thought of as a presentation of the fruits of descriptive research in a learnable form, though it also draws on more subjective aspects of language aesthetics. Prescription and description are complementary, but have different priorities and sometimes are seen to be in conflict. Descriptivism is the belief that description is more significant or important to teach, study, and practice than prescription.

Not the guy you're responding to, but holy shit you're retarded. Black english is very standardized and you would know this if you had ever spoken to a group of black people. It absolutely is considered a dialect - read "what language is, isn't, and could be"

I get the feeling that you actually don't know what pidgin is, by whom it's used and for what purpose. But hey at least you can copy and paste something so you're not completely retarded.

There is no such thing as Black English, you're the retarded one, even more so for claiming any sort of standardization.

AAVE

In the futcha we all be talkin it.

I didn't realize we were still talking about pidgin, you've been talking about black english this whole time. I don't know which pidgin the BBC is translating into in the article, there are many different pidgins.

>In the futcha we all be talkin it.
that's not what AAVE grammar is like at all

>I don't know which pidgin the BBC is translating into in the article
Considering the main page shortcuts are 'Nigeria' and 'Africa', most likely nigerian pidgin.

Oh, yeah, when people think "black" they thing niggers in the US, that's where black people come from anyway, right?

lol, no.

Mandarin does not lend itself well to a lingua franca. Not the least because it is not widespread. Total number of speakers means shit when 90% live in one place (even if there's a lot of them). English is easy to learn and has a flexible, simpler 'forgiving' set of grammar.

Now you might say that Mandarin has 'no' grammar either, transliterated literally into English, it would sound like pidgin English, but it's written system is a huge barrier, and the tones can be learned, but again it's a layer of complexity that English for example doesn't have to bother with.

Black english is entirely different from nigerian english.

Pidgin isn't even a unified language itself, there's dozens of local variations, a pidgin speaker in New Guinea isn't going to understand one from Ghana

>English is easy to learn and has a flexible, simpler 'forgiving' set of grammar.

>English has conjugation. Tenses.
>Mandarin hasn't.

You're right about writing, but you fucked up in saying English has a forgiving grammar.

What point are you trying to make?

But there really is not such thing as "proper grammar". It's an arbitrary distinction. We call it such for our convenience, but it's an illusion. Black Americans speak a variety of English that is not "Standard English" and sure as fuck isn't going to get them a job at Goldman-Sachs or MSNBC, but AAVE actually has a set of fixed standard grammar of its own. You're just ignorant of it, so to you it sounds like "bad English" or whatever. That's a social judgment, OK, but from a linguistics POV, it's irrelevant.

I'm a linguistics grad, so come at me bro.

There is no such thing as "Black English". Just because you decide to claim the dialect spoken by african americans (that originates in fucking England) is "black english" doesn't make it so.

It's funny for all the eurocentric shitstick that's passed around but apparently "black" things relate exclusively to niggers in the US.

>hurr durr everything I don't understand is post-modern bullshit.

It does though. Even if you conjugate wrong, your meaning will generally be understood. Compared to German, Xhosa, Russian or Navajo, English is easy as fuck.

>What point are you trying to make?
The point that broken English is used as the lingua franca in western Africa and instead of admitting it is in fact broken English claims are being made that it's in fact a legitimate language and needs to be treated as such.

The equivalent of a Hungarian and a Russian communicating in English that they both can't speak properly turning into a language because it's offensive to point out they just speak bad fucking English and should learn how to speak it properly.

>le everything is correct as long as we're communicating.
>le its arbitrary

I was comparing English to mandarin.

For example, tenses and conjugation. Say a future event of going to the store the next day
English => Literal Mandarin translation.
>I will go to the store => I go store later
>I am going to the store tomorrow => I go store tomorrow.

The only thing English does forgivingly as a European language is its lack of useless bullshit like gendered cases. But compared to Mandarin, English already has complicated rules.

>Pidgin is just wrong English
Are you completely unaware of the fact it's a fusion of several languages that's intended to be mutually intelligible to groups of people who don't speak the same language in the first place?

The dialect spoken by some african americans IS black english. black english is another word for AAVE, african american vernacular english.

It's broken English, it's based on English and does include local words but that's something that makes it LESS valuable for communication between groups that do not speak the same language. That's why there's increased standardization and the retarded pidgin site. They're LITERALLY trying to push it mainstream and have people EDUCATE in it.

The equivalent of me writing in broken English and including Polish words into the conversation, because, you know, just speaking proper English would be too much of a hassle and then claiming it's a legitimate language.

>black english is another word for AAVE, african american vernacular english.
Ah, yes, because niggers in the US decided they're the legit blacks so anything "black" must be related to US niggers. Thus when someone says "black" he means nig nogs speaking in a retarded manner in Alabama.

No one takes you seriously by the way. Niggers speaking like niggers isn't even a black thing to begin with.

I really hope you get this pissed off about South Africans pronouncing A's as E's and Kiwis pronouncing O's as U's

I'm having trouble understanding your perspective. Are you a black person from the UK who's mad that I talked about black americans like they're the only black english speakers that matter?

English isn't a lingua franca in India anymore than a dozen of other languages are.

gonna need proofs on that. Hindi is a lingua franca in india for sure, but i can't think of an argument for any of the other languages.