Best Greek City State?

Tell Homer, the akhaians, the rhodesians, the trebizodians, the thracians, achilles, and greek world at the time of the roman conquest they're all wrong then.

>Overall:

SPARTA.

>Militarily:

SPARTA.

>Politically:

SPARTA.

>Culturally:

SPARTA.

Athens, Athens, Athens, and Athens. Muh Delian League

Greek is a term that encompasses Hellenic kingdoms/tribes that have cultural ties. The onpy reason the Trojans called their invaders "Greeks" is because they were a group of allied Hellenic kingdoms set against them. If Troy was in the opposite situation, they would have been classed as Greeks as well.

Trojans were more likely Lydians or close to that to my understanding.

'no'

pergamon

T H E B E S
H
E
B
E
S

What proof is there that they are Greek? Linguistically, the evidence says otherwise.

No it doesn't

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The Trojan war happened just as the Lydian kingdom began to establish. The Lydians only encompassed Troy much later.

Overall: Syracuse
Military: Sparta
Politically: Athens
Culturally: Athens

>Politically: Sparta
their political system was so unflexible that by the time Rome invaded Greece Sparta was reduced to a commune of a few hundred citizens forgotten by the rest of the world

That doesn't mean they spoke greek.

Thebes had a better track record on warfare than sp*rta

Troy's capital was called "Ilion", Greek word for Sun. They spoke Greek and worshipped the Greek Gods too. Please refrain from muddying the waters.

No, they spoke Luwian which is closer to Hittite than to Greek

>>be populated by greeks from Troy
This is the original wewuz

Try harder

Wtf by who? Ancient Greeks?

Brits, Albanians, Romans, French, fucking damn near everyone wanted to trace their ancient origins back to Troy.

Touché. The Törks crack me up the most though. Paris was a black BULL.

That's not the fault of Sparta's political system. Indeed, Greeks couldn't live in peace with each other, that's what ultimately destroyed them.

>Greek legend gives further indications on the subject of language at Troy. For one thing, the allies of Troy, listed at length in the Trojan Battle Order which closes book 2 of the Iliad, are depicted as speaking various languages and thus needing to have orders translated to them by their commanders (2.802-6). Elsewhere in the poem (4.433–38) they are compared to sheep and lambs bleating in a field as they talk together in their different languages. The inference is that, from the Greek point of view, the languages of Trojans and their allied neighbors were not as unified as those of the Achaeans.

>There was not enough evidence to fruitfully speculate upon the language of Troy until 1995, when a late Hittite seal was found in the excavations at Troy, probably dating from about 1275 BC. Not considered a locally made object, this item from the Trojan "state chancellery" was inscribed in Luwian and to date provides the only archaeological evidence for any language at Troy at this period. It indicates that Luwian was known at Troy, which is not surprising since it was a lingua franca of the Hittite empire, of which Troy was probably in some form of dependency.

>Another sphere of research concerns a handful of Trojan personal names mentioned in the Iliad. Among sixteen recorded names of Priam's relatives, at least nine (including Anchises and Aeneas) are not Greek and may be traced to "pre-Greek Asia Minor".[3] On this basis Calvert Watkins in 1986 argued that the Trojans may have been Luwian-speaking. For instance, the name Priam is connected to the Luwian compound Pariya-muwa, which means "exceptionally courageous".[4]

White people stop larping as ancient Anatolians

Utter speculative bullshit. A single artifact that wasn't even made in Troy was found with Luwian inscription doesn't explain shit. Don't get me started on the countless artifacts with Greek inscription found through Anatolia. Troy was a Greek kingdom that worshipped the Gods of Olympus, It's elites spoke Greek. Im not inclined to discard that just because of a single foreign made artifact and an account of multilingual citizens.

>Troy's capital was called "Ilion", Greek word for Sun.
You just made that up.

Homer was the one who claimed it and he died before ever setting foot in the city.

>Overall: Athens
>Militarily: Argos
>Politically: Athens
>Culturally: Athens
>Best bitches: Sparta

Homer never claimed Greeks and Trojans were same people.

which translation did you read to come to this conclusion?

Apologies, Ilion(Ίλιον=Sun) was an older Pre-archaic name for Troy, later known as Troy and Ilion. The capital of Ilium was established much later by the Romans.

That's not how Sun is written in Ancient Greek you retard. You can't swap H for I and expect it to fly.

>H in greek
>pronounced as H in english
>you retard
This is how it would be written in ancient Greek: Ἴλιον
In modern Greek: Ήλιος
The first comma signifies the presence of /h/. You absolute mong.

Weren't they Ionians?

*absence of /h/

I know dumbass, I was talking about the Eta. The Sun was never written Ἴλιοs. It was always written with an Eta or Epsilon, and always pronounced with [e], not with [i] until modern times. Eta and Epsilon are not interchangeable with Iota.

Ilion also has the opposite spiritus from Helios. The words are completely unrelated.

I am referring to the modern method of writing ancient Greek. Now please explain how Ilion and Helios are completely unrelated. It's the same word, conjugated and written in different form.

Ancient Greek
>Ἴλιος
>Pronounced Helios

I am going to break this down for you retards.

Ἥ - Eta with a rough spiritus, pronounced [he] in Ancient Greek
λ
ι
ο
ς

Ἴ - Iota with a smooth spiritus, pronounced [i] in Ancient Greek.
λ
ι
ο
ν

These two vocals and their spiriti cannot be etymologically swapped. It's like saying dog and dig are the same word. It doesn't work that way. At the very least the spiriti would have remained the same, but they aren't because the words are completely unrelated.

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Reminder that Sparta was a meme constructed way after its decline. The myth is rooted in some facts but only loosely.

I am going to break this down for YOU asshole amerifat wannabe. There are different forms of Greek which you are able to write with. There's the original ancient Greek, Katharevousa (pure greek) and Neo-Hellenic. The way ancient Greek is written and taught today is slightly DIFFERENT than the original way? Are we ok here? Do you understand me? This is due to a lack of data and ease. Instead of writing the Eta for a H, you are able using the modern method, to write a psilon pneuma on front of a letter to signify a H. Henceforth Ἴ=H and Ί=I. Do you observe the first small tick before the I? That is a psilon pneuma and signifies the absence of /h/. The second tone is just for pronounciation. Instead of writing Ήλιος which is spelling that lacks accuracy due to modern Greek similarities having different pronounciation, as the Greek H is not the same as the english H, the spelling has is changed in this form of Greek, written as Ἴλιον with a psilon pneuma at the beggining to signify the absence of what used to be /h/. Helios=Ήλιος=Ἴλιος. You massive faggot.

Ἴλιον=Helios nigger. The tones make all the difference.

You absolute retard, the pneuma is called a spiritus in etymology, and I've been talking about it the whole time. The point is that Ήλιος and Ἴλιον have OPPOSITE pneumas and different vocals which does. not. etymologically. happen.

Or fuck, if you're such a retard about etymology, show me one fucking connection between fucking troy and the Sun in mythology or anywhere else. It doesn't exist.

Why did Cyprus speak the same Greek dialect as Arcadia?

Ήλιος=Neo-Hellenic
Ἴλιος=Ancient Greek
You are too smug for someone that knows only the basics of things. They don't have opposite pneumas, you are using 2 different forms of writting.

> Ancient Greek: Ἥλιος, Ἠέλιος in Homeric Greek

Helios was never written with an Iota you retard. You're just memeing neo-hellenic because you have no argument.

Constantinople

SEA
PEO
PLE
( S )

Minoan Crete

Militarily: BTFO Greeklings. Steal their hottest virgins and cuck them by making said virgins get fucked and ate by an actual half man half bull.

Culturally: hot thicc Crete babes wore dresses that had their tits out. Noice.

And the Hittites called it Wilusa. We call Deutschland Germany, does that mean they're Gauls?

So using archeological evidence and linguistics is speculation, but just throwing out random guesses isn't. You're evidence is the fucking Iliad and for their god is from the Greeks who referring to other gods with their god's names. Using that logic, the Gauls worshipped Mercury and were therefore Romans.

Which translation claims they're the same people?

Definitely not. The part of Anatolia wasn't occupied by Ionians until later.

Ya that's funky. Maybe sea people/bronze age migrations?

>what is the eneiade

>See post
t. Licurgus
>Check trip
Fuck off faggot

Any proof that the Trojans spoke greek?

Not the fault of Sparta though. They changed their based political system after they won over Athens in the civil war.

all the characters in the iliad could understand one another

fitzgerald

>This counts as proof
So the Iliad proves Athena is real as well?