So why does no one ever talk about the genocide of the Picts by the Sc*ts?

>being culturally absorbed is now the same as genocide
Veeky Forums was a mistake

More like an ethnocide

cultural genocide ;^)

>all traces of the Picts, their art, and their language mysteriously vanish after the Sc*ts take over
>"yeah guys it was clearly ultural assimilation"

their culture vanished.

I've been meaning to create a

>ywn be a Pict

thread on Veeky Forums but I couldn't be fussed as it would have called for a fairly elaborate pepe/wojak to properly convey the feeling.

How should I be imagining these early medieval Picts? Did they still look like the Roman descriptions of them?

Yes and you'll disappear as well if you keep spreading false propaganda.

>Picts
no such thing

Not by the medieval times, looked probably like the Anglo-Saxons or medieval Welsh

t. Kenneth "kill all Picts with ice picks" McAlpin

So they were people with light features?

Well they were Celtic

Who were the people who inhabited Scotland before the Scots took over then?

But Romans said celtics were swarthy

Do you any source that celtic people were similar to germanics?

i bet you think the english are all pure anglo-saxon germanic too.

The Scots inter-married and inherited the pictish throne so pictland became scotland.

The Seelie, duh.

there were many different celtic groups and "germanic" isn't a phenotype.

Oh my mistake, I thought you were referring to how the Roman said they painted their entire bodies and fought Naked. I'm not sure how accurate the account of them being swarthy considering Celtic people tend to be pretty white.

I mean, pretty much anyone who spends most of their time out in the sun is going to have a pretty deep tan, and I don't think the Romans were doing ethnographies in the winter.

But do you have any source saying that celtics were light people?
Romans said celtics were swarthy people, they didnt say that they were people with light features

They said they had dark hair and dark eyes

I too remember when the Simpsons were actually funny.

youtube.com/watch?v=c7JOcHKMLKQ

I'm the guy that asked the question, and that's exactly what I was referring to. Not skin stuff, but whether they would be wearing armor or still putting blue paint on their bodies

they were modern europeans so yes they were.

I wondered what happened to the pikeys

Begorah, how dare you utter this anti-Caledonic rhetoric?

Aren't their languages related

Could it not simply be that the Goidelic culture was both accessible and carried more prestige due to their literate society and Christianization

Modern Scotsmen are hilarious.

>Lowlands are heavily Anglo-Saxon'd during the migration
>Highland Picts get Gael'd during at the same time
>Hebrides/Northern Isles are heavily Norwegian'd during the viking age
>Lowlands are heavily Anglo-Saxon'd again after the Norman conquest
>Combine all these completely different people and create a Kingdom

Had Scotland remained independent they would be speaking a language eerily similar to English regardless. The culturally dominant Northumbrian Anglo-Saxon language in lower Scotland evolved in to an Old English dialect. If ANYTHING modern Scotland would be closer to Anglo-Saxon England than the modern English. The country is a linguistic, ethnic and cultural mess and so their united "Scottish" culture is entirely artificial, created in the following centuries in an attempt to differentiate themselves from the English.

Truly Scotlands greatest embarrassment is having memesters living in the hills claiming to be Scottish nationalists while speaking and Irish language using the name of their conquerors to identify themselves. Its the same as the "we're the true Britons" Welsh and the "We're all 100% germanic and not Britons" English.

>Aren't their languages related
They're both Celtic but Pictish wasn't Goidelic, it related to common Brithonic, Cumbric, and Welsh

>the Goidelic culture was both accessible and carried more prestige due to their literate society and Christianization

The Picts were already Christian by the time Kenneth MacAlpin took over and neither culture was completely literate either

It's the Jooootes!

Should modern Scots...

A) Feel ashamed that their Gaelic ancestors genocided the native Picts?
B) Hate the ancient Scots for destroying the culture of their Pictish ancestors?
C) Claim that Kenneth MacAlpin was actually a Pict?
D) All of the above?

>braindead redditor cannot detect sarcasm without an /s

Go back to the meme thread

I think you're the one who failed the sarcasm check.

I've actually heard people claim C before despite the fact that Kenneth was king of Dal Riata and his families names were Gaelic

Oh, I know I didn't come up with the idea. I was just amused at how easily you can frame the debate in modern identity politics.

cringe

ulsterman aren't descendend from scots

that was actual english not lowlanders

>pointless spacing
You have no right to say what is cringe and what is not.

no think colin farrell george clooney, and manlet

>Romans said celtics were swarthy people, they didnt say that they were people with light features

yes, they did. They described gauls as blond and redheaded, and the celts in east britain and northern ireland as blond

weak

Because it's a myth.

Absolutely no proof of it, apart from a few stories from centuries later. What we now think happened was that the rightful heir a to the Pictish throne were overthrown in a coup, and fled to Ireland as young children. Eventually they became culturally Gaelic, and then retook the throne. From there, Gaelic culture was spread to the kingdom to the point where the Pictish language died out.

The ONLY evidence we have of the Picts "suddenly disappearing" is that the Irish chronicles start calling the Kings of the Picts the "Kings of Alba" instead.

That's literally it. We have no destruction layer at Pictish sites, we have no mass graves, we have no evidence for the language disappearing overnight.

I can't remember his name, but I recall reading some historian remarking once that the great tragedy of Scotland is that they don't have a language of their own: just broken English and broken Irish.

In terms of pronunciation, Scots still is closer to Old English than any other extant dialect outside perhaps parts of the West Country

Oh, yeah, right, they're descended from all those native Irishmen who were happy to convert to Protestantism and start speaking a Scots dialect.

Sounds like Starkey, but he's a meme historian who just likes controversy.

Nah, they're descended from Englishmen.

He unironically claimed Henry VIII invented the concept of romance, for instance.

I'm not sure where you are getting that story from but I've never heard it. It seems very unlikely that a minority of Gaels were able to impose their language and culture on the large majority of Picts to such a level that the Pictish language disappeared within a generation of the MacAlpins coming to power. And I know that most of the stories are told centuries after the fact, but lots of stories about Scotland are like that because written documents were rare in medieval Pictland

Most of what you say is untrue. There are several stories by later Scottish chroniclers talking about how the Pictish nobility were all killed by Gaels. And the Language while not dissapearing overnight, still disappeared pretty fast.

>I'm not sure where you are getting that story from but I've never heard it

My Early Medieval Scottish History course at the University of Edinburgh.

>but lots of stories about Scotland are like that because written documents were rare in medieval Pictland

That does not change the fact the stories simply aren't very reliable.

>There are several stories by later Scottish chroniclers talking about how the Pictish nobility were all killed by Gaels.

That simply isn't evidence. They're stories.

The only actual evidence that is in any way reliable is the fact that the kings of the Picts start to be referred to as the kings of Alba by the Irish chronicles. The suggests that the kings themselves had started to call the land something else, that suggests a cultural change amongst the nobility.

>That simply isn't evidence. They're stories.

Well I guess we better dismiss most of written history then since they're just stories.

AROUND THE JOOTS
WATCH YOUR LOOTS

The very same written sources you're talking about also claim the Picts migrated to Scotland from Scythia.

Should we take that at face value as well?

It's also worth mentioning that the shift from Pictland to Alba happens long before Kenneth MacAlpine is even born. If the cultural shift hypothesis is correct, it would suggest that Pictish culture had been on the back heel for some considerable time before Kenneth became king.

Nevermind murdering a few nobles is completely different from the genocide you're advocating.

Because it didn't happen

It's also far more likely Kenneth MacAlpine was a King of Alba who united the kingdom with Dal Riata rather than a king of Dal Riata who conquered Alba, since Alba continues to become the senior partner and Dal Riata becomes something like a viceroyalty for the Albany heirs.

Naked gingers with blue body paint

This, I'm Scottish and we are just way too nice a people to have ever committed genocide, it's literally impossible. The Picts were just assimilated into our society.

If you guys are interested pick up Alex Woolf's book "From Pictland to Alba", it really gives the most up to date view of where we are with early Medieval Scottish history.

>This, I'm Scottish and we are just way too [s]nice[/s] drunk a people to have ever committed genocide, it's literally impossible.

FTFY

Nah cos the English get drunk all the time, and they're still cunts.

Yfw Scots stole the name Scotii and repackaged it as their own from the Irish to jew the Celtic Church out of land and wealth

Scottish identity is truly faux af

>like how there were Hellenists in isolated parts of Greece right to the 1100s.

woah, really?

Not murdering a few nobles, murdering the entire Pictish nobility

The Scythian story is clearly false though. The genocide is entirely possible. What's your proof that the Picts were already becoming Gaelized? How would the minority Gaels living in a different kingdom assimilate the majority Picts?

delete this thread please or i will be forced to take legal action

i think there were Romans isolated in the ottoman empirical hellas until the greek 1800s revolution.

No it is not entirely possible. Not without leaving some proof, which we simply do not have.

>What's your proof that the Picts were already becoming Gaelized?

Well I'm trying to remember a course I sat two years ago. Basically the Irish chronicles, which are actually contemporary and hence worth more than the vellum they're written on, start referring to the Kings of Pictland as being the kings of Alba either 6 kings before or 6 kings after Kenneth. I can't exactly remember, and they also argued that the king lists as they come down to us were fairly garbled anyway.

>How would the minority Gaels living in a different kingdom assimilate the majority Picts?

We don't know, but just because the precise mechanisms of cultural assimilation are difficult to imagine doesn't mean it isn't a thing. And it's still far more plausible than the genocide argument which is Medieval fantasy.

We still have no evidence it was anything more than a myth dreamt up hundreds of years after Kenneth's death.

And, again, killing a few nobles is a long way from genocide.

Yeah sorry, looked it up.

It's six kings AFTER Kenneth that the "kings of Alba" emerge. So if Kenneth was launching a genocide against the Picts, why did he and his descendants still call themselves their king?

We get the idea of a genocide of the Picts from the Medieval inability to understand the concept of a culture dying out.

For a Medieval person, if a language or a culture died out it could only be because the people who spoke that language where themselves gone. It goes back to the idea of the tower of Babel.

The Jews fear the Gael