Is there any proof of Stalin/Soviet government causing the Holodomor?

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Depends on what you mean. Whether or not the Stalin regime pursued policies that helped create famine is debatable. There is, however, no evidence that Stalin or the communist party created famines specifically to target Ukrainians

No it's about as real as the holocaust

you fucking moron, unlike the holodomor the holocaust was intentional. I hope you are just shitposting

ow ok so that means mao didnt kill tens of millions. because it wasnt intentional. kill yourself

No legitimate historians question that Soviet policies contributed to suffering during this period of famine.

At the same times no legitimate historians believe these policies constitute an act of genocide, or were even specifically targeted against Ukrainians.

A higher percentage of Kazakhs suffered under this famine, but they don't whine about Russian genocide because Kazakh politicians suck up to Russia, not the EU.

>Everything wrong in the soviet union is the fault of the kulaks
>Take away their food and land and any incentive to work hard
>Food production collapses
>Soviets seize what food supplies remain from the area that provides the food
>Millions of people die, child mortality spikes and millions more (children) die of malnutrition and starvation

>2017
>shieeeet we dindu nuthin it wuz dem muthafuckin kulaks

The Soviets were following a policy of Rusification of all its non-Russian territory, makes total sense why Kazakhs would also be targeted.

This is accurate.

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>We're coming to take it no matter what

what about some proof of that being true tho

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which book

Who would win?

>Chairman Mao Zedong 毛泽东, leader of one of the largest nations in the world?
>One species of feathery boi?

Red Famine: Stalin's War on Ukraine
, Anne Applebaum

I really don't understand the internet commie obsession with refuting the Holodomor - isn't it more embarrassing that Soviet incompetence caused the famine, instead of a policy of passive genocide enacted by Stalin?

They supported lysenkoism in the middle of a famine. That's all you need to know.

The problem is that its a double edge sword
1 edge: Stalin did it those Ukrainians deserved it
That literally makes them no different than the Nazi's
2nd edge: Soviet incompetence caused the famine
this proves the superiority of capitalism and democracy, there is no way it would happen here

Well how else are your crops meant to understand the proletarian struggle and embrace natural cooperation?

I think the current escape-clause for /leftypol/ is a combination of "It was the environment, stupid", "famines always happen in Russia" and "let's be honest, hohol scum deserved it "

that's completely wrong.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korenizatsiya#End_of_korenization

Soviets were pursuing anti-Russification policies during the time of the supposed holodomor

>Applebaum
oy vey, i wonder why do only people like (((Montefiore))) or (((Applebaum))) write about how evil Stalin was

/pol/ tier argument

Lol

Kazakhstan is a desert
Ukraine is the breadbasket of Europe
there's no reason that Ukrainians should ever be starving at a rate above the rate that Kazakhs starve at

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>was it result of soviet government incompetence?
yes
>did it specifically targeted ukrainians?
no, a lot of russians and kazak people died too

This, it's better to contextualize it by comparing it to the amount of people starving every year today under capitalism in "non-famine" conditions.

That said the "communism killed 100 trillion people" crowd gets annoying enough that it's nice to take them down a peg from time to time, even though Stalin was still a bad guy.

Woa I bet it really did go down like this - those rude capitalist peasants are so mean, Stalin asked them so nicely as well :(

Like this?

There are many books or articles that refute the "Holodomor" myth that was chiefly concocted by Ukrainian nationalists. The most prominent refutation is perhaps Davies/Wheatcroft (2004): "The Years of Hunger". Read it.

But also other articles by these authors and others, such as Stephan Merl (Germany) and, most of all, famine expert Mark Tauger. See Tauger (1991): "The 1932 Harvest and the Famine of 1933" as well as Tauger (2001): "Natural Disaster and Human Actions in the Famine of 1931-33"

Generally, the Holodomor myth is rejected by most (I'd say all) serious historians. But of course there are the few authors that continue to peddle it: Already in the 80s, when Robert Conquest first published his book "Harvest of Sorrow", he was met with a broad alliance of almost universal rejection by most established historians such as: Getty, Manning, Viola, Dallinn and others.