At what point did you realize Cicero was right about everything?

Sardinia`s didn`t matter thou. Traveling time between Rome and Sardinia was like 20 years back in those days.

>he does not subscribe to Mark Bantony

Could you post the names?

Cicero is the king of banter:

youtube.com/watch?v=pGd96SH57SA

>Virgin Kikero
>Spends his life and destroys his reputation trying to "save the Republic" (saving a corpse lol)
>Chad Caesar
>Realizes the Republic's fucked anyway and ensures his impact on the transition is remembered most of all

Gonna post the frog titles because laziness.

''Plaidoyer for Sextus Roscius''
''Les Catilinaires''
''Discours sur l'amitié''
''Discours sur le vieil âge''.
''Discours sur la mort''.

Those are my favorite. His discourse on old age LEGIT cured my existential crisis.

Do you want me to find the English titles? Might as well.

>Those are my favorite. His discourse on old age LEGIT cured my existential crisis.

How so?

friendly reminder that the entire """conspiracy""" of catiline was ciceros work. Catiline was a gud boi, he dindu nuffin wrong! He worked againt (((their))) interests, but fucking Kikero was in the bags.

i never understood why he was so butthurt about sardinians

Hard to explain.

Cicero writes that you can be old without losing much of your mental and physical edge, if you commit to permanent exercices and spiritual health. That's what I wanted to read, because I felt like it was ''too late'' to unNEET myself and that fueled by existential crisis.

Cicero taught me it can't be too late if you fanatically stay disciplined and commited. Cicero's words are relevant even today, and even on 4chin-chin.

t. ex-welfare NEET and current gym rat with a job.

Sounds like a message r9k needs.

Yeah. Romans had no shrinks and no autismpills. They had to find actual solutions to their problems. And actual consolations against their sorrow.

>nothings wrong with u just fanatically stay disciplined and commited its so ezpz lmao
K Y S
Y
S

Read the books. Shut the fuck up. Apply what the books say. Shut the fuck up. See results, appreciate them and shut the fuck up some more.

When he deflowered a 14 year old for her money

Recommendations?

>Kikeron

He is certainly not without accomplishments.

...

>only blight
And what a blight it is, fuck. Cicero was just another opportunist in a long line of violators of the mos maiorum. In my opinion violating the mos maiorum in and of itself isn't a bad act, but what Cicero did was. Whether land and wealth redistribution happened through some kind of commission headed by Catiline, or the civil wars and proscriptions after Caesar's death making Augustus wealthy enough to do the same, the results are the same...but less bloody had Cicero not been a law-defying hypocrite.

What we know of Caesar as a lawyer and statesman actually makes me think that he would not have preferred the route he took. But what choice did he have? Disband legions to go home and be condemned in kangaroo court, stay in Gaul to die or be assassinated as a rebel criminal with no funding or supplies or new recruits, or do what he did?

>kangaroo court
Cicero was well within his rights to execute them without a trial, even without the evidence he had or the approval of the senate he requested. A trial wouldn't have saved their lives. As for whether this precedent forced Caesar's hand, Julius should have thought of that before using his consular immunity to break laws that could be punished by death, and that was hardly Cicero's responsibility.

>Cicero was well within his rights to execute them without a trial
>rights to execute
>without a trial
I don't think you understand how law works

That's an outright falsity, no Roman civilian who didn't take up arms against the state could be executed without trial.

The rightness of Caesar's actions isn't what I was arguing, but that he had little choice after a point, whereas Cicero just steamrolled ahead with being a snobby, insecure paranoiac.

When Cicero was around, life expectancy was 40. Now it's 80. Are his lessons still applicable?

The senate had already passed the senatus consultum ultimum at that point.

sauce?

the legality of senatus consultum has always been considered as having extremely weak legal justification, which was why Caesar was able to use the law to argue that he was defending it. Had Cicero not turned to what basically amounts to an executive order, and had just gone through the proper procedure, Caesar would have had no argument, but instead Cicero made himself a hypocrite for no reason.

It may have been either strong or weak as a justification, but that does not make it illegal. We could argue it should have been more or less powerful (as they have), but that doesn't change what it was at the moment Cicero exercised it.

This meme should die a terrible death. If you made it to adulthood and weren't a slave, 60 was a reasonable life expectancy.

True

and "technically" nothing Caesar did was illegal while he was dictator, and yet people still hold it against him. This is a thread about Cicero's character.

That is true, but he also did illegal things while he was not a dictator or didn't have consular immunity which is not comparable to Cicero's "only blight". And I'd say this is an important distinction to make when discussing Cicero's character, if in a previous post he was painted an opportunist and hypocrite while citing the illegality of this particular action as a reason for it.

And I'd say that another important distinction to make when discussing Cicero's character is the context of his arguments, which were in defense of an extremely corrupt system that was going the way of Sparta by allowing gridlock in government to prevent the republic from actually addressing the problems that were tearing it down. When taking into consideration the context of Caesar's illegal actions, he can justify himself by claiming to glorify and enrich Rome in spite of the forces that would ruin it. Caesar's "illegal" actions had the net result of enriching Rome for centuries and removing their biggest and most existential threat. Caesar avenged the sacking of Rome in the eyes of the people of Rome, he was "making Rome great again," and even if he did it for selfish reasons, he was still doing what was best for Rome whilst the Senate was doing what was best for the Senate

Pls user...I'm with you (Cicero is a paranoiac post here) but this post is easy to attack. Keep it simple: we never brought up Caesar, Cicero was wrong no matter what.

It's not a competition, and I think it's been long enough that we can look back and see the net result of their actions. Even assuming the republic wasn't a disaster long before either man was born, even assuming it wasn't going to shit eventually, Cicero is still left with a brilliant opportunity to subvert revolutionary tension via compromise, allowing land reform and extending the viability of the republic. Instead, he decided to make a decision that would embolden the forces that would destroy the republic. So in attempting to defend the republic, Cicero expedited it's destruction. I always like to compare this to the English and French revolutions. England mitigated revolutionary fever with compromise, France could not do the same and was swallowed by it. Same thing happened in Rome: you either give people an avenue to vent, or you close all the vents and let the pressure build until it explodes. If you do the latter, you are responsible for the explosion.

I see that you guys love to talk about rome republic

>Sulla was red-blond,[35] blue-eyed, and had a dead-white face covered with red marks.[36] Plutarch, the ancient historian, notes that Sulla considered that "his golden head of hair gave him a singular appearance".[37]

tfw Cicero is always right

So why all roman mosaics and portraits show dark haired, light eyed people with not pale skin?
I mean, Germanics could have edited that

Very good analysis user. And in abusing the senatus consultum ultimum to his own optimate ends Cicero even further deepened the rift between latifundi-owning senators and equestrians, and the average legionaries.

tfw Cicero and every other Roman except for maybe Scaevola mk1 and both famous Decii Muses are pussies compared to Sulla

>singular appearance
Rome was something of a diverse place for a long time even before the Empire, much of Northern Italy (Cisalpine Gaul) had been settled by Celts for centuries. Did you know that some pigments oxidize and weather over time?

...

>Tfw you come home from a long day and she wants the d

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Illyrian_theories
>The earliest use of iron in Central Europe was to be attributed to Illyrians and not to the Celts.[2]
>autochthonous Illyrian theory

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adriatic_Veneti
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vistula_Veneti
>They are one of the tribes that are suspected as the ancestors of some or all of today's Slavs.

Is Nietzsche a cuck compared to him?

>When Cicero was around, life expectancy was 40. Now it's 80. Are his lessons still applicable?

Child mortality heavily skewered life expectancy. So first, ignore all child deaths. Second, the rich lived longer. If you were rich, and lived past childhood, you could expect to live 70 or more years. Pretty standard. Cicero himself was in his 60's at the time.

i cant imagine how there nobody has discovered traces of protein or dna on these paintings. so sexy. look at those crevices, man. call it art, call it beautiful, i call it my next fap. just thinking about emptying my sack while rubbing the taint. god, spilling it all in a sock and throwing it under my bed, for later use. fuckk

>And what a blight it is, fuck.

Our standards for the ancient world should be pretty low. Most of these guys are genociders, with giant skull piles. Caesar himself murdered 41,000 civilians in Gaul for example. What Cicero did pales in comparison. The conspirators were guilty, and would have lost in a trial anyways.

I've only read two books written by Nietszche. Can't compare in good faith, altough Nietszche's style felt austere to me while Cicero's style felt colorful, intimate and warm.

Reading Cicero's books feels like you're getting advices and opinions from a benevolent friend with plenty of life experience. I almost felt a brohug when I read his discourse on old age.

No joke, I think you should take your Cicero-inspired story and life philosophy to r9k. Spread the word to them.

I find a lot of ancient writing is written in a more natural, conversational style, while a lot of 18th019 Cen authors are much harder. Dense, obtuse, vague, kind of poetric writing. it seems to have been the style at the time.

Could be an idea. It would make Cicero more widespread.

I don't know if that's a general rule, but holy trigglypuff is Aristotle a pain in the poetics to read and understand.

I feel like such a brainlet because I found Republic and Apology extremely interesting and inspiring, but I just can’t get into Aristotle or Kant or Schopenhauer because their writing is so dry and feels less decisive.

I feel you. I had to manually separate paragraphs of Aristotle and Kant's work (with a ruler and a pencil) and read them 2-3-4 times until I understood them.

One could say I'm a stubborn brainlet.

By placing total control over Rome into a heriditary position, as respect for Emperors fell, civil war was almost assured,

Dudes, what is it about treatises written in the form of letter or especially dialogues that make it so good?
It is because they look more like an oral tradition?

it's not like rome was doing a good job preventing civil war before the principate, they were deep in shit during the Sulla/Marius years as well and that was before any sort of emperor. Strong men were rising in rome, the principate was the endgame of that natural rise, it was going to happen eventually. These problems can be traced long before Caesar.

The principate ultimately became the best form of government they'd ever had anyways

source that celts were light people?

@3605104
please nobody give this namefag a (you)

oh no source, nice

@3605171
I'm not that guy it's just that you have a reputation, so I'm saving these people the trouble of moving forward with the pretense that you are worth talking to.

grow up, son

@3605186
by all means keep bumping the thread, I do enjoy my republican roman history. It's just that nobody will be responding to your race-bait trolling specifically, but know that I do appreciate your efforts in keeping this thread alive regardless.

Any good audiobooks on YouTube? Am povertyfag here

>republican roman history
but it isnt your history, if you are italian, your history start at 486 AD

you are either full germanic or mixed germanic, LARPer

@3605217
I'm actually 97% English and 3% southwestern European but you know, thanks for bumping the thread again. I have no racial or ethnic connection to these people, I just enjoy their history. So unfortunately your race-baiting was off-point this time, but I'm sure you'll strike gold eventually; just not in this thread after I've already warned everyone what your game is

>thanks for bumping the thread again
im saging

>. So unfortunately your race-baiting was off-point this time
its not race baiting

i just dont believe germanic lies about ancient latins

@3605235
nah see, you're giving me a reason to post without saging, so you're helping me bump the thread without breaking the rules. What you do personally is irrelevant as long as you post, but feel free to keep trying (helping me bump and all that)

how old are you?

do you live in UK?

Does killing the guy reading the scroll not punished
by law or something ?

probably, but I don't think that actually happened. If it did, the consul is the one person that probably could get away with it

>tfw you're reading something but your mind keeps drifting to something else and you finish the paragraph and you have no idea what it said
I think I have ADHD

Stick to Cicero.

Your mind won't drift. Your mind doesn't drift when you have a beer with an old buddy.

I think it's because the author usually drops the formal bullshit and goes straight to the point in a likable manner.

cato the elder was right about everything

kike-ero was a shyster who supported augustus and brought down the republic

>saying some jew lawyer was right
Veeky Forums really?

Type ''Cicero audiobook'' in the search bar. There's a lot of Bro-ceronian classics in the results.

... there's even ''On old age''.

youtube.com/watch?v=EErXWuv8iBg

Enjoy, buddy. ;')

It's not enough for you to shit up the other thread with this race baiting bullshit, is it?
>source that celts were light people?
oh gee I dunno have you ever fucking looked at the Irish? of course not, you've probably never left your shitty 3rd world island

...

Doesn't that mean that they would be even more applicable today?

when I stopped sucking Julius' dick all the time

Im just asking for a source, you cant take the irish as they may be germanic, germanics mixed with them when they invaded brittania

>medshit
>being right

Historia Civilis, is that you?

It's a dramatic exaggeration, and probably a little too much. The hot blooded Marcus Antonius, probably wouldn't have done that.

I think the hbo portrayal of antonius was too radical and their portrayal of cicero was too young and cowardly, they changed the characters to give it an arc that fit the actors and was more dramatic and physical.

Never because Cicero was an idealistic shit that was defending a Republic that died long before he was born.

G A U L E D

>Quintilian preserves the story that when it was put to Cicero that it really was not on for a man in his 60s to be marrying a teenage girl, he replied: “Well, she’ll be a grown woman tomorrow.”

Pretty alpha

Say that to my face barbarian