Wake up

NANI!?

Good luck trying to scare the cavalry away with elephants, the Numidians/Iberians are primarily javelinmen

Simple

Do you think this is a (Creative Assembly) game, user?

yes.

I assume he's trying to envelop? But Scipio isn't an idiot unlike Varro and Paullus

This is the best answer. Hannibal didn't want to fight his men were noobs.

More elephants

>More elephants
Came here to say this.

In Rome total war if you have elephants and infantry moving by each other the elephants squish your infantry

so what would have happened if carthage win that battle?

A peace treaty, probably
Strategically Carthage was pretty fucked by that point anyways

thanks

There weren't many more elephants. The carthaginians heavily depleted their population by using them as War engines. Why do you think that the North African Elephant no longer exists?

Rome raises and sends another force, and finishes the job.

Why would they give Carthage a peace treaty just because they were checked at the gates of their enemy? They had lost much bigger armies than what they were fielding at Zama (about 35,000 men, a good proportion of which were various local allies and not Italians) without stopping. Why would Zama make them call it quits?

RTW is so much better than RTW2.

Scipio was Rome's best general and he was commanding Rome's best troops, a sea away from home. If they lost that day, few would have made it home. Any further assaults by Rome would take many months, more likely years, giving the Carthaginians time to prepare. The next Roman army would be largely inexperienced, while the Carthaginians would be veterans of Zama.

Nothing because the battle of Zama didn't happen

both are shit

Me and my army of Parthian horse archers disagree

The push into Africa was scipio’s project. The senate told him he would receive no support or reinforcements, so he gathered the funds and soldiers necessary himself.
The Roman appetite for war was prodigious, but the war had been going on for almost 20 years with heavy losses on both sides, and I don’t think Hannibal would try to go back to italy or that the senate would be eager to keep throwing men at North Africa if they were defeated decisively at zama.

The commander with a birds eye view of the battle would win

>few would have made it home
Really? Because the Roman navy had already established naval dominance prior to this. In fact the Navy was one of the few reasons they kept fighting after the disasters that were Trasimene, Cannae and Trebia

Zama is not on the coast. Those who made it to the ships would have survived.
Few would have done so.

Only with the Europa Barborum mod

EB is fun but really slow-paced. Completing the long campaign on vh/vh is not a fun experience.

Because they didn't use enough the crush the Roman's. They did'nt become extinct for centuries after Zama (about 100 ad when Zama was 202 bc).

It may be slow-paced, but it is even-paced.

RTW2 starts off strong but gets bogged down in minutiae and starts to feel bloated and lacking in tension after a while.

RTW vanilla is just sad. Roman ninjas and New Kingdom Egyptians crush the immersion

Do what Belisarius did at Dara. The elephants will serve as anti-cavalry units rather than infantry. Trenches will negate flanking potential to an extent and force the battle into an infantry slog which may also fail because roman legions are unstoppably op.

I am not confident there is a way to win on the present terrain.

Alternatively retreat to the cities and stay locked up inside while periodically raiding Scipios supply lines, a reverse Varrus style guerilla campaign but instead in Africa. This may also not be as viable since I don't know how comitted to the war the Carthaginians or their allies were.

I call it the Arrow formation

...

Go for a double envelopment. He'll never expect the same trick twice

>an infantry slog which may also fail because roman legions are unstoppably op.
Maybe you weren't paying attention to what happened at Cannae, Lake Trasimene, or Trebia. Legionaries got their asses handed to them by Hannibal's motley host of grizzled Africans, savage Celts, and hardened mercenaries. In the actual battle of Zama the infantry slog was starting to turn in Hannibal's favor until the Roman allied cavalry returned to swing the battle back in their favor.

But the wikipedia show that Hannibal's infantry was losing and rome cavalry gave them the final blow

I may be wrong but I think the Carthaginians went and engaged the Roman army in order to avoid an unpaid mercenary revolt like in the first war, so huddling down and expecting a long siege was not an option.

The wiki doesn't say that, the wiki says that Scipio's first and second lines suffered heavy casualties, that it had come down to the triarii and was inconclusive until the Roman allied cavalry returned to encircle Hannibal's men.

Elephants and cavalry on the wings to oppose Scipio's. Majority of elephants on the left to counteract their greater numbers, try to swing a unit of elephants around into their flank after engaging their forward. Need to box their superior numbers in.
Put the citizens on the front line. Move the mercenaries to the center. Break the center line of mercenaries in two. Keep six thousand of them their. Send the other six to the right flank. If we can push the roman cavalry off the field or route them completely with ours, then the mercenaries can hit the roman infantry flank. Center mercenaries are to wait until the first two roman lines have launched their pilum, then they are to fill the holes. Back line is to hang back and allow the front line to trickle through when they route. Hopefully the routers will join the last line.
Overall plan is hold the center until the flank engagements are decided, then press forward hard. Keep the cavalry engaged, if the cavalry battle is won they should harass and attack the roman rear. Right is to wing around and flank.

If I loose I'll retreat back to Carthage. Rather than go east I'll go to Gaul. Try and rouse up a tribal confederation against Rome.

What now, bitch?

Wow, that'd get some deep penetration

>This isn't a game.
This is what brainlets actually believe.

Mass all the elephants on the right wing along with all cavalry but the light.
Light cavalry and strong detatchment of skirmishers on left flank to fight scipios numidians.
Mercenaries infront, citizens second line and veterans third.
I dont see how roman cavalry can stand against 80 war elephants and the carthaginian cavalry.
Pretty easy win i would say.

Dress up my war zebras as elephants.

Let loose my first wave of (real) elephants, which of course fails. Then launch my second wave of (fake) elephants, noone will take them seriously anymore, "lol lets just step aside", but just right before impact my zebras will shed their disguise and fuck up the Italians.

Dismount elephants and use as fucking meat shields to take all them bullets whilst adanving forward, the most alpha elephant has nuclear materials injected into its ball sack, this alpha male will then impregnant the biggest female elephant mid battle setting the fuze timer as the female had a small fire set right up in her stomach.

We would march forward behind the elephant lines pushing our nuclear elephant to the roman frontlines, with the right timing shel detonate and take dow over 2 billion troops in a 300 foot square feet mile around the alps.

>even teleported the camp
Kek

pUT THE ELEPHANTS ONE ON TOP OF EACHOTHER

>have the elephants start mating
>attack once the romans start to fervently masturbate

>heavy casualties
>the Romans lost around 2,000 infantry and 3,000 auxilliary
They were getting pushed back at best, but that could just as easily have been a part of Scipio's master plan to crash the Carthaginian army with no survivors(which is basically what he did)

>Numidian and Iberian cavalry proceeds to kite and kill the elephants with the help of their javelins and the Roman skirmishers

Casualties on your own side are inevitable. Better to emerge victorious by sacrifice than to lose and die

>
>NANI!?
We need an alt history anime about Hannibal.

hannibal was black, he looked like idris elba

...

Train more cavalry

>Hannibal didn't want to fight his men were noobs.
Didnt stop Xanthippus from Defeating the romans at the Battle of Bagradas in 255 BC during the first war. Most of the Phalanx was hastily raised after Utina

kite the front line until the cavalry engagement can be won, win it with elephants, light spear armed missile troops, or just superior cavalry, then send the elephants into the flank and combined inf, eles, cav, to roll up the flank like a rug. all the while the flank which is not doing the rolling is actively kiting backwords, in practice it would look like a corkscrew.

And Xanthippus had a huge calvary advantage, and elephants that were trained.

*gets caught by suebi spearmen on fast charge*

In all cases the legions were outflanked and had terrible generals.
Despite the fact that Hannibal had the most experienced army on earth, in head engagements, Hannibal would not have been able to campaign across Italia as he did.
Thats why he was always thinking of ways to negate Romes infantry and surround them/catch them off guard.

Wait for elephants

I'd lose because the actual Hannibal was an excellent general, and Scipio was an excellent general. Hannibal already lost before the battle was fought. The Romans brought to bear the superior force with superior cavalry on their side.

That's fine, my horse archers killed most of them already.

>his men were noobs.
Most of xanthippus' men were noobz too.

Yes, but he had an 8:1 calvary advantage.

I don't think you understand how warfare during this time works. The vast majority (like 90% to 95%) of casualties in these battles come from chasing routing troops. If a clash with an infantry line that didn't break their line or cause mass routing resulted in 2k to 3k deaths in a single day of fighting, that is incredibly high casualties and unless Carthiginian casualties were higher seems to indicate they were indeed losing the infantry engagement.

>Every Roman general that loses to a non-Roman is terrible
>Every general that a Roman general defeats is a military genius second only to Rome's finest

Yep, user. Hannibal is widely celebrated as one of the greatest generals that ever lived because he beat a couple dumb nobodies in simplistic ways.

I use my elephants to flank after the enmy infantry is already engaged, not to rush ahead.

He argued against that statement

Get rid of my elephants and get better/more cavalry. Also fortify my position with trenches and placing caltrops around my rear to stop or slow down enemy cavalry

Didn't the Romans win that battle by having the grand idea of not fucking standing right in front of the charging elephants?

>Hannibal Barca

In keeping with a promise made to a guy in the last thread that called him Hannibal Barca, I am not having a rant about this.

You are welcome.

what's wrong with the name hannibal barca? that is his real name, yes?

I appreciate that. If it makes you feel better, I though of you when I read it

T. Guy you promised.

They opened their ranks in coordination with the elephants, since elephants charge in a straight line. Similar to Alexanders calvary charges abusing phalanx spear positions.

he said Barca wasnt his last name, it was romans that called him Hannibal Barca

he said that he was just Hannibal and nothing else