Shia/Sunni Islam

1) What's the motherfucking difference?
2) How did the divide start?
3) Which group has been less barbaric?

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Its all political but they dont share some hadith and have different ones

But its mainly political, they are disagreeing over who was the rightful successor to the caliphate, 1300 years ago.

quite pathetic and detracts entirely from what islam is about

That may have been the origin, but there is simply no way people will hate and kill each other so passionately about a 1300 year old succession crisis. They had to have evolved into some sort of cultural identity split.

If you're hinting towards 'muh religion of peace' we've got a problem.

Right!?

1) At the basic root: Shias believe that leadership of Jizzlam is the sole responsibility of Muhammad's family. Sunnis don't, that the leadership ought to be by consensus. Shias believe more on the spiritual side of things, while Sunnis believe islam should encompass every aspect of human life, including the political realm. Some Shias- the Twelvers- have a messianic figure in the form of the Mahdi.
2) According to Shias: when Ali, Muhammad's son-in-law, was killed. But really, the first divide showed up with the emergence of the first Shiite state, the Fatimids in Egypt, who revolted against the Abbasids.
3) Most terror groups follow the Wahhabi version of Sunni Islamic interpretation. Shiites are just famous for running a theocracy in Iran.

Look up the Qarmatians. They were Shia that sacked Mecca. Hopefully one of Iran's mullahs goes crazy by worshiping fires and starts thinking he's Zoroastrian, and he decides to burn Mecca too like the Qarmatians. The black stone must be destroyed!

This. No one is even fighting about that anymore.

Thank you, lads. Islam really did fuck Iran up, huh?

Do you live under some rock?

(((America))) and Israel will rush to Saudi Arabias defense so that's unlikely unfortunately.

>What's the motherfucking difference?
Do know much but some of it is that they're stricter in their dietary regulations prohibiting rabbit also and shellfish along with other things possibly as well making them more similar to the Jews in their Kosher rules. Also tend to practice a lot of grave pilgrimage which is opposed by the fundamentalist camps.
There's also this practice.
jesus-is-savior.com/False Religions/Islamic Muslim/this_is_shiite_islam.htm

>Islam really did fuck Iran up, huh?
I'd rather have a Theocracy than an ideology that promotes terror, desu.

At least Iranians keep to themselves.

*Don't know

Very good point.

Sunni's been less barbaric. The current Sunni is a Wahhabist strain of Islam that we see, founded in the 1700s but being effectively dead until the 1930s

It started with the line of succession after Muhammad. Sunni thought the succession should be based on merit, so his father in law (Aisha's dad) should be Caliph

Shia thought bloodline should be line of succession, so Ali, his son-in-law should be Caliph

Ever since, their practices have diverged and they've fought over ultimate power of the faith

Both sides have held ultimate power throughout history, look at their achievements during those times. I think the Fatimids were the Shia and Umayyad and Mamluks etc were the Sunni

Genghis Khan sacked Baghdad and rekt the Sunni empire giving rise to the Shia Fatimids and the "enlightenment", tolerant Islam died, and the shitfest started

Was Islam really ever tolerant, though?

Based Ghengis at it again

History progresses, son. 99% of world conflicts start with something small and then one side escalates, the other side retaliates, then they escalate, etc.

A long fight forget its roots and in the end just becomes a senseless fight over who's to win because there's just too much to "forgive and forget" that trust can never again be re-established

The current fighting has nothing to do with the line of successions, just pure power. It's been the case for at least 1200 years.

Fucking Mongoloid

Every conflict currently going in the middle east is on a level a proxy war between Iran and someone.

Yes it was.

It was also very patriarchal which made a lot of men choose it over other faiths. Christianity only allowed you 1 wife, Islam allowed you 4. Christianity would send you to eternal damnation in Hell if you sinned, Islam offers redemption in hell. Etc there are many differences. Islam was preferred at the time. It was not always the degeneracy we've seen post Mongol conquest.

Wops response to *

>LE MONGOLS RUINED ISLAM MEME!
Meme. The Islamic Golden Age ended in 900s AD, with the decline of the Abbasids.

Tolerant Islam was destroyed because the only thing that held shrieking religious nutjobs in check - powerful imperial monarchic dynasties- were ruined in the 19th/20th Century, replaced by religious fanatics telling people they have an answer vs. Western Aggression.

Like other anons explained, it's a succession divide at heart, with cultural differences only playing in much later (and even then, said differences are mild compared to - say - Catholicism vs. Protestantism).

The "barbaric" thing is more complicated. Presumably by barbaric you mean tyrannical and violent. In which case both Sunni and Shia caliphates have engaged in equal amounts of barbarism over the centuries, with whichever one being more dominant being the more barbaric since it has more power. Linking either one to inherent barbarism is fallacious though since there were also prolonged periods of de facto tolerance in both strains. The "trick" there is limiting the power of the faith to dominate politics and society, more than aligning with a specific branch of the faith.

Islam was always spread by the sword.
Christianity is even more retarded, two wrongs don't make a right.

There's always a proxy war between east and west, Greeks and Persians, Romans and Persians, Christians and Muslims, NATO and eastern bloc. Maybe the Illuminati elites might have something to do with it.

>Islamic golden age lasted until 19th century
Go back to le ddit where your anti west stuff might actually be believed

Everything was spread by the sword.

>implying you don't need a blade to spread something
Pacifists can't into physics.

>I_cannot_read.jpg

>tolerant islam lasted~*

They have nothing to do with Islam. They whorship saints, they pray to stones and trees. Sunni Islam is the truth.

More like they retain millennia old traditions in the face of crushing adversity just like Sufis who retained knowledge or Gnosis.

You fuckers know what I meant. Don't get cute. You'd think 'muh religion of peace' would be spread by actual peace.

It's not a religion of peace. Only retards believe it is. It was however more tolerant than other faiths up until the 13th century

It probably wouldn't be spread by non-resistance or civil disobedience either.

My point is, introduce the said religion to the people and let them do as they please.

I don't know such passiveness has often been unconducive to a groups survival and has been often met with brutal cruelty. Once they grow however it probably in practice it collectively results in more deaths but the culture is established or knowledge of it preserved.

>You'd think 'muh religion of peace' would be spread by actual peace.

I remember how Jesus talked of turning the other cheek when slapped, not throwing nuclear weapons on them.
Why did devout Christians do something so violent in WW2?

It's a religion, not a Hippie fan convention. Just like Buddhists strive for nothing in the material realm and still massacre, pillage and wage war and everyone in their vicinity hates them for their zealous outbreaks.

We don't even have to judge Muslims' actions, their books say it all. Absolutely Barbaric!

Meh people forgo those things when circumstances reach critical levels. Eucharist, confession, and being loyal to your own country while not committing impious acts the rest of the time has been sufficient for most societies. You can't build a state institution on more complex and ascetic values and practices.

During 700 years Catholic europe expelled more than 4 million muslims
In just one year protestant Angela Merkel welcomed 2 million jihadists

These are facts
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It seems on a global level the shiites support Syria (Assad) and hate Saudi Arabia.
What's the reason for Russia supporting Iran? that I would love to understand

Islam primarily spread through trade

>What's the reason for Russia supporting Iran?

Both Iran and Russia oppose the US

>2 million jihadists

There are less than two hundred thousands jihadists worldwide

lol keep dreaming, you are muslim until your death

in an event of war, which side will the peaceful majority side?
It's not hard to imagine 2 million jihadists living in germany right now.

In an event of war between whom?

every muslim has the duty of enforcing Sharia law, either peacefully or not
Islam is the only political movement precisely because the Quran is the Civil and Penal code

Sharia is not a static code of laws, it’s a dynamic process of continuous reinterpretation. You cannot “implement Sharia”, it’s not a rulebook of specific punishments.

The core is there, the muslim scholars have their own definitions and limits... which is similar to rabbinic law(as you claimed they are dynamic)
But some issues aren't fluid, the punishment and the due process is different not the crime.

When people talk about Islam as being progressive and tolerant it always comes off as retarded to me.
Some caliphs/sultans were genuinely decent human beings who weren't butthurt about having Christians and Jews in their territory, but you're giving them too much credit considering how many positives there are to maintaining a large non-Muslim population.

Maybe because that claim in itself is retarded.

In southeast Asia, sure.
Elsewhere, not so much.

I think what's more astounding is where the rift in South Yemeni affiliation occurred. It's obvious that sectarian division is one of the principal culprits but both Yemens seemed to be Soviet leaning during the Cold War.

Tbqh I also think Soviets may have fucked up their rep with Sunnis and Muslims by extension.

Seconded. Iran shouldn't be trusting Russia either.

Khomeini saved Iran, everything except for liberty is better these days

My ass.

The shah's regime was way worse than current Iran

How so?

no it didnt, Iran is fine and doesn't bother anyone. Stop being an americuck sheep already

>Wahhabists
>less barbaric
my sides

...

What are all those chants about?
Death to America, Britain, and Israel?
Get the fuck outta here.

The shah got death squad, the literacy rate was bad, the economy was bad etc, why do you think they revolted in the first place?

who is chanting that you faggot? those Sunni wahhabists from Saudi Arabia? the one you americucks are great friends with?

Death to america means death to it's policies and wishing the death of israel as a regional power in middle east is pretty make sense

this. Iran never did nothing to nobody. Meanwhile murica and its owner israel have been fucking up the mid East for decades.

I always thought Sunni's being more barbaric was the reason it spread more than Shia, which was always the strain of islam more open to western values (see Iran prior to 1979 and Azerbaijan today)

Wrong reply

shit I'm drunk

Fatimids came way before Genghis showed up and ceased to exist before he was even born.

But there's no longer a caliphate today so why does it matter who Muhammad's successor was? Also isn't Muhammad supposed to be the last prophet?

Don´t read the quran. It´s a rotten to the core badly written shitty book that is used to torture children in Pakistan and elsewhere, where they have to read just this damn book for over 10 years to memorize it in full without failures and if they fail they get beaten up. If you know NLP you know that this is shit. Read many books, change literature for the cause of sanity. At the end those poor children can only think about one book and become dangerous for themselves and for others. That´s not education it´s torture.

You thought wrong

Saudi Arabia is an American, British and Israeli ally, unlike Iran

t. someone who has never studied religion or the quran.

t. Retard

From what I understand. It's very similar to the Protestant-Catholic split. Sunnis want to be governed by the Koran as the sole authority, while Shia want to be governed by the 'church' as the sole authority. Two entirely different socio-religious systems with two radically different kinds of life.

t. sandnigger

>Actions
>Muhhameds death
>Shia byyy a long shot

...

We were talking about historic. I said the >current shitty version of Sunni that we see is the Wahhabi strain. Before then, Sunni's historically been the tolerant version of Islam.

>Being good is beneficial so don't credit good hurr durr

The idea of the caliphate is not dead, Erdogan is a new Sunni candidate.

Muslims are still trying to spread and apply Sharia Law wherever they go.

But Islam is not a race

But they cannot implement Sharia even in their own countries

You don’t say.

Yes they can. Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, etc.

Sharia law is a general term, there are many different interpretations and sources.
Just compare the Iranian and Saudi sharia law, they have different foundations.

>Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan

Sharia is not implemented in any of these countries

False dichotomy.

Just because they haven't gone full sharia law doesn't mean haven't implemented parts of it.