How the fuck is a Capital Gains Tax even fucking legal...

IN THE LAND OF THE FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

In what way? If I buy Ark can I just dump all my wages into Ark and use it instead for every day purchases and avoid the CGT?

Would you rather have once off gains treated as ordinary income and result in you getting pushed into a higher bracket instead?

I holidayed in Thailand for 4 months last year and was planning to go back again soon funded by my crytpo gains, and researching cashing out I realized I am gonna get taxed hard.

I had to pay about $80 aussie fiat to get a visa extension for a month, and about $300 for a hotel and $300 more for food for the month. Cheap as fuck. I didn't look into opening a bank account there since I was only holidaying but when I go back I will. Is Thailand lax on capital gains taxation? If it is I may as well stay there for longer and live off my crypto if I can.

Yeah I'm pretty familiar with visa run costs and all that good stuff. I don't think as a foreign citizen with a bank account there cashing a btc here and there would result in paying taxes. If the U.S. can barely keep up with it no way a place like Thailand ever could anytime soon. Seems like a pretty solid plan honestly, also btc costs more on their exchanges too, just a bit though. Will probably be going back there in next few months myself and teaching part time and living it up on small amount of crypto gains

If taxes are such a big deal to you, trade a different instrument I trade futures and I only have to pay 60% of my gains as long terms gains and 40% of my gains as short term, even if i hold the contract intraday. So, almost half the money I'm making is only taxes at 15%.

Actually yes because trying to repeal income tax would fix two birds with one stone.

Fuck that sounds like a good plan. Great excuse to go on a little holiday to Thailand every few months to cash out my crypto.

I know you are yankie but do you think as an Australian Tax Resident that the Australian Tax Office would track my transactions in Thailand? Or would they have literally no knowledge of this ever occuring. Could I keep my crypto gains a complete secret from the ATO by only cashing out overseas in overseas bank accounts, while being an aussie tax resident, or would I have do somehow become a thai tax resident to avoid aussie taxes?

I mean, if that plan would work for you as an American, it would probably work for me as an Aussie too.

>be auscunt
>dude your intelligent decisions must fund the hordes of foreigners and single moms but no one who is ACTUALLY rich has to or will pay these extortionate taxes lmao

lel get fucked implying im not cashing out in the caymans or isle of man

Is Local Bitcoins a viable option for cashing out say $50k of btc in person for cash? Too dangerous even if broken down into multiple, smaller sells?

Can I really cash out as a tourist in the caymans with no CGT and the ATO wont know?

I'm gonna make the ATO fucking pink.

Fucking gross

As far as I can figure there is no chance they would report it, they are so disorganized there. Also I think it might be even easier as a Aussie. Their big bx exchange doesn't even let Americans register. Pretty sure I will be trying it soon here, I asked on Facebook about cashing out and it sounds super easy to a Bangkok bank account. If by chance that doesn't work there is localbitcoins and could easily find buyers in bangkok/chiang mai. I just think most people with crypto haven't thought of this yet and virgins afraid of the "shitty" 3rd world countries, can't imagine we pay a cent of tax

wait wtf the OP is from aus?
guess its a good thing I dont have an income

No, that'll flag it. They revised that shit with the Patriot Act, and the US government harassing other countries financial institutions as a result. They know that people were intentionally doing transactions below the limit to get flagged, so large amounts of which which end in 9s are also suspicious.

Im moving to america

Ausfag here. When I cash out my money it'll be in New Zealand since there is no CGT. I pay 30% income tax for years and get nothing. Why the fuck would I want to prop this disgusting welfare police state when I don't have to? Maybe I'll cash out in the Caymans and pay 1%. Ill only do it if I make retirement money in crypto

Guys why the fuck cant i just open a bank account in one the many non cucked countrys, cash out my BTC there and store it in their bank

then transfer that money back to whichever country i want to reside in

hopefully the next gov doesn't fuck me and you then, friend.

this
they are going to force anyone that has decent money out of the country, idiots

Huh I never read this so close. What if making profit was not part of your intention at all when you were buying bitcoin but was just something that happened to occur? Like what if your primary reason was philosophical opposition to the debt based financial system (could even be described as spiritual)

Wait so the amount of capital gains tax corresponds to your income tax bracket? What if I have no income and am on centrelink?

>tfw absolutely no tax on crypto gains in your country

You forgot to mention that
> Capital Gains are realized after EVERY SINGLE TRADE

If you wait longer than a year from the time of your usd to btc transaction, the tax is significantly reduced.

I don't think this is correct, as long as you aren't trading back into usd you haven't "realized" anything.

So if I go to Thailand will I have to use their bx exchange or can I still use aussie exchanges or just coinbase or other mainstream ones? When I visited last year I had troubles with my bank and phone from home.

Also how does localbitcoins work? I just trade in person or it's some craigslist thing for coins? I've never looked into that before. Also 3rd world countries are underrated as fuck. So much cool stuff you can do there.

Yes I am OP and I'm Aussie.

How about ending in 8's or significantly below 8's? Just casing out at $100 or $1000 profit.

Oh shit I didn't think about the Kiwi's. Do they really have no CGT? As an Aussie how easy is it to move there. I never looked into going there since I don't like kiwi's.

Lucky mofo.

inb4 all the "you only pay taxes when you cash out fags"

god, I can't wait for the IRS to destroy them

HOW TO STOP PAYING CAPITAL GAINS TAX

1. GO TO MALTA
2. FIND A QT
3. ASK QT TO MARRY YOU
4. GET MARRIED
5. BECOME CITIZEN OF MALTA
6. RENOUNCE YOUR OTHER CITIZENSHIP
7. NOW YOU DONT OWE CAPITAL GAINS TAX

Wrong. That's why most of the big exchange let you import your trade history.

bingo. you should hire an accountant friend.

Why? Because share buybacks are a way to dillute equity to pay yourself and avoid income tax that comes with dividends.

There would have to be very special rules before we did could remove capital gains tax.

>tfw british
>tfw inherited non-dom status

cya later cucks

i can't wait to see the pink wojack thread you make when the irs audits you.

Can we get any smart anons to answer this question for us lowly wage slaves looking to get ahead in life?

Honestly, I don't know. I was told by a banker about that in casual conversation once about 8 years ago, I don't know what they've done since then. I can't say I ever laundered money desu.

If i have a british passport(not born in UK tho) but live in a australia(aus citizen) am i non dom...

>cashing out of crypto
Brehs...

Here's the rest, note this is ausfag law only though. Might be able to get a reduction or exemption possibly but not likely.

>if you wanted to oppose a debt based finance system why did you cash out when your coins mooned?

Here is the whole article for all interested.

munros.com.au/blog/business/taxation-of-bitcoin-in-australia/

US?

Yes. I'm not sure about the other countries, so you'd have to check on your own.

Yup just open up a Bangkok bank account specifically they are only one I know allows foreigners easily then sign up on their exchanges send coins to it and cash out, from what I gathered sounds very easy. Haven't used local bitcoins for a while but yeah that's essentially it. $1500 a month in chiang mai I bet is a very high quality of life

Man, so much this.

Will they ever get it?

but as another user said, I'm not realizing the gains since I'm not cashing out?

Yes, you get taxed after you liquidate the asset.

I can't remember all the bank names from when I was over there last year, but is Bangkok bank all over the country? I was only in Bangkok for like a day total, and never went to Chiang Mai. I went to Pattaya and will be going to Phuket next year.

But yeah westerners with even just a bit of money can live like kings there. Thanks for the advice mate.

It doesn't matter if you cash out or not. You are still paying taxes for your realized gains.

Hypothetically, sure you can never pay it off because you didn't cash out. How do they know? They don't. But whenever you cash out and get audited, the Jews will pinch every penny you have because you lied.

as an accountant, this thread is hilarious to read

>i'm so smart. how come no one ever thought of this before.

enjoy prison fellas

>Buy bitpay card
>Use it for the vast majority of your purchases
>Avoid paying taxes

Can this work Veeky Forumsnessmen?

Cant you just do cash by mail from those 1000+ rep 100% feedback guys on localbitcoins?

I lost most of my cryptos in a boating accident so I'm good.

Can someone break this down for me?

Are you saying that we literally owe 15% on every single shitcoin trade? Like I'd have to do 15% on every profitable trade to see my actual tax rate?

Say I bought .25btc and have like 1.3 now. Do I just owe 15% on the difference or do I need to calculate 15% on every trade?

Yeah all over. Chiang mai is pretty sweet way way cheaper than other places, but night life sucks compared to bangkok or pattaya but overall I like it better and rather not bang too many pattaya girls. Very welcome, perhaps ill see you there. Phuket is pretty fun but hotter girls in bangkok/pattaya, better beaches elsewhere, and better food almost everywhere, but good gyms and muay Thai

How do they check your wallet? How do they tie it to an identity? How do they check your trades if you are on an exchange that hasnt verified your identity? How do they get relevant information if you are using user coins?

Under 200 people paid taxes on cryptos in the USA last year
why are they just stating that instead of saying that they will be prosecuted?
is it because the reality of this new economy has resulted in a situation where they are no longer in control?

tl;dr- good luck taxing trades and wallet balances

Who in this thread gave the best and most realistic advice?

That's mostly so you can prove where the money came from. The danger isn't from not taxing every trade. It's from you suddenly depositing 200 BTC into your account without being able to account for where they came from.

I'm not trying to dodge taxes or launder money to Thailand. Based off watching a few guys discuss capital gains on YouTube and how they went about filing taxes is my only point of reference. It doesn't seem that complicated to me?

The first, last, and only significant act of submission that the nations of the world have (nearly without exception) made was to hand the control of their money over to private central banks with a license to operate fractional reserve banking systems. Everything else flows from that. The political corruption, the human degradation, and the tyranny of "modern" taxation of which you speak (it's necessary in order to feed the ever-expanding debt bubble that is our monetary system).

Futures. You're the real trader.

Someday when I get big boy cash I'm gonna trade futures...

I'm just parroting what a, I can't remember, lawyer(?) or accountant(?), on Reddit said regarding crypto.

But you are correct that there have been many people who has evaded taxes with crypto. The IRS will definitely be cracking down on this harder in the future. The only thing they have is time.

My friend wanted to go there but I didn't know what the fuss was about with Chiang Mai. What does it have that other places in Thailand don't have? I personally loved the nightlife in Pattaya, I am a nighttime person, not even just the dirty side but just walking around on the streets at 3 AM in Pattaya is comfy as fuck with all the lights up and people still strolling around, going to talk to the fisherman on the beach in the nighttime. Fucking cozy place and always warm, even when it rains.

When are you going? I'm going in March of next year for 2 months. 1 month Phuket (for first time visit) then a month in Pattaya again. Bangkok to me seemed to be to much of a busy city, and very dirty so I only stayed as short as I could there. But I heard it has some decent nightlife.

>good gyms

Kek I actually went to the gyms in Pattaya too, and I saw that Tim Sharky guy at the gym when I was there. Just unreal to see some Youtube e celeb in real life at the gym when you are on holidays.

this could this work?

>As an Aussie how easy is it to move there.

I'm pretty sure that they give permanent residency to Australian citizens upon arrival.

Nice samefagging. Idiot.

It's a glow in the dark CIA nigger, dont mind him.

you need to choose a cunt that has no agreement with your owner regarding financial data sharing
many cunts tax you on global income
you were born into this slavery, don't cause trouble now, goy

The best is how they double tax good. Like if you buy a used car, you STILL have to pay tax on it, even though the original shop paid tax, the first purchaser paid tax, etc.

Accountant here.
You only pay tax when you cash out into fiat.
You'd only have to pay 15% on your profit.

Local Bitcoins for cash in-person is always the best way to cash out, for any amount. You can mark up your bitcoin to a premium and there's no real paper trail

Those people look extremely British. Your country has nothing to do with how disgusting your fat genes or pube-like hair genes are

What about cash by mail from reputable traders?

Brit here. I've been to every Starbucks in this country and I can categorically tell you that this one is not in the UK

the 15% is only for long term capital gains. if you're not hodling these coins for at least a year then you trigger the short term capital gains rate which can be quite a bit higher depending on your tax bracket. it can also be lower if you don't make much money.

either way, you pay capital gains on each and every trade. however, assuming that you didn't cash anything out and reinvested your entire stack on each trade that dollar amount would be equal to the capital gains rate of total cash accumulated/total cash invested. for example, let's say that you bought your .25 BTC when it was worth 2000 and today you traded for 1.3 BTC when BTC is worth 3800. your tax liability would roughly be (4940-500)*your short term capital gains rate of 10%=$444. unless you're in a higher tax bracket then your short term capital gains would be a higher percentage.

i'm not sure how pissy the irs would get if you just did the 1.3-.25, though, because of quarterly tax estimates and other byzantine rules.

that's why i export my trade data to software that can figure cash value on each trade.
t. accountant.

don't listen to this guy, the irs hasn't ruled on like kind exchange as it refers to cryptocurrencies yet. i guarantee when they do, however, they will rule that cryptocurrencies are not like kind exchanges, because if you trade yen for euros and back to yen you still have to pay capital gains taxes on those trades. crypto is no different than that.

I've only been to the UK for less than a day total and I can tell it's not England just due to the amount of sunlight in the back of that shot.

Is there a list of all the agreements each country has with each other for financial data sharing?

Chiang mai just has insanely cheap living like half the cost of bangkok, great food and pretty fun laid back attitude. Not sure when I'm going again within the next few months if not then like early next year as well.

And lul I met sharky as well when I was there. I love the night life too. If you can deal with big cities bangkok actually has the best night life by far, all the seediness of pattaya but then really fancy clubs and also goes till like 5 am every day

what country?

Could you avoid taxes entirely by using a card like Monaco?

>yen for euros and back to yen
Really?
In the UK currencies are exempt from CGT, it is same with cryptos, you don't have to pay tax on individual trades, only when you cash out.

So if I needed to stay in Thailand for a year to get tax resident status, chiang mai would be the place to do it at the least cost? Also how hard is it to get a visa renewal there? In Pattaya they have an immigration office just down south in Jomtien, literally a 5 minute tuk tuk ride down there from Pattaya's beach road and you fill out some forms and pay them for a month extension. My older mate who's been going there for years was surprised as he had still been going to Laos and Cambodia for his visa runs.

I hate cities because Aussie cities are cancer, and I really liked the smaller/mid sized town feel of Pattaya in comparison. But I doubt Bangkok will be filled with the trash that inhabits Sydney so I could probably stomach it.

>clubs go to 5AM

Neat, does this even include the go go bars? In Pattaya they closed at like 4 AM or something IIRC. The seedyness of Pattaya was great but it was also just cozy as fuck in other ways too. I fucking love that town. What would you say was better for lewd experiences? Pattaya's Walking Street or Bangkok version (I know it has a name but can't remember it since never been there). By the way does Chiang Mai at least have a nightlife, if it at least just has some go go bars I could live with it. Fucking loved the go go bars more than the cheap whores to be honest. Oddly enough made lots of friends with fellow tourists in them too.

What software are you using? I plan to be trading for the indefinite future and I don't want be a fuggin scrub, also thanks for insights buddy

>until I don't have to cash out my crypto and just use it to purchase everything
In most countries you pay capital gains tax after spending crypto, because it counts as profit taking. Same tax as for cashing out and then spending it.

No idea about tax resident status. I'm not so sure that is a thing unless you marry a Thai girl. Visa extensions are the same in chiang mai, but you can only extend once on a 3 month visa, then you do have to do a visa run to some other country.

Gogos are tons of fun they close at like 2 am though then a lot of the girls go to the clubs. Overall on strictly gogos I thought pattaya was best, but with clubs added in bangkok wins easy.

Chiang mai has decent nightlife and a few gogos but it closes at 12am mostly which is whhen I get really going so kinda sucks in that regard

Not easy, unless you have a lot of money or get a job there.

And if you are American, you get taxed anyway until you renounce your citizenship

It doesn't matter if you spend the crypto or sell it, the capital gain is still taxable. It fucking sucks

Thailand uses a territorial taxation system, meaning you only get taxed on Thai sourced income, or foreign income that you remit to Thailand in the same year it was earned.

If you are not American, are tax resident in Thailand and sell any assets outside of Thailand without bringing the money there, it is tax-exempt

I went to some of the clubs in Pattaya on Walking Street and didn't enjoy them as much as the go go bars. What makes the Bangkok ones better?

>12 am close in chiang mai

damn that sucks

So either I either go each January and sell all my crypto gains from the previous year, or become a thai tax resident then return to Australia to cash out with no taxes?

Fucking government has to ruin everything, especially so in Australia. Like a fucking boot eternally trying to keep us from profiting and becoming class mobile.

If you choose Thailand you need to stay there 180+days, best bet is to get the 5 year elite visa (costs 15k), then open a bank account in another country (not in Thailand nor Aus) and sell the crypto in this country. Do not sell it on a Thai exchange and do not bring any money over in the same year!!! Most governments require proof that you actually have permanently moved before they give you nonresident status so you will actually have to move there for a few years.

In summary
1. Stay in Thailand 180+ days in order to gain tax residency
2. Make sure you are non-resident in Aus
3. Open bank account in other country e.g. Singapore
4. Sell on any non-Thai exchange and move fiat to bank acc in SG
5. Don't move the money to Thailand in the same year

Since you are Aussie it is probably easier to go to NZ because you get residency automatically.

If you don't have at least six figs in crypto then this it is most likely not worth it

>either way, you pay capital gains on each and every trade.

does this apply for Aus too?

Exactly, One could argue that he bought into bitcoin as a store of value, rather than an investment. The intention here is clearly to store capital somewhere which one deems is a safe place to store. Coincidentally the value of bitcoin has risen, thereby increasing value of persons initial deposit.

In this case, referring to the information provided in the screenshot in question, i believe that tax would not apply

Thanks for all that, it's very helpful. So best for Aussies to just go to NZ and cash out there, then come back to Australia? How many times can I do this and how easy? Do I need to get rid of my aussie tax resident status when I do this? If I continually make week long trips to NZ every few months and continually drop my tax status will they catch on to me? I still work my day job in Australia and need to pay tax on that shit. Should I just go to NZ to cash out only during fucking huge moons then go back to Australia with the profits and reapply as Aussie tax resident and quit the NZ one?