Why isn't Ice Cream Fitness 5x5 recommended to beginners instead of SS or SL 5x5?

Why isn't Ice Cream Fitness 5x5 recommended to beginners instead of SS or SL 5x5?
ICF is essentially SL with accessory exercises so it's good for both strength and aesthetics.

I'm starting gym next month and I'm looking for best program to follow. I know ICF is time consuming but I won't have anything better to do until October.

I have read the sticky.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/user/artofmanliness/search?query=rippetoe)
fitsticky.squarespace.com/starting-strength
fitsticky.squarespace.com/how-to/
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Dunno, followed ICF for 3 months when I started last year and it was great but it's definitely way more taxing than SS or SL. Good luck on your journey future Veeky Forumsizen.

noob here, cutting on ICF, only issue for me is that even at my faggot weights, it takes forever. Enjoying it tho

Because Jason Blaha is an obese, childish, assbag.

>looking for best program to follow
The mistake you're making when comparing these programs is that you're focusing on the differences rather than the similarities. The fact of the matter is that they're all (the ones you mention) fairly similar. At the end of the day, your results will depend more on your effort, consistency and perseverance, as well as adherance to a good diet, rather than on which one of these routines you went with.
The difference is neglible, and if somebody tries to tell you that one is better than the other, realize that it's mostly going to be his or her own opinion. Personally I'd recommend Starting Strength simply because it has a book that is very handy for someone just starting out. The book also suggests what kind of additional exercises can be included in an effective manner "for both strength and aesthetics".

I see it recommended plenty of times when people ask for beginner programs.

>I'm starting gym next month and I'm looking for best program to follow.
It doesn't matter that much, the full body beginner programs are mostly the same, it don't matter. Pick one and do it.

> I'm starting gym next month
> here is what I think the best program is and why

All three of those programs are shit, try something like Reg Park's for actual balanced gains.

>more taxing
hasn't been bad for me, he recommends 3x5/2x8 for cutting

it does vex me that he is a fat mendacious fuck

ICF is too much volume.
It's literally SL plus exercises for every weakness you could imagine

SL is bad
ICF is polished bad

ICF simply disregards basic notions of programming and dumps a bunch of assistance exercises all at once because "bodybuilding" - even though it's a routine for beginners (compare it to Reg Park's and you'll see a big difference).
It has too much volume on everything and too little focus, which ends up being detrimental to progress, and just doesn't leave much space for the trainee to advance after it besides actually taking a step back (instead of a step forwards as you'd with SS).

The criticism I'll be posting next is on SL, but most of the same things apply for ICF. It does have some benefits over SL, though, such as instructing the trainee to use microplates as needed.

>At the end of the day, your results will depend more on your effort, consistency and perseverance
I'm aware of that. I think this is perfect time for me to start because I don't have anything to do for 5 months.

I'd like to maximize my gainz so I'm trying to find the perfect program.

I've never said it the best.
I've been reading quite a lot on this subject here on Veeky Forums, bb.com, and even r/fitness. A lot of people said that you can progress faster with ICF.

I don't know about that.
Those three(especially SS and SL) are often recommended and also All Pros and Fierce 5 (on bb.com)

It's 5x5 for bulking and that's what I need because I'm 5'10 and 61kg (134.48 Pounds (lb))

- SL has you start with babyweights. It will take you forever to actually start getting stronger. SS, on the other hand, tests you on the first workout and let's you kickstart progression

- SL has you add 2.5kg on every workout. This will make progression incredibly slow on the beginning, and incredibly hard after a month or two. SS, on the other hand, has you add as much as 8kg to your deadlift on the first few workouts, and it eventually lowers progression on certain lifts like the ohp and the bench to 1kg per workout. This means you will not get stuck on the 50kg-ohp-deload-loop everyone who does SL gets stuck on

- SL was "written" (copy pasted in a dumb manner and without any thought behind it) by a marketing team with 0 coaching experience, and is targeted towards couch potatoes. SS was written by an ex-professional athlete and a coach with over 3 decades of experience

- SL only has you work your floor pull 1.5 times per week. SS has you work floor pulls 3 times per week, 1.5 deadlifts (3x at the start) and 1.5 power cleans. This means you will get stronger on your deadlift doing SS, since you will be training it a lot more

- SL has you do barbell rows, SS has chinups. Chinups are a better back-builder as the range of motion for the lats is way longer. Not only that, but chinups will give you good biceps development, while rows won't as much. Only reason you should do rows instead of chinups as a beginner, is in case you can't do bodyweight chinups and the gym doesn't have an assistance machine or lat pulldown, and you're too lazy to do negative reps.

- It's way easier to finish 3x5 sets with perfect reps than 5x5 sets with perfect reps. Not only that, but doing 5x5 will exhaust you before the next lift

- SL tells you to deload too much. SS, on the other hand, only tells you to deload if it's 100% necessary

- SS trains both strength and power, and it trains your traps and upperback a lot more with the power clean

You're full of shit, user.

>user
That's trappy you fuck.

- SL has you start doing a fuckton of volume. SS has you start doing only as much volume as needed. This means that once progression starts getting harder, and your body gets used to the volume, you can add extra volume to SS to keep progression rolling further. With SL, you don't have anywhere to go besides actually lowering the volume to 3x5, which is counterproductive.

- SL was made to sell an app. SS was made to get you fuarking strong.

Only reason SL is a popular meme is because of marketing efforts. They launched a good mobile app when the market was still untapped, and that made it really popular among normies.
Not only that, but they paid a bunch of personalities of the fitness industry to shill for their program.

Rip, on the other hand, was pretty retarded when it comes to marketing and didn't put much effort into it, and only released a mobile app a few months ago, years too late. This means the only people doing SS were people who were lucky enough to join a gym with a SS coach, or did research and visited lifting forums. Marketing fail 101.

Over the years, a bunch of novices "graduated" from SL with slow progression, but they got ok-tier results and now recommend it all the time as if it's "as good as SS".

Thus, SL became a huge meme even though it's utterly awful.

You don't need to read the full SS book (even though it's great). Watch the videos where Rip teaches how to perform the lifts (youtube.com/user/artofmanliness/search?query=rippetoe) and read the our page on the program fitsticky.squarespace.com/starting-strength and you will be completely fine.

After three weeks or so, start doing your power cleans. It's very easy to learn and incredibly valuable for deadlift progression. You can learn how to power clean here fitsticky.squarespace.com/how-to/

>he doesn't use a script to make everyone on Veeky Forums "Anonymous"
Wew lad :^)

what routine for fat to cut/aesthetics?

Is T-rex meme is real ?
Thanx for the information tho.

S U I C I D E
U
I
C
I
D
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Doesn't seem like it worked user.

This looks like a "t-rex" to you?

pretty sure that's a dog

...

Wait, there's a SS app?

>starting gym next month

Nope,it doesnt.
But this guy is a long time lifter,and I am pretty sure he has done differrent programms than SS.

>SS is way better than SL
I don't hate you because you're trans, I hate you because you're an idiot.

Yes, TM.

>squats 3x week for like 6 months will give you huge legs
If this shit meme was true, you would also get huge arms from (bench) pressing 3x week. The volume is exactly the same.
>but you do diddlies too, those train legs too!
1) they train the entire body
2) you literally do 0.75 sets per week. Tiny volume.
And the program also calls for chinups and dips. And curls, and LTEs.


SS makes you a T-Rex is a meme perpetuated by shitposters who should be ashamed of themselves for tricking gullible newbies.


>but all the pictures
That's either just fat around their thighs (nobody can build naturally a lot of muscle in 6 months), or the user in the photos did not push themselves at all on the upper body excercises, or they did zero accessories, or they have poor hip width and fat placement genetics, or all of the above.

look at blaha and then carefully consider if this is the type of person you want to take life advice from

SL is shit dude. You're the idiot.

Thanks for the feedback,that shit is were fucking my mind for a very long time.

Trappy I want you to sit in my lap so that I can hold you tight and fondle your tits and noodle while my schlong hardens against your soft peachy cheeks.

SL is barely even different from SS the added volume doesn't hurt beginners.

You realize these programs are for doughy DYEL's who've never touched a weight before right? Almost anything would help them see progress.

You're blinded by the boipussy.

If you'd read the posts you'd actually understand a bit more about the differences between the two programs.

instead you're just being a meme fuck.

Good job user.

Debating over the finer details of beginner programs by saying that one is amazing while this slightly different one is utter shit is DYELthink at its finest.

>pls don't think guys just buy my app it's as good as SS I swear

Mehdi pls go

How long is forever?

I'm not even a proponent of SL (greyskull bro) I'm just saying that SS and SL are both perfectly fine for beginners and trappy is full of shit.

Ok mehdi I'm sure it's not you

Reminder nothing will ever fix this guys genetics

>5"7 at most
>looks like this

Please dear noob. Since you are just starting out you should watch some Elliot Hulse videos. Blaha is literally the biggest lying, childish, retarded, obese, piece of shit fitness youtuber out there. Please unsubscribe and stop feeding this troll piece of shit views.
Unless you want to look like this sad excuse for a human...

SS has you start at 3x5, which is pretty managable and lets you get used to the technique of the lifts while still applying a fair amount of pressure.

If you need to after 3-6 months (and you probably will by then because your noob gainz will run out) you can up it to 5x5 and still see progress (because of the added volume.) It also comes with a supporting cast of accessories and assists to the main lifts you can add in as you progress.

SL starts you out at 5x5 right from the start. 5x5 is about as much volume as any person can handle for an appreciable fraction of their 1RM. If you're an untrained DYEL phagotte, you're almost certainly not going to be able to maintain 5 clean reps for 5 sets right out the gate. That means your technique will break down, and you'll ingrain bad motor patterns. Not to mention when your noob gainz run out after 3-6 months, there's nowhere for you to fucking go except the purgatory of endless fucking deloads. You can't up volume at the weights you've been using. Dropping volume back to 3x5 will be counterproductive because you'll be doing less work and thus you won't stimulate any muscle growth (which is the only way to increase strength once you've maxed out your neurological adaptations.)

All of this applies x2 to ICF because its volume issue is even more retarded. If you Google around, you'll see that ALMOST ALL beginner programmes limit workouts to about 6 exercises, usually of 3x5 or 6x4 on the main lifts, with at most 2 sets for accessories.

Bro most of the posts in this thread are probably from Blaha shilling for himself. The guy is losing so much revenue, views and subscribers right now he is on meltdown mode. His made up bullshit disability is the only thing he's going to be able to live off of soon (government assistance) Guy is too scared to go get a job like the rest of us

Instead he'd rather steal 5x5 programs and modify them slightly by adding in some assistance exercises and call them his own. Keep in mind the guy is on STEROIDS, he admits to it, and he still look like this. He literally has the body of a 50 year old grandpa that used to lift 10 years ago and now eats too many big macs. That and he made up a story about how he is an ex mercenary when really he worked in a warehouse and did physical labor. He also made up that his dad was also a confirmed millionaire who did merc work too. He also thinks he has some special kind of DNA or blood or some shit (dragon blood) or whatever the fuck he claims to be.

The guy is a psychopath and a gigantic liar. Combine that with being a manlet and having some of the worst genetics and muscle insertions possible.

On the main point of the tread you're right: ICF is retarded because it piles on accessories in a way that is unsustainable for beginners.

Everything else you said is bullshit.

But again, even though SS and SL are both decent programs I recommend GSLP.

>I've been doing GSLP for 3 months and I know everything about lifting

I sort of wonder if he actually is/was on the gear he claims he's on. Considering he's been proven to lie about literally everything fucking else he's done.

Nah brah I'm doing PHAT now. When I started lifting I started on SS for 3 months and switched to GSLP for a half a year (that was 2.5 years ago, and I've bounced around programs a little bit since).

You're just projecting your DYELness because you've been brainwashed by a fat redneck and a skinnyfat dickgirl into their dogma.

>I'm doing PHAT now

Stopped reading there.

You talk a lot of science but why should I take advice from a weak faggot?