We know that sea people cause the Bronze Age Collapse and according to Mashkin one tribe was called Tursca, Maspero tied that with the name Etruscans ,logically.
Also, the Lydian theory about Etruscan origin is widely accepted, what do you think were other Sea People also from Lydia or other parts of Asia Minor?
Drop everything you know about the BAC
Were Etruscans to blame for the BAC?
Connor Wright
Levi Williams
>We know that sea people cause the Bronze Age Collapse
no. shit thread.
Austin Myers
It is the most widely accepted theory
Do you have any other?
Aiden Ross
>Also, the Lydian theory about Etruscan origin is widely accepted
No, it's really not, if you bothered to read any archaeological paper since Massimo Pallotino, the father of Etruscology.
>what do you think were other Sea People also from Lydia or other parts of Asia Minor?
No sea people has ever been identified aside from the Lukka from Lycia, South West Anatolia, everything else is speculation.
Connor Clark
What's the new accepted theory - Autochtonous Italian people?, Pelasgian branch? something else? - I didn't, I'm fairly new to Etruscans, trying to gather about them as much as I can
What are the sources for SW Anatolia to be their homeland?
Ayden Brown
Could easily have been the Veneti. Makes too much sense.
Angel James
>What's the new accepted theory?
It's not really knew, since Pallottino in the 60s it is accepted that they originated from the Villanovian culture, and there is a lot of evidence for is, while there isn't any material evidence for a migration from Anatolia/The Levant.
The Levantine influence takes place relatively late, from the 7th century bc onward, so any connection with the bronze age collapse is pure fantasy, since that took place during the 12th century bc.
The Levantine influence on Etruscans was mediated by Greeks and by Phoenicians too later on.
Justin Morgan
''One of the People of the Sea has landed in now Toscany (the Tyrrhenoi/Tursennoi/Tršw); They somehow merged with the local Villanova culture, as archaeological evidences show;
Villanovians' ancestors may have emigrated from the Black Sea area during the last three centuries of the second millenium B.C. in several waves. As such they are part of the Proto-Celts ("before the Celts"), not unlike other Mediterranean peoples such as Ligurian, Iberian, and Italian.''
''But they were not the first to settle in the area. For instance, we know that Sardinia is inhabited since the 7th millenium B.C. by non Indo-Europeans, a long time before the Shardans (a Sea People) came. Another exemple is the Terramarecoli or People of the Terramare in northern and central Italia.''
Just found this on a forum
Could Etruscans be a mixture of Vilanova and Tursca culture/people?
Is this legitimate about theVillanova, that they are proto-Celts from the Black Sea?
Charles Morris
>They somehow merged with the local Villanova culture, as archaeological evidences show;
There is no archaeological evidence for such a migration taking place, I'd like to see whatever evidence the guy who made that post presents.
>Villanovians' ancestors may have emigrated from the Black Sea area during the last three centuries of the second millenium B.C.
The Villanovian culture was influenced by the Centroeuropean culture known as urnfield culture, not by any black sea culture.
>s such they are part of the Proto-Celts ("before the Celts"),
Speculation
>not unlike other Mediterranean peoples such as Ligurian, Iberian, and Italian.''
Iberian was a Pre-Indoeuropean language, nothing to do with Celtic
>a long time before the Shardans (a Sea People) came.
There's no evidence for an outside migration/invasion in Sardinia during the second millenium bc, just as there isn't any for Etruria
>Could Etruscans be a mixture of Vilanova and Tursca culture/people?
No, consider that the "Tursha/Teresh" are nothing but a few names in Egyptian documents, we know next to nothing about them, anything said about them is speculation of the highest level.
We only know that they were foreigners:
>[Beginning of the victory that his majesty achieved in the land of Libya] -i, Ekwesh, Teresh, Lukka, Sherden, Shekelesh, Northerners coming from all lands.
This and a few other Egyptian documents mentioning they were part of the sea peoples confederation, plus a burial of a blonde individual that was named "Teresh" at El Amarna (Egypt) and beared Mycenean pottery are the only thing known about them.
Dominic Myers
who were the main transmitters of iron weapons technology? Who could have possibly occupied northern Anatolia ~12th century BC?
Ethan Robinson
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
>After the collapse of the Hittite Empire at the beginning of the twelfth century BC, the political vacuum in central-western Anatolia was filled by a wave of Indo-European migrants and "Sea Peoples", including the Phrygians, who established their kingdom with a capital eventually at Gordium.
en.wikipedia.org
Troad and their seafaring allies? The Anatolian hypothesis in this case appears promising, given the concurrence of famine in the region, and the Sea peoples are described as a confederation.
Luke Diaz
en.wikipedia.org
>Concerning the language spoken by the Iron Age Nordwestblock population, Kuhn speculated on linguistic affinity to the Venetic language, other hypotheses connect the Northwestblock with the Raetic ("Tyrsenian") or generic Centum Indo-European (Illyrian, "Old European"). Gysseling suspected an intermediate Belgian language between Germanic and Celtic, that might have been affiliated to Italic. According to Luc van Durme, a Belgian linguist, toponymic evidence to a former Celtic presence in the Low Countries is near to utterly absent.[4] Kuhn noted that since Proto-Indo-European (PIE) /b/ was very rare, and since this PIE /b/, via Grimm's law, is the main source of regularly inherited /p/'s in words in Germanic languages (except after fricatives, e.g. *sp-), the many words with /p/'s which do occur must have some other language as source. Similarly, in Celtic, PIE /p/ disappeared and in regularly inherited words only reappeared in p-Celtic languages as a result of proto-Celtic *kʷ becoming *p. All this taken together means that any word starting with a /p/ in a Germanic language which is not evidently borrowed from either Latin or a p-Celtic language (such as Gaulish) must be a loan from another language, and these words Kuhn ascribes to the Nordwestblock language.
FUCKING BELGIANS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Justin Sanders
proto-Illyrians?
>the bows of the ships were shaped in the form of a serpents head
any similarities to reports of the sea peoples? Well would you look at that.
>The Liburnians were renowned seafarers dominating the Adriatic and Ionian Sea from the start of the 1st millennium to the 5th century BC. The Romans knew them principally as a people addicted to piracy.
>The Illyrians were often referred to as pirates, raiding Greek and Roman vessels. Illyrian's indulgence in piracy was one that brought them infamy and invited their downfall. Their rugged broken coast with its screen of islands formed a perfect base from which their light and speedy little to attack unwary ships.
Wyatt Cooper
pic related, a Liburnian ship. Note the similarities in it's bow to those pictured by the Egyptians.
Eli Rodriguez
Transmitters of iron technology?
What are you talking about?
Asher Bennett
Those protomes look quite different, no, the protomes of the sea peoples' ships are two, two duck heads, similar to the motif recurring in urnfield, Myceneab and Bronze/iron age Italy's art
Daniel Carter
The ships could evolve, I mean the BAC was
in 12th century - and this ship represents a Liburnian ship from 1000-500BC
Dominic Sanders
Yes, but then again, there is no direct connection with the sea peoples' invasion of the Levant and an Illyrian presence, while there is a connection between Aegean people migrating to the Levant (Cyprus, Cilicia, Palestine, Syria) and the sea peoples' invading those places, there is even some evidence for a much smaller South Italic/Central Mediterranean presence in the Levant during the same period (pottery, Italic fibulae, looms and Italic weapons such as the Cetona/Allerona Naue II sword and the Thapsos swords popping up in the Levant, and viceversa prehistoric Italians acquiring knowledge and goods from the Aegean and the Eastern Mediterranean).
However, to my knowledge, there is no material evidence for an Illyrian or Balkanian presence in either South Anatolia, the Syrian-Palestine coast, Egypt or Cyprus during that period.
Kayden Gomez
Do you think the north western Anatolians are a good candidate?
Samuel Gutierrez
If by North west you mean Troy and Ephesus then maybe, along with Lycians, Greeks and some others, certainty Lycians
Camden Nelson
> 4 and
the fuck does that mean