How good of a place was the 2nd Reich to live in pre-WW1?

It hurts to be honest

Workers living conditions were improved by SPD and trade unions, not Willy.

Yeah, no doubt about that.

Russia was rapidly industrializing though, and the last feudalistic elements were slowly disappearing as it entered the industrialist boom.

Too bad the CCCP didn't realize Market economics were necessary in industrialization, and Russia basically fell behind in progress for 20 years.

It feels like WW1 was just a massive slip up in the dialectic. It completely fucked our progress.

SPD and trade unions certainly helped, but a big part of Willy's disagreements' with Bismarck came from the 2 constantly butting heads pver trade unions and workers. Willy stood against the Prussian hatred of the working class and effectively legitimized parties like the SPD without any direct support, even if he was a fiscal conservative at heart.

Idiot

>Russia was rapidly industrializing though, and the last feudalistic elements were slowly disappearing as it entered the industrialist boom.
This is correct, Russia was becoming an industrial behemoth. But I think we need to take into account that Russia began massive industrialization at the expense of the peasant. While Russia's industry was booming (Petroleum production increasing by 6500% in some regions), the standard of living for the Russian peasant was still incredibly abysmal. A book I've read somewhere states that the Russian peasant was the most heavily burdened by taxes, even though he should've been the least burdened. An example for Russia's disregard would also be the 1891-92 famine, where Grain exports were not banned, and in fact an increase in taxes for the peasants led to them selling even more of their food supplies just to pay off taxes.
I agree Russia industrializing was insane, but regards to OP industrialization in Russia didn't neccessarily mean an improvement of quality of life.

I'd also say Russia wasn't industrializing as fast as it could've, due to the problems it was facing domestically and diplomatically. You had the Russo-Japanese war, the 1905 revolution, the famines of 1891-92 etc etc. Had Russia not experienced these I wouldn't be surprised if they would've industrialized and exploded even further (probably would've built even more railroads had the Russo-Japanese war not happened, in where France started investing in Russia less).

Germany was booming, science, industry and technology were expanding at a dramatic pace, leading to great consternation among older powers like Britain and France. This led them to create an anti-germanic alliance with Russia.
Wilhelm 2 was also a bad diplomat, compared to Bismarck's genius, but the times were a' changing and not even Bismarck could have extricated Germany from everybody's crosshairs.

Without the war and the eventual nazis, Germany would have developed the atom bomb, the ICBM, the first computer and internet long before any other state.

It's really depressing how the Weimar Republic and the Nazis pretty much stopped all German intellectual progress.

>I agree Russia industrializing was insane, but regards to OP industrialization in Russia didn't neccessarily mean an improvement of quality of life.

Yep, that's industrialization. It really fucks over living standards in the short term, but helps in the long term. A book I read said that when British Merchants needed workers in their factories, people were literally forced from their homes in the country as part of a forced urbanization process to speed up meeting ever growing demands.

It completely and utterly eradicated small town communities, but transformed England into an industrial world power in 30 years.

Russia itself was going through the same process, and I think it would've eventually led to a short period of booming, and then a gradually growing middle class.

So yeah, you're right it didn't improve living standards, in fact it actively fucked them, but it did build up the infrastructure for a prosperous future.

>I'd also say Russia wasn't industrializing as fast as it could've, due to the problems it was facing domestically and diplomatically. You had the Russo-Japanese war, the 1905 revolution, the famines of 1891-92 etc etc

Oh yeah, no doubt. Russia is history's worst victim of geography. their lack of warm water ports fucked them over, and they were surrounded by neighbours who were not only industrial superpowers, but also in deep need of new land, to which Russia was vulnerable for. (Japan & Germany desperately needed new agrarian land to support their massive population)

It put Nicholas II in a hard position, he could've tried to play his cards right and remained isolationist, but nationalist elements both in the Russian people (Pan-Slavism etc) and in their territories (Polish Nationalism) That came as a side effect of the industrialisation put them in a miserable scenario.

>It's really depressing how the Weimar Republic

The Weimar Republic was a golden age of economic growth and cultural richness between the Inflation Crisis and the Great depression.

Well half of Germany's intellectuals were Jews, who are a double sided sword. On the one hand they are brilliant scientists who helped develop theory behind nuclear fission, on the other hand they push political and social movements that are absolutely nation-wrecking (like what happened to Russia).

But even without Jews, Nazi Germany was the leading technological power, and all its science and tech were rapidly stolen by the Allies.

>Well half of Germany's intellectuals were Jews, who are a double sided sword. On the one hand they are brilliant scientists who helped develop theory behind nuclear fission, on the other hand they push political and social movements that are absolutely nation-wrecking (like what happened to Russia).

Wehraboos need to unironically hang themselves

Maybe the reason so many Jews were part of socialist movements were because they were... *gasp*... treated like shit?

It's like we're living in the wrong timeline. Christ, why why why?

>Nazi Germany was the leading technological power
What a ridiculous overstatement

It's a tragedy

>It completely and utterly eradicated small town communities, but transformed England into an industrial world power in 30 years.
>Russia itself was going through the same process, and I think it would've eventually led to a short period of booming, and then a gradually growing middle class.
This is actually a very interesting part. Villages in Russia were so self-sufficient that factory owners sometimes saw it beneficial for villagers to go back to their villages, and work there as well, and not only in a factory. Russia's urbanization from villages/small towns -> big cities I'd say can't be really compared, as the villages of Russia were highly self-sufficient, ergo this lead to cities becoming dependent on Villages, rather than Villages becoming dependent on cities. In fact there was a populist movement stating that it was better for villagers to continue having villages, so after they're done working, they could go back there in case they're sick, or old or w/e. Not to mention, as one book states "For the Russian peasant, freedom and land are not separable". In a sense, agricultural work was deemed the most essential to a Russian peasant, he only deemed industry work as "Part-time", I guess if you want to call it that. Really interesting imo, shows how different the mentalities of a Russian peasant were to, say, a British or American one.

>Oh yeah, no doubt. Russia is history's worst victim of geography. their lack of warm water ports fucked them over, and they were surrounded by neighbours who were not only industrial superpowers, but also in deep need of new land, to which Russia was vulnerable for.
Not to mention Russia was fairly dependent on trade with Germany to satisfy some consumer needs, Germans actually went as far as to highly analyze and research what the Russian wanted, what quality, where etc. This essentially led Russia becoming reliant on Germany to supply its consumer goods a fair amount, so WW1 kinda fucked them over
even harder

And yet people keep saying that this is the best time to be alive.

Butthurt ameriland detected. All your science was built by european immigrants from Germany.

They were treated like shit because they let nothing get in the way of profits and money and greed. And also promoting movements against Germany's interests. Everytime Jews get money and power they act like animals, see the wolf of wall street or harvey weinstein.

Fucking character count
In case you're interested further, here are some books you can read regards to Russia's industrialization process, how it affected the low class and what lead to that:
"Economic development of Russia 1905-14" by Miller
"Russia enters the twentieth century" by Katkov
"Patters of Urban growth in the Russian Empire" by Fedor.

>Made borderline useless rockets
>GERMANY BEST TECH EVER
Wehraboos are fucking blight on this earth

The US owns their entire space program to Von Braun, you anglo fuck.

Forgot to add "Sergei Witte and the Industrialization of Russia" by Von Laue

OK, so that's one thing Nazis had a technological edge in, can you name a single other?

>No WW1
>Living standards improve everywhere
>Colonial Empires remain, colonies develop by the colonizer's aid
>States like Russia or Germany become more democratic thanks to the growing middle class
>Major powers develop nukes at some point and there won't be a major war thanks to nuclear deterrence
It would have been beautiful
>All your science was built by european immigrants from Germany.
German Americans did a lot, but so did Americans from other countries.

>This is actually a very interesting part. Villages in Russia were so self-sufficient that factory owners sometimes saw it beneficial for villagers to go back to their villages, and work there as well, and not only in a factory. Russia's urbanization from villages/small towns -> big cities I'd say can't be really compared, as the villages of Russia were highly self-sufficient, ergo this lead to cities becoming dependent on Villages, rather than Villages becoming dependent on cities.

This also sort of exaplins why Russia existed ina weird mixture of Feudalism and Capitalism. 85% of the Russian People didn't work in urban industrialization, but rather in small villages like that.

Sort of shows why agricultural mechanization was so painful for russia, when one considers just how dependent the Russian people were on these communities.

>Not to mention Russia was fairly dependent on trade with Germany to satisfy some consumer needs, Germans actually went as far as to highly analyze and research what the Russian wanted, what quality, where etc. This essentially led Russia becoming reliant on Germany to supply its consumer goods a fair amount, so WW1 kinda fucked them over

Yep, Russia's only real hope for not becoming a German puppet state at the time seemed to be in modernizing transport fast enough to mobilize their army, and gaining further French Investment.

I often see people saying it woul'dve been mutually beneficial for Germany and Russia to renew their alliance, but in hindsight, Russia seemed like a growing threat and easy pickings for Germany. Why wouldn't Germany want to carve up the Russian Empire before it gets stronger?

Germany's need for food would've almost reversed their relationship to Germany becoming dependent on Russia for Ukranian Grain. It makes perfect sense for Germany to want to defeat Russia ASAP.

In short, the more you analyse from it, the more clear it seems that the Russian Empire was fucked.

Jet aircraft, cryptography, automatic rifles, pharmaceutical drugs, submarines... etc

>They were treated like shit because they let nothing get in the way of profits and money and greed.

You understand most Jews were working class and lived in ghettos, right?

>And also promoting movements against Germany's interests

You mean ones that treated them as equals?

Their "winning wars" tech was way behind tho.

>Jet aircraft
wrong
>cryptography
wrong
>automatic rifles
Actually it's selective fire with an intermediary round that made the StG 44 important, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that because you obviously know fucking nothing about it if you think an automatic rifle is an impressive feat in the 40's
>pharmaceutical drugs
Debatable
>submarines
Submarine, singular, only the Type XXI was particularly advanced in comparison to its contemporaries

Ok, so they were treated like shit, because at the end of the day they are guests who have outlived their welcome.

Solution to that is... piss of the hosts more? lol?
Also there have been many attempts to integrate Jews. The spanish spent centuries trying to get them to become law abiding christians. Even the muslims converted back. But never Jews, always sticking to their ways in the shadows.
No wonder it came down to the final solution, there was literally nothing else that worked.

>It would have been beautiful
Absolutely. Nice to find a kindred spirit.

They invented combined arms warfare (blitzkrieg for laymen). This was such an awe-inspiring innovation that they wiped out two of the strongest militaries in a few weeks. However the Germans were under-equipped for a drawn out attrition war.

No, you're wrong.

We transformed from a culture that elevated the human spirit to one based on maximizing economic utility.

Holys hit, wehraboos like you are such cancer.

>Ok, so they were treated like shit, because at the end of the day they are guests who have outlived their welcome.

Yeah, because they dared to have a different culture.

>Solution to that is... piss of the hosts more? lol?

So I guess blacks in the US shouldn't have protested for their rights, or the peasants in France of the 1780's, or the Portuguese in Spain. yeah, I'm sure the rulers would randomly start treating them better after they do nothing to fight against their treatment.

>Also there have been many attempts to integrate Jews. The spanish spent centuries trying to get them to become law abiding christians. Even the muslims converted back. But never Jews, always sticking to their ways in the shadows.

So what you're saying is, the attempts to integrate Jews was based around forcing them to abandon their faith. Wow, how kind.

>No wonder it came down to the final solution, there was literally nothing else that worked.

Ah yes, those Jewish child peasants in Poland were such a threat.

You are unironic human scum.

Combined arms has been a thing since WW1 tho.

>They invented combined arms warfare
You're a fucking idiot

Not as a serious strategic vision. It was a few planes flying about to scout, a few tanks here and there and mostly just massive infantry charges.

>As the war progressed new combined arms tactics were developed, often described then as the "all arms battle". These included direct close artillery fire support for attacking soldiers (the creeping barrage), air support and mutual support of tanks and infantry. One of the first instances of combined arms was the Battle of Cambrai, in which the British used tanks, artillery, infantry, small arms and air power to break through enemy lines.
>Previously such a battle would have lasted months with many hundreds of thousands of casualties. Co-ordination and pre-planning were the key elements, and the use of combined arms tactics in the Hundred Days Offensive in 1918 allowed the Allied forces to exploit breakthroughs in the enemy trenches, forcing the surrender of the Central Powers.

Wow, they broke through against an enemy that had already given up lol.

>They invented combined arms warfare (blitzkrieg for laymen).
>Not as a serious strategic vision.
Is this moving goalposts?

Well, the Americans genocided the native americans pretty much and you don't hear much about 'native american rights' do you.

Stop looking at history like an emotional kid, mass extermination is a valid strategy that has been used many times, by the Mongols, the Romans, the Muslims etc etc.

Not an argument, they used every form of warfare equipment (i.e Combined Arms warfare). Now kill yourself for thinking Nazi Germany invented the very concept of "Combined arms warfare".

>Well, the Americans genocided the native americans pretty much and you don't hear much about 'native american rights' do you.
>Stop looking at history like an emotional kid, mass extermination is a valid strategy that has been used many times, by the Mongols, the Romans, the Muslims etc etc.

>I'm 15 and think I'm a sociopath after taking an online test: The Post

Please come back when you're 18. It isn't immature to view history through an empathetic and fair lens that isn't, you know, horrifically fucking racist.

What are you, a retarded SJW?

History is history, people have been killing each other since before they evolved from apes. Race has nothing to do with anything, every type of person from Mongolian to African has engaged in the annihilation of other people and tribes.

And yet you seem to think these groups somehow were 'asking for it', and class entire groups through a few discernible traits like an actual child.

Return to /pol/ and never come back here.

Stop feeding him his mom does enough of that.

Better than most other countries of the time period, probably not as good as Great Britain

>muh /pol/
Yep, you're a either, a tankie or a libtard.