When did you realise Japan wanted nothing more than to exist as an independent nation?

When did you realise Japan wanted nothing more than to exist as an independent nation?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-Strengthening_Movement
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When they took over half of Asia and raped thousands of Chinese women with bayonets. Literally what?

And they sought to accomplish this by invading and enslaving other nations? Fuck, they should have been split in half like Germany, instead of Korea.

No worse than what the west did. How are they meant to stand against Western empires that betrayed them without their own empire?

Are you really implying the Chinese weren't even worse off under the Qing who left them as starving medieval villages for hundreds of years? Let alone slaughtering millions.

>the yuropeans and manchus were bad so that means japan's crimes were only done to safeguard their independence
What?

...

Because the west wanted to rule them.

Please explain how doing this stops the west.

Japan was just butthurt that the west didn’t view them as equals.It still doesn’t justify their antics in China and SEA

>WE MUST SECURE THE FUTURE OF THE ASIAN PEOPLES.
>First target: Republican China.
What did they mean by this?

Chinese communist dressed up as Japanese soldier.

They were fighting against overwhelming odds and had no time to deal with uprisings. They had to show they would resort to anything to secure their empire from the start. WWII was a desperate time, and not representative of the Japanese intention for Asia. They had vastly improved territories they obtained before WWII, and to this day they still benefit.

East Asia had to be united under the Japanese, who had been the only people shown to be capable of standing up to the West. There was no room for petty divisions of new nations. It unfortunately backfired and sent the Nationalist government into exile in Taiwan, but Japan was a good ally to ROC after WWII when it was clear that Asia was going to be ruled by the West despite their best efforts. Japan never truly accepted the People's Republic of China.

An absolute affront after all Japan had done for the West. They were Britain's greatest ally, and involved themselves in two wars for Western interests that they could have been avoided. What were they meant to do? Just roll over and accept that America would build an empire around them, if not conquer them themselves?

Also, the first target was not republican China, it was the Qing empire, who were arguably far worse rulers than Japan.

>justify
Shut the fuck up moralfag, the (((west))) is by far the most villainous group of countries in human history.

>crying about human soldiers chimping out during war
Just stop

Pretty much on the second one. The natural way to wage war is to kill or enslave the men and take the women as new wives. The attitude of being courteous in warfare only works between equals, hence why every war since WWII has been unwinnable insurrection.

So Dresden was not a justified act but rather a chimp out of the Anglos against Germans?

Bombing was a mistake that got out of hand. Germany accidentally dropped bombs on civilians, so Britain bombed civilians, so Germany bombed civilians, and it went on. It accomplished nothing.

>when did you realize japan wanted nothing more to exist as an independent nation
when they started raping their way across china and the pacific.

>lol why didn't they just stay on their resource deprived island while we invaded everything around them how dare they do the same thing

Yeah, why didn't they? It worked out pretty well for them so far, and unlike the rest of asia the western powers didn't really give a fuck what happened in Japan. China was where the money was at, everything else was irrelevant. The Japs just chimped out because the western empires gave them penis envy. Hell, they wouldn't have even had to go to war with the US if they could have kept the war crimes to a minimum.

>It worked out pretty well for them so far

It had begun to fail over 100 year before WWII.

>dude why can't the west just do whatever the fuck they want how dare anyone oppose them

>it had begun to fail over 100 year before ww2
Japan maintained there sovereignty and wasn't in danger of losing it, so no.
>dude why can't the west just do whatever they want
I don't think that many of the people that the Japanese conquered looked up to them as saviors.

>when did you realise Germany wanted nothing more than to exist as an independent nation?
When you invade your neighbours and declare war on half the world you don't get to complain when the door hits you on your way out.

Edvcate thyself, swine

>Japan maintained there sovereignty and wasn't in danger of losing it, so no.

Wrong. The Western attitude after WWI made it clear that they had no intention to respect Japan.

>I don't think that many of the people that the Japanese conquered looked up to them as saviors.

It would be no different if a Western power had invaded them. Very few countries look up to their former masters. If they hadn't been invaded, they'd just be irrelevant villages in China instead of modern nations.

Also true. Soviets would have invaded all of Europe. Germany just went the wrong way about it.

>wrong, the western attitude after world war 1 made it clear they had no intention to respect Japan
They had no intention of respecting their aggressive expansion at the cost of other sovereign nations, yes.
>lol lets go invade china
>wtf the league of nations doesn't like us invading a sovereign nation
>reeeeeeeee this is why we need a strong military! To stop other countries from telling us not to invade other people with our strong military!
Do you see how retarded this logic is?
>it would be no different if a western power had invaded them
In the case of china, no western power was interested in further violations of her sovereignty. The other nations that were colonized by the europoors didn't really mind as much because they weren't being genocided nearly as much under the europeans. The Japanese weren't "protecting" them from anything, life under the Japanese was WORSE than life under westerners.

I'd give some arguments, but threads like this always devolve to this Blah justify bcoz commies bad, blah they were monkeys anyway, blah japan number one, blah white piggu die, blah white women don't like me so i have the delusion that japanese women are submissive, live in the 1940 and don't have their own ambitions so they will bend over on my every command.

Fucking weeaboo scum at it again. Two nukes weren't enough were they?

Shut the fuck up Filthy Frank,why are Japanese such fucking pedophiles?

They bayoneted babies bruv

so given all this i assume you support the PRC becoming the global hegemon soon to counteract the West?

Ah yes, those babies could have started a revolt and go on a dangerous counterattack. Future generations will appreciate what the japanese did for China, it was overall a net positive.

Why did you place west in parentheses?

A lack of resources gives you the right to steal from someone else?

t. Japanese NEET
Why don't you go stalk or stab a girl you claim as your waifu.

No because the Chinese are some of the worst people in the world.

Only if you're western ;)

...

Kek.
Nice hypocrisy Hirohito

Worst. Culture. Ever.

So glad you got those bombs.

>had done for the West
Like what? Invade China at Britain's request only to rape and pillage their way to Beijing?Guard Malta from fucking AUSTRIA-HUNGARY when Italy was right there? Sink a fucking German fleet that was so far from home it wasn't even a threat? Invade Russia? I can't think of a single thing Japan did for the West before the late 20th century.

>They were fighting against overwhelming odds and had no time to deal with uprisings. They had to show they would resort to anything to secure their empire from the start. WWII was a desperate time, and not representative of the Japanese intention for Asia. They had vastly improved territories they obtained before WWII, and to this day they still benefit.

in an aggressive war of conquest

> who had been the only people shown to be capable of standing up to the West.

Western countries literally gave them a seat at the negotiating table of versailles and the german colonial holdings

An absolute affront after all Japan had done for the West. They were Britain's greatest ally, and involved themselves in two wars for Western interests that they could have been avoided. What were they meant to do? Just roll over and accept that America would build an empire around them, if not conquer them themselves?

literally all in their own intrest

shit country, shit people. hope yourinternational relations are forever affected by the horrible crimes you commited

Retard.

...by taking Manchuria

>Sink a fucking German fleet that was so far from home it wasn't even a threat?
What was the problem

I'd give some arguments but thread always devolve in this

Blah blah fucking Japs, blah Asians have small dicks fucking ant people, blah democracy number one nationalism killed a bazillion people

>Sink a fucking German fleet that was so far from home it wasn't even a threat?

They couldn't even eliminate the German East Asian Squadron properly and had to get RN involved to finish them off for good.

nobody has said any of those things yet

> t. kawasaki Tojo

stay mad. Truly hope your sour international relations make sure you're alway in the shadow of others, hope your economy collapses

It already did though. Now they're stuck being America's sidekick, the whole thing the fought WW2 not to be while the people they subjugated will become the only strong independent power in the Asia Pacific. Pretty ironic desu senpai

Japan will survive while the west is flooded with immigrants.

>Japan needed an imperialistic empire to obtain the resources needed for national defense, they had to expand or d..

That isn't a military.

Also, that is the 60s.

>Literally what?
You just cannot resist sucking dick

That lady is waaaay too sexy and filtered for that to be a legitimate photo of war crimes

And? Japan did perfectly fine after the war without any kind of shitbaggery.

What the fuck are you typing? Are you implying I'm a Western that's butthurt about the war crimes or something? Step up your banter game faggot.

>What was the problem
Britain thought that the squadron, which was well out of supply and completely unable to return to Germany, was a threat.

Because the attention turned immediately to the Soviets. Hence why Germany and Japan were built up, instead of penalized like after WWI.

Does it matter if it was a threat or not?

>No worse than what the west did.
Korean here and I would rather be colonized by britbongs or Americans than the J*ps.

You would be an irrelevant Chinese street shitting city if it wasn't for the Japanese.

I think folks in general should realize that when colonialism was a thing the Americans were actually a great choice. Y'know, out of all bad choices, but the greatest of all bad choices.

China today

>>dude why can't the west just do whatever the fuck they want how dare anyone oppose them

That's literally how a large portion of world affairs are justified today

And Seoul today.

>Ah yes Korean, we build your road. Now we take away your grain and metal so we can """protect""" u from whities :))). Also we fucc u women.

Yeah, that's a tier 1 city. Most of them aren't.

The dollar, and by extension every fiat currency, is backed by the ability of the US to just invade anyone who threatens to not value it.

Meh kind of.
But that's been going out of fashion since 2008.
We officially multipolar now

Shut the fuck up, and stop justyfying japs slaughtering millions in WW2. The point is, Japs could develop without ANY fucking colonies.

>jap apologist
Kill yourself

Imagine the sheer level of advancement that picture would illustrate if it were for the Anglos instead of the japanese

I mean as it stands after the russo-japanese war the japs were in a real good position on the world stage, the only reason local agricultural production was a problem was because the militarists wanted autarky instead of just playing nice and trading like everyone else. Instead of conquering Korea, japan could have simply been content with it remaining in their sphere and being a preferred destination for korean imports. If annexation must occur, it's simpler to give it relative autonomy a-la austria-hungary along with a general program of political reform to be in line with the japanese process of westernisation.

Pretty sure there was a revolution that happened in China, that would led to infrastructure being built, and I doubt the Japanese actually cared on maintaining the cities itself.

Then by your logic, if the Americans ruled Japan then those tea shacks would be buildings -- oh wait, they did, the US actually help rebuild Japan to what it is today.

So making excuses like "muh japan protect asia from western imperialism" doesn't fucking apply here because if it weren't for burgers bitch slapping you with two nukes, You'd all still be monkeys living in bamboo huts.

>either maintain """"complete"""" independence (Puerto Rico/Cuba), get uplifted out of your savage state then given independence (Phillippines, Samoa, etc.) or brought into the fold altogether (Alaska, Hawaii, etc.)
It really wasn't a bad deal, comparably. You didn't see mass exploitation outside of Cuba either.

I don't get this board's approach to war crimes. Even factoring out deniallists, Russia and America are given a free pass simply because they didn't do anything as bad as the holocaust and Germany is okay now because of an absurd trial, America profiting off of german research, and Germany culturally apologizing. Is a unified sorry really all it will take for you guys to not harp about Nanjing?

>that image again

I guess Western art is shit because Picasso drew Guernica in the 1930s. That art was highly admired by the west, and imitated by Van Gogh, so I guess he's shit after all, too.

>You'd all still be monkeys living in bamboo huts

Wrong. Japan was possibly the fastest country to modernise in the 19th century.

Oh yes, the same revolution that killed tens of millions of their own people in peace time. China is truly an admirable country.

>Oh yes, the same revolution that killed tens of millions of their own people in peace time
I think that user was referring to Self-Strengthening Movement(although it didn't really success), but of course I don't expect you to know it since you probably a weeb.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-Strengthening_Movement

It doesn't really matter, either way, because they still shit in elevators even in tier 2 cities.

>the (((west))) is by far the most villainous group of countries in human history
that would actually be the mongols (countries discarded)

But I do get the mentality like yours, same as always. So you will get same answer as always.

>Tomomi Inada, former defense minister
>Nanking Massacre
Inada was a supporter of right-wing filmmaker Satoru Mizushima's 2007 revisionist film The Truth about Nanjing, which denied that the Nanking Massacre ever occurred.[17] After Takashi Kawamura, Mayor of Nagoya City, made denialist statements about the Nanking Massacre, on 6 March 2012 in Tokyo, at the Simposium[18] to support Kawamura's statement, she opposed to the history class in the Japanese school education, because the teachers, who could be members of Japan Teachers Union and be sympathized with China, teach the pupils about the Nanking Massacre of the Second Sino-Japanese War at the school classes. At that time, she said, "When Japanese Prime Minister definitely denies the Nanking Massacre, such a non-sense school education could end."[19]

>US Occupation after WWII and The International Military Tribunal for the Far East
Inada insisted that The International Military Tribunal for the Far East after World War II, was against the principles of the modern law and the International Military Tribunal for the Far East was only a part of the policy of Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers during the Allied occupation (mainly United States' occupation) of Japan after World War II, and she also said that Japan should totally deny the historical viewpoints, which too much emphasized the Japanese military invasion in China, following the decision of The International Military Tribunal for the Far East.[20] In August 2015, Inada expressed her intent to form a committee to verify the authenticity of the tribunal and the views of Japanese history it employed.[21] "Inada has argued that the Tokyo Trials distorted Japan's responsibility for the war", according to the Wall Street Journal in 2016.[4]

>Japanese Comfort Women
Inada was a signatory to "The Facts" advertorial, supported by The Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact and published in The Washington Post on 14 June 2007. The advertorial asserts that there is no proof of the Imperial Japanese Army's system of Comfort women during the Pacific War.[24] She also helped to launch the LDP Special Mission Committee to Restore the Honor and Trust of Japan, which in 2015 recommended to Prime Minister Abe that Japan counter what it views as false allegations against Japan regarding the Comfort Women issue.[25] When the committee demanded that an American textbook publisher correct its depictions of comfort women that were "at odds with the position of Japan," Inada called these depictions an "infringement upon the human rights of Japanese children living in the United States."[26] "In 2012, ... Inada wrote in a newspaper column that 'there is no need for an apology or compensation' to women who served Japanese soldiers sexually in World War II because she said the Japanese military and government didn’t compel the women to perform such services," the Wall Street Journal reported at the time of Inada's appointment as Defense Minister.[4] On the other hand, in a 2013 press conference, Inada called the Comfort Women system a grievous violation of women's human rights.[27]

>LGBT
In 2015, Inada went against her party's traditional opposition to LGBT rights by setting up a committee within the party to discuss the matter.[29]

Degenerated as always.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomomi_Inada#Nanking_Massacr

Ready for your buzz word, yet?
>Chinese communist propaganda

Why are you so bothered about Nanking?

Why is it so much worse than firebombing and nuking millions of civilians after Japan has already offered a modest conditional surrender?

I don't think anyone wanted anything less for them, but they could have done this without conquering other countries.

>millions

>modest conditional surrender?
The japs actually tried to surrender? Are you sure? Pretty sure they would have kept fighting to the end until their emperor stepped in.

>after Japan has already offered a modest conditional surrender
>modest conditional surrender
top kek

Are Nippon threads the ultimate Turk posting?

More like you're the one so bothered about Nanking, that's why you folks just keep denying and evasive like a cycle.

I listed so many shits she said/did, but all you see is Nanking. Maybe it's because deep down you know they're guilty, and your quibbling is useless, yes?

>fastest country to modernise
T O P K E K
Lies soothe the mind don't they? Any documentary I've watched, even from NHK itself shows the Pre-War and War time Japan shown itself as a fucking shithole, everybody was living in shithole huts and was forced to work for the emperor, even in most Urban areas they were still living in houses made predominantly in Bamboo.

You can dislike China all you want, but don't try to change history and say "Japan was leading Asia in development" because most parts of China and even Korea was already on par if not ahead.

>Falling for propaganda of Japanese NEETs
oh boy

>Oh yes, the same revolution that killed tens of millions of their own people in peace time. China is truly an admirable country.
So? Like Japan didn't have fucking warlords spilling blood during the Sengoku period, France had a revolution against the classes should they be ashamed of it? Should Americans be ashamed of revolting against the British?
Nice logic faggot.

>So? Like Japan didn't have fucking warlords spilling blood during the Sengoku period, France had a revolution against the classes should they be ashamed of it? Should Americans be ashamed of revolting against the British?

Please look up what the Chinese revolution was. It is absolutely reprehensible and nothing like those other examples.

>Japanse only wanted their own independence, because the westerners were worse
?

How is it difficult to understand that they didn't want to end up like India?

Also, I don't think you understand what life was like in European cities, either. Multiple families shared each building, and outdoor toilets and water supplies were shared between multiple buildings. Having the facilities with which to cook was a 20th century innovation for poor people.

It's not really surprising the houses were made of bricks, considering industrialization had occurred over centuries, not decades.

So yes a unified apology from Japan is all it takes for you to stop pretending like this is worst thing to ever happen in human history, or even the worst thing to happen in that war. I'm not saying it should be ignored or denied but people need to take the longview approach here and stop pretending like this good vs evil bullshit is/was reality

I think they want it to be treated like the holocaust, without understand that the holocaust receives an extremely unusually high amount of attention for an atrocity.

How is it difficult to understand that under no circumstance would they have been conquered and colonized like india anyways, unless they went to war with every one of the western powers operating in the pacific?