>"Stalin killed 20 million people, Hitler killed 6 million. Stalin killed more!"
And yet this is including the entirety of Stalin's reign and including things such as famine etc., whereas the Hitler figure is just an estimate of Jews killed in camps and other Holocaust-related incidents. Why not include all the people the Germans killed? Germans killed more people in USSR alone than all of Stalin
Basically Stalin invaded Romania, Poland, Latvia, etc and genocides his own minorities, and Hitler does something about it and attacks the USSR. They join the Nazis immediately and half the Soviet army joins the Nazis in the first days of the war.
Jacob Wood
>Stalin invaded Romania and Poland >USSR only invaded Poland after the Germans made an agreement to let them have it >Romania would not have been communist had they not joined the Germans in the war
Carter Martin
As far as I can tell, the 20 million number is typically achieved by counting German POW's that died in Soviet prison camps during or after the war in the total, which is fair because similar calculations for Hitler typically do the same thing with Soviet POW deaths.
Caleb King
Stalin threatened to take bessarabia, then invaded part of it in 1940. Then threatened again and Hitler declared war as any sane country would.
James Wright
>Stalin threatened to take bessarabia, then invaded part of it in 1940 Because there was a provision in the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact that said the Soviet Union could do whatever it wanted in Bessarabia and Germany would turn a blind eye to it.
Lucas Adams
Yeah I meant bukovina sorry
Jeremiah Johnson
Hitler literally agreed with Stalin that he could have Romania, Poland, and Baltics. Finland as well. Look up the Molotov-Ribbentrop agreement.
Rest of this post is uninformed nonsense. /pol/ IQ is embarrassing. Half the Soviet Army joining Germany in the first days of the war would mean like 5 million joining and there's no records of that ever happening.
Millions of soviets surrendered immediately, not all of them joined the Wehrmacht but they staffed several divisions worth.
Henry Peterson
uneducated cuck
Angel Collins
prisoners surrendering is a lot different from "half the soviet army joined the germans". The only russians in German service were 4 years after the war started and even that was barely anything. Far more Germans joined the Communist Stasi/NVA than Russians who joined Fascist groups. Rly makes me think
>It is estimated that the number of Soviet collaborators with the Nazi German military was between one and two and a half million
Not all of these are pows. But since basically all fighting age men are drafted they were people the soviets wanted in their army.
Add to this the vast numbers "conscripted" into various labor brigades, the overall shitty performance of the red army till mid 1942 when the deserters were all dead/left/Nazi by then, and the fact that the red army never exceeded 6 million men, with half of those deployed to the east, you see that ww2 was largely a "communists killing each other" affair.
Jayden Collins
its been proven with soviet census that Stalin killed less than 5 million
Grayson Wilson
This shows how stupid /pol/ is
The Council of Ministers was not the center of Soviet power, it was a bueracratic rubber stamp which was under the control of the Central Committee. Pic related was the central committee and not even 15% of it was Jewish
I haven't even bothered to check if these people are real or if they're Jewish but knowing /pol/ I'm sure that's not even the case.
Parker Martin
thats not even the biggest number Ive heard. 60 million. One wonders how the soviet union didnt fall apart if he killed 60 million people. This isnt fucking china.
Daniel Lewis
Anyway, most of the people you listed there were starving prisoners or peasants who wanted a bite to eat. There's a reason they were never used in combat despite being so big.
Far more Germans collaborated with the Soviets after the war, and unlike the partisans in the USSR against the Nazi's there was no anti-soviet resistance movement. Really makes me think...
Calling the eastern front communists killing each other is hilarious, there's only 1 isolated incident (In Hungary in late 1944) of Russian collaborators fighting the Soviet army.
The Soviet army was much larger than 6 million
A small number of Soviet units were in the East from 1941 until August Storm in late 1945.
Basically everything you said is wrong. Prove to me that half the soviet army joined the nazis in the first days of the war or fuck off
Wyatt Green
Stalin killed 1 million tops during the great purge.
1 million more was sent to the Gulags in the whole 70 year period of the USSR.
Holodomor was not a genocide.
Military infliction of casualties and treatment of POW's don't count.
Most of Axis civilians in WW2 were killed by the US/British or local occupied Slavs.
Julian Powell
Good argument, really made me think...
Nathaniel Lee
stalin's death toll is totally overestimated and not supported by basic math. Based on the population alone the USSR would have had to been increasing in population by a crazy amount for stalin to have killed 60 brazillion people but still been at the level it was at historically. Realistically you can only attribute a couple hundred thousand to millionish deaths to Stalin directly, IMO. This includes military purges (number killed was small, most were just demoted), political purges (same thing), dekulakization (probably 100k ish died but who cares lmao), the battles and repression against insurgents which were active throughout the whole period, but does not include the famine. I wouldn't blame that on Stalin at all, in fact thanks to his policies such an awful event was never repeated. But sure, give it to him. 1-2 million people died. Double my max estimates for purges (1.5 million) and overall he's still killed far fewer people than hitler, just accounting for the holohoax
Josiah Campbell
oh boy another genocide and warcrime denial thread!
Carter Wood
60 million is the total for all of WWII you fuck-wit