Do corrupt republics deserve to fall into enlightened despotism?

Do corrupt republics deserve to fall into enlightened despotism?

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Fuck
I watched this a few years ago and sided unconditionally with Yenli

But TODAY I decided to watch some episodes and scenes again and due to the changes in politics in my country and others during these years I'm actually dreaming with a Kaiser Reinhard

Yes because
Corrupt republics = weak men
Enlightened Despots = strong men
Despots therefore create good times.

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>Despots therefore create good times.

wew

>Augustus Caesar

>Deserve to fall into enlightened despotism

Absolutely! A man of virtue and wisdom should turn the ship around when the systems of the republic grow to corrupt to alter its course. However that is quite a fanciful notion

Republics fall into degenerate populist tyrannies, or at least tyrannies that started in populist fervor. Exhibit A: Modern day US of A

>mfw anti-republic fags like to reference LOGH despite the show having the most solid argument for republicanism over dictatorship
Not even the author could deny that

The problem comes after the enlightened despot dies and you have the unlimited power of his regime placed in the hands of someone who may not be so enlightened.

Was Yang cucked by the >F>P>A or by (((Phezzan)))?

Both, I rewatched the Battle of Vermilion today and goddamn, what a disgrace

Author
>One country has almost double the population and a higher technology level over the other
>Lol the country with the higher GDP gets bankrupted from one failed invasion with the other do far more shit
So evident in the way Yang died and Julian can't really match his mentor by BTFO of Reinhard like Yang did

From the Mahabharata

” Bhedey ganaah vineyshur hi bhinnaastu sujayaah paraih
Tasmaat sanghaatyogen prayateran ganaah sadaa”

“Republics are destroyed only by internal conflicts between the people

Therefore republics should always seek to maintain good relations among the people”
and also :

“Teshaam ayonyabhinnaanaam swashaktim anutishthataam
Nigrahah panditaih kaaryah kshipramev pradhaanatah”

” Therefore the wise people in a republic should crush the chiefs of the wicked persons who try to divide the people”

youtube.com/watch?v=GmPrZkOIIvE

Do shitty remakes deserve to exist?

Brunhild looks like shit
The lasers look like shit
Yang Wenli is supposed to be older than that

NO
youtube.com/watch?v=S-XFL78aG2s

Blame fucking Bucock that took to long in arresting Thruhnit

That's a coup d'etat you're asking for

This guy deserves to be coup'd

but then democracy is dead anyway
Yang was cucked by his own ideology

How is that a coup d'etat?

He sure did.

Why didn't ANY of ther other ships in the fleet shoot at Reinhard.

Why didn't Attenborough shoot. He was seething at the order given by Heinessen

How is that NOT a coup d'etat? Military man kills chancellor/prime minister/president and takes power ilegally

Although, if I recall correctly, in that scene Heinessen is being besieged so you might say there wasn't a State anymore but even then, Bucock wanted to sacrifice the planet

He was about to literally remove Truhnit from the chair of command

No intention to overtake the government only to stall it. At best an assassination

>so you might say there wasn't a State anymore but even then, Bucock wanted to sacrifice the planet
There still was a state, but the leader was not acting in its interest and Bucock was

Do corrupt despotisms deserve to fall into enlightened republicanism?

>No intention to overtake the government only to stall it. At best an assassination

Who would issue orders after that?

>There still was a state, but the leader was not acting in its interest and Bucock was
If Bucock tried that at any other moment I would agree (it would still be a coup) but I don't think having Heinessen glassed would be good for the Alliance

>Who would issue orders after that?
Who cares? Bucock just needed the FPA gov to not respond in time for Yang to kill Reinhard. When the 2nd in command takes over that would have already happened

>I don't think having Heinessen glassed would be good for the Alliance
Then clearly you didn't watched the show in detail. The loss of its capital for the death of the enemy's most capable leader and a following civil war is a good trade off, one that Yang was willing to risk it. Plus the Imperial fleet will stop glassing once they heard Reinhard is dead, just as how Yang stopped attacking when he heard Heinessen surrendered.

Of course. It's almost like there's a natural cycle of decadence and renewal at work...

Commoners don't give a flying fuck about equality and shit

>Bucock just needed the FPA gov to not respond in time for Yang to kill Reinhard
He didn't know that

>one that Yang was willing to risk it.
He wasn't. The Heinessen assault was a surprise

>Plus the Imperial fleet will stop glassing once they heard Reinhard is dead, just as how Yang stopped attacking when he heard Heinessen surrendered.
I'd wager they would glass it as revenge.
And Yang stopped out of respect for civilian authority over military

Only an infallible and righteous leader should be a despot and he should be immortal so corruption would be impossible....like a god emperor

>He didn't know that
He knew Yang is engaging Reinhard right then and Yang's overall strategy

>He wasn't. The Heinessen assault was a surprise
He literally did. The whole Fabian tactics was to eventually draw out and kill Reinhard and let the Empire fall to civil war. The generals didnt stomp the capital coz they feared Yang will not surrender and keep fucking them over (as expected). It was only Maidenoff who realized that would not happened.

>I'd wager they would glass it as revenge.
Don't be retarded. The red and blue cape general (forgot how to spell their names) are too 'noble' to do that. The whole point of the story are about noble people fighting for republicianism and dictatorship.

>And Yang stopped out of respect for civilian authority over military
Yes that is what I already said

They attacked Heinessen only when Hilda convinced Mittermeyer to attack it heaed on to help Reinhard and to bring his mate Reuental with him.

If it weren't for her, nobody would have attacked Heinessen.

Yes that was exactly my point. Yang's plan hedged on the assumption that Reinhard's generals like Reinhard himself would try to search and destroy him as their victory condition. He didn't know there was be a non-military person that would convince some generals to disobey their emperor to win strategically.

Literally the aftermath of the Battle was the narrator's lamentation that Yang and Reinhard got what the other wanted, Yang wanted a strategic victory but got a tactical one and vice versa for Reinhard. Watch the fucking series.

how'd that work out for post weimar germany?

The government eventually got better

Hitler was not an enlighten despot. He was a methed up manlet with syphilis rotting his brain that gave shitty orders to generals that knew better than him.

Dude literally got into a shouting match with Guderian, fired him, brough him back cause things on eastern front was still shit, got into another shouting match. Dismissed Manstein and only appointed people who wouldn't tell him his plans were shit.

Fucker then blames the German people for losing the war.

Reinhard was a better general than his generals.

so this show is basically stars wars if it was acutely a space opera and the empire was portrayed more neutrally?

i dig

everything about this looks like shit

so what you're saying is real enlightened despotism has never been tried?

So what your saying is basing your government on a single person and hoping he's an amazing god king is a bad idea.

The five emperors period in Rome begs to differ

The rest of roman history after them kind of refutes your point.

Never put your faith in the power of one man, no matter how great. You'll be disappointed eventually.

The Reich at its worst wasn't cucked by (((terraism)))

I thought the author was a republicboo, why would he deny that.

>republicboo

>republic gets BTFO so hard Autocracy rules the galaxy and next two emperors are algo GOAT tier

SeeI don't even want to begin how much of Reinhard's dick the author was sucking. I swear he imagines himself as Kischeis.

Is LOGH worth watching or is it just a meme?

Yes.

Hitler like Napoleon lost the war and in consequence lost the conquests gained under their mandates. But to begin with, these conquests would not even exist if they had not come to power.

Even with its flaws, it should not be denied that both were "enlightened despots". Which is not necessarily something totally good, in a moral sense. I say totally because during Napoleon France managed to maintain its national territory, but in its greed of conquest killed hundreds of thousands, Hitler managed to stop the total degeneration of the German spirit, but ... well, we know how that ended.

>Hitler was not an enlighten despot.
Get a load of this cuck.

Its worth trying

It most definitely is.

Prepare for good quotes

He is though, and Yang is his self-insert.

The absolute monarchy ends with Reinhard. And a parliament is installed to keep the monarch in check.
Not to mention that the show throws the issues with autocracies in your face all the time. It doesn't fully take one side and admits that republics have their own flaws, but maybe this bit of ambiguity is already too much for people to handle, who are used to one-sided propaganda in their media.

Rewatch season 4 again.
>Oh instead of generals engaging in coups in a cynical grab for power like autocracies in RL I am going to have one do it for noble and tragic reasons
>Oh no the poor emperor dies of a bullshit disease before he can transition the war time nation to a peace time one by slowly disarming the generals who served him ;(
>Oh no the most destabilizing man conveniently died by Terraists
Also the constitutional monarchy is up in the air with Reinhard letting Hilda decide

Hilda will be a GOAT Kaiserin and Alexander Siegfried with Felix at his side cannot fail

Sure as hell won't live up to his father's fame

Pretty sure the last scene implied that Felix will depose Alexander. Regardless the point is the author is no republicboo and is in fact a empireboo

>deposing Alex when Reinhard himmself gave him the command of being a Kircheis to him

>enlightened depotism
There is no such thing. At least not after 19th century. I can't think of a single example from 20th century.

Hitler was not like Napoleon and he wasn't an "enlightened despot".

Hilda has always been receptive to republican ideas. Not to mention that the counter-example to anyone arguing that it would be great to hand all the power to a seemingly perfect man has been presented in Rudolf the Great. And even Reinhard wasn't perfect, given the Westerland example. If you believe LOGH made a case for autocracy you haven't been paying attention since the show told you all the time that no matter how perfect an autocrat seems, he may turn at any given point into Rudolf and then you have no peaceful way to get rid of him. As crappy as Truniht was, he had to be populist in order to be re-elected, and the people could have disposed of him at any given election if he went against what they perceived to be their best interest.

They both sold themselves to the public as enlightened despots but turned out to be oppressors in the end.

unironically one of my favorite pieces of fiction bar none. also Yang Wenli became a personal hero. if youre on Veeky Forums and dont hate the devils paintings youll love it

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Mixed thoughts on Lee Kuan Yew:

- he did it because he wanted a nation built from his vision
- he succeeded through staunch and firm ideologies
- backlash to the society, but this happens in *any* countries exercising legislative force, coming through all the spectrum of govt policies

but i guess all in all Singapore and where it stands in the world today owes much to him.

It's a fantastic exploration of systems and historical trends without trying to be preachy propaganda. Characters are definitely passionate about their beliefs but most acknowledge flaws and the anime does a good job of really digging into as many aspects as possible

Amazing, Hitler united all of Germany and gave them a sense of place, then stopped Europe from becoming communist.

A lot better than whatever bullshit we have now, that's for damn sure.

>Hitler didn't listen to his generals meme

And take your history channel documentary with you

Reminder that his private diary said he was trying to infiltrate and soften the blows of autocracy/steer things back to democracy when the opportunity arises.

Of course, they also say he could have been full of shit and just had that in case so he could protect his legacy. It's unanswered.

Hitler , Franco, Mussolini

Nah she strikes me as pragmatic instead of republican

>If you believe LOGH made a case for autocracy
Oh don't get me wrong, if anything LOGH made an argument for republicanism despite what /pol/fags like to LARP. It is just that sucking too much Reinhard's dick plot wise, especially so in Season 4

>It is another LKY did everything instead having an all star first cabinet that slowly diminishes with each iteration episode

>Protect his legacy
>By supporting autocracy
But that would be ruining his legacy desu.

>Oh no, autocracy sucks because at any point someone who has power can abuse it
>Luckily THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE CAN NEVER BE WRONG
>because fuck whats right, as long as it's popular its good enough

>Luckily THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE CAN NEVER BE WRONG
Clearly you haven't been paying attention if you think the show made that argument.

>Hitler united all of Germany and gave them a sense of place, then stopped Europe from becoming communist.

Atatürk would probably be a better example because he legitimately used the position as dictator to bring his country into the modern world. Unlike your "enlightened despots" that were little more than conservative military dictators (though at least he did have the Spanish economic miracle going for him) or abject egoistical failures.

>Imagine being so autistic that you think otherwise
Guess who all left Germany after Hitler took power? Communists and Jews. Guess which Pan-German movement actually made Germany into a powerhouse again and tried to reunite Germans under one banner?

>Ataturk was awesome because he was secular
>But your examples suck.because they are all conservative
>All that matters is economic quality and output, even though both Hitler and Mussolini turned their countries into dominant regional forces
Cringe

Guess which movement and leader got Germany divided in three, one part annexed by Poland, one occupied by communist Russians and the third occupied by Anglos, Frenchmen and Americans?

And yes, being conservative is somewhat in opposition to being an enlightened despot. Part of what defines an enlightened despot is embracing rational enlightenment values and modernising the country.

What does "deserve" mean?

Why does something deserve over not deserving? What controls this factor?

Krishna confirmed Redpilled.

Ah yes, germany. Literally split into 4 occupied zones. truly the regional powerhouse

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lotgh is shit and only retarded weebs like it because they haven't read aristotle

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Why would you hang a man before throwing him out of a helicopter?

>And yes, being conservative is somewhat in opposition to being an enlightened despot. Part of what defines an enlightened despot is embracing rational enlightenment values and modernizing the country.
Because there's no such thing as trying to conserve any of those, right? You're either an enlightened, rational liberal or a regressive conservative, right? Nice selective logic you have there, I'm sure it lines up perfectly with your rational and enlightened political views. No such thing as conservative modernizers either.

>Dude he lost the war lmao
I'm sorry, but nuclear reactors and man landing on the moon are due to whose technological achievements? Who nearly singlehandedly conquered all of Europe? What placed revolutionary new changes in the German workplace and society that united Germans and lead to an age of prosperity until Britain came in and fucked it up for trying prevent Pan-Germanism from coming into fruition? Hitler's Germany

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Heisenberg
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun

>""""""rational enlightenment"""""" values and modernising the country.
Pffffftttt
>He fell for the positivist and empiricist memes
Topkek

>Because there's no such thing as trying to conserve any of those, right?
Pretty much all historical enlightened despots are identified by advancing their country, not simply preserving something. Part of what defines the enlightened despots we have in history is instituting liberal reforms (though it's always a bit of a problem to call a literal despot a liberal) and using their power for the good of the people/country. Conservatism is quite literally about the status quo and historically about preserving the power of the monarch himself and the elite. While the same isn't quite true today since enlightenment and basic liberal values are pretty much universally accepted in the west even now conservatism is generally focused on the interests of a society's elite (whether or not it can be argued that their policies are in the long run for the benefit of everyone).

But no, it's not as simple a division at that. Which is why I wrote that it is "somewhat" in opposition. For example the Pahlavi shahs and Salazar were more or less conservative (at least in certain areas like the monarchy for the Pahlavis) while also being significant modernisers and reformers. And arguably all historical enlightened absolutists are conservative due to their attachment to the monarchy, but it wouldn't really be conservative from the perspective of the time generally speaking.

>Imagine being this much of a newfag
You know can be a liberal conservative, conservative thought goes beyond appeals to ad antiquitatem , right? It isn't about preserving the rights of the elite it's about recognizing the importance of hierarchy and authority, mixed with concepts of the imperatives a citizen must have to help his community - duty.

Aristocratic Republics can have people from the plebian class move upwards into the class, it's about setting pre-requisites needing to be met to prove your competence. Today's conservatives are just nationalistic liberals with a sense of pride in muh democracy and muh egalitarianism

>It isn't about preserving the rights of the elite it's about recognizing the importance of hierarchy and authority

>Rights of the elite
>Duties of every citizen
Imagine being such a newfag that you think giving rights to the rich is the same as supporting aristocratic values on a national and republican scale.

Just imagine that. Think of the autism

Couldn't we just genetically and socially engineer the perfect leader?

I think we'd sooner program one

I don't know. Could a program really give a speech equal to someone like Mosley? Would we feel the same sense of unity with it?

Make an example? Fly his hanged corpse around the city?

Literally Veeky Forums: the anime, even though it is set in the future.

It being set in the future is irrelevant, it's basically the Napoleonic Wars in Space starring Alexander the Great